Variations of our relationship with the US across the country

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by aastra

We watched the KING/KIRO/KOMO news and local programs at least as much as we watched the Victoria/Vancouver stuff. Lori Matsukawa, Steve Raible, Jeff Renner, Steve Pool, Jean Enersen, Aaron Brown... these are household names in BC. Dave Niehaus! We weren't necessarily rooting for the Mariners (they aren't really the home team in BC the way the Seahawks are and the Supersonics were) but we watched the Mariners broadcasts a lot. Local shows like J.P. Patches, King 5's Evening, Almost Live...

ah yes I remember all those seattle shows and hosts and news people, was quite sad when Kathi Goertzen died a couple years ago, i grew up watching her on the news

do u remember boomerang? I watched that every sunday early in the morning, it was an old seattle shot show for kids in the 80's

• Video Link

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by Urbanguy

I think that Canadians have also been the top foreign buyers of property in Hawaii (yep even more than the Japanese) for a while now too.

Yup, they'll often tell you there that it was Canadians who have been saving their bacon buy buying properties.

Originally Posted by Acajack

You may well be right, but people in eastern Canada still see it that way.

That's true, it's the perception. It was mine too, until I started looking into it.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I often explain to people that Watertown NY is like the Kapuskasing of the United States.

Syracuse is like Sudbury.

I don't think those are great comparisons. I would say Sudbury's best counterpart in the US would be Charleston, West Virginia. It seems to have more in common with Appalachia.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

I don't think those are great comparisons. I would say Sudbury's best counterpart in the US would be Charleston, West Virginia. It seems to have more in common with Appalachia.

As a twin city, perhaps. But I was talking more about its role and image within the country.

Charleston is way too small within the U.S. (relative to Sudbury's visibility within Canada), whereas most Americans will have heard of Syracuse.

Like most Canadians have heard of Sudbury. It's seen as a place that has "stuff", but most people still wouldn't want to live there.

And both places are seen as a bit of a transition point between the mainstream heartland of their respective countries and the boonies/wilderness.

[SaskScraper]

..Just throwing in my 2 cents into the discussion..
My own personal family relationship with USA is having 2nd in 3rd cousins etc from Kansas, Oklahoma, & Texas visiting back & forth. Our families all came from Europe a century ago and b-lined it to the Plains (Prairies) just passing thru the eastern sea board to where our families live now, agricultural background with ranching and grain farming in both nations.

Living closer to the US border than most Canadians means to me, crossing the border to go shopping or heading to USA especially Western States & Hawaii more often than maybe the general Canadian population i'm gathering. Phoenix is a huge draw especially for sports fans that want to see any of the 4 most major professional sports leagues in America. All of my Canadian family & friends would never consider seeing NHL in Canada when you can go see favourite teams play against Coyotes in Glendale for best seats and $ value. All of the my MLB, NBA, NFL & College football live games I've seen have been in Cali or Phoenix or Texas.

Probably the biggest reason so many Western Canadians like Phoenix is that the weather is reliably sunny, dry (best weather is during colder season in Canada) and zero chance to have to board up property during seasonal hurricanes other snowbird's properties in the east have to do. Its economical for everything including property, food, entertainment & cheaper flights than to any where in eastern part of continent (especially with Allegiant Air being <$200 round trip out of Great Falls, MT).

My area tends to have a closer tie into US culture than most Canadians, I have a feeling.. even our nearest tv affiliates in the States seem to try to cater to Canadians on the Prairies (our local PBS station in Washington broadcasts as being a joint Spokane/Coeur d'alene/Calgary/Edmonton affiliate).
..But there is a couple distinct differences between us & Americans, such as health care (quality & how prompt vs being universal) Schools, Military & some cultural values we hold strong.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Acajack

As a twin city, perhaps. But I was talking more about its role and image within the country.

Charleston is way too small within the U.S. (relative to Sudbury's visibility within Canada), whereas most Americans will have heard of Syracuse.

Like most Canadians have heard of Sudbury. It's seen as a place that has "stuff", but most people still wouldn't want to live there.

And both places are seen as a bit of a transition point between the mainstream heartland of their respective countries and the boonies/wilderness.

Would you say that small town Northern Ontario is more sophisticated then small town America?..Getting back to Walmart study when they moved into Canada 20 years ago..
I would say that Hearst or Kap would be in comparison to Mesena or Water town...Sudbury wins hands down over Syracuse..Like you stated already..Even though Syracuse is a much larger center then Sudbury, their respective roles are similar.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by SaskScraper

..Just throwing in my 2 cents into the discussion..
My own personal family relationship with USA is having 2nd in 3rd cousins etc from Kansas, Oklahoma, & Texas visiting back & forth. Our families all came from Europe a century ago and b-lined it to the Plains (Prairies) just passing thru the eastern sea board to where our families live now, agricultural background with ranching and grain farming in both nations.

Living closer to the US border than most Canadians means to me, crossing the border to go shopping or heading to USA especially Western States & Hawaii more often than maybe the general Canadian population i'm gathering. Phoenix is a huge draw especially for sports fans that want to see any of the 4 most major professional sports leagues in America. All of my Canadian family & friends would never consider seeing NHL in Canada when you can go see favourite teams play against Coyotes in Glendale for best seats and $ value. All of the my MLB, NBA, NFL & College football live games I've seen have been in Cali or Phoenix or Texas.

Probably the biggest reason so many Western Canadians like Phoenix is that the weather is reliably sunny, dry (best weather is during colder season in Canada) and zero chance to have to board up property during seasonal hurricanes other snowbird's properties in the east have to do. Its economical for everything including property, food, entertainment & cheaper flights than to any where in eastern part of continent (especially with Allegiant Air being <$200 round trip out of Great Falls, MT).

My area tends to have a closer tie into US culture than most Canadians, I have a feeling.. even our nearest tv affiliates in the States seem to try to cater to Canadians on the Prairies (our local PBS station in Washington broadcasts as being a joint Spokane/Coeur d'alene/Calgary/Edmonton affiliate).
..But there is a couple distinct differences between us & Americans, such as health care (quality & how prompt vs being universal) Schools, Military & some cultural values we hold strong.

Although we have no family in the states, being involved in the purebred cattle industry means that we know a lot of rural plains americans. Except for health care we are pretty much the same. And even on the health front there are calls for more universal care. The governor of Montana has been looking at copying parts of the Saskatchewan way of providing health care to his citizens.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Razor

Would you say that small town Northern Ontario is more sophisticated then small town America?..Getting back to Walmart study when they moved into Canada 20 years ago..

Is that Walmart study a true story or an urban legend?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Razor

...Sudbury wins hands down over Syracuse..Like you stated already..Even though Syracuse is a much larger center then Sudbury, their respective roles are similar.

I hinted at this about their respective roles and visibility within their countries. Not sure that means that Sudbury is way more sophisticated than Syracuse (if that's what you're saying).

[kool maudit]

while both are so far from being london or whatever that it's ultimately a bit comical, i am not sure how sudbury "wins hands down" over syracuse in terms of "sophistication".

syracuse has a respected, 181-year-old medical school and a large, regional university (and cornell is in nearby ithaca). syracuse university's endowment is USD 1.2 billion compared to laurentian's CAD 143 million.

it has a 75-member symphony orchestra which was for a time directed by kazuyoshi akiyama (who also directed the vancouver and edmonton symphonies, showing his comparative level in canada).

it maintains an i.m pei-designed art museum housing an 11,000-work private collection including works by jackson pollock, eastman johnson and other renowned u.s. artists. it is a provincial museum, surely, but a dignified one, and it far outstrips the art gallery of sudbury.

it has rail connections to new york city (several times daily) and daily service to chicago, cleveland and boston.

syracuse may have declined from its prewar zenith, but it is a much more substantial commercial, cultural and architectural entity than is sudbury.

i think canadians think too often about things like "people of wal-mart" and not enough about the lives of people like violinists in the syracuse orchestra, curators at the everson museum and professors at syracuse university.

the united states has its problems, but it is not some sort of joke or anachronism. it is home to millions and millions of talented, educated people and the idea that its provincial cities are nothing but decayed hog-wallows full of ignorant rubes is laughable.

who do we think we are?

[Doug]

Originally Posted by esquire

Phoenix has a strong resort-town feel... not unlike, say, Palm Springs or West Palm Beach. It just doesn't translate into real urbanity. And they're totally OK with that... it's just part of the deal.

Phoenix is in a constant state of reinvention as it continues to grow rapidly, albeit at the slowest pace in 20 years. Lots of good stuff happening in the older parts of Scottsdale for example. The biggest difference between Phoenix and resort towns is that Phoenix has an actual economy. For example, Intel is a major employer and Avnet is based there.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by esquire

Not that Hawaii isn't worth it, but I did find it very expensive when I visited Maui earlier this year. Groceries are almost northern reserve prices, like US$8 for a gallon of milk at Safeway... food everywhere is expensive, as is gas plus whatever else you need.

Accommodations are pricy too, with even basic Days Inn type places clocking in at US$200 a night or more on the booking websites (We got around this by renting a condo which delivered way more bang for the buck.) And that's not even getting into the flights which get close to what it costs to fly to Europe from Manitoba.

Unless you are the master backpacker type who sleeps on the beach and drinks rainwater, you're going to spend way more in Hawaii as compared to just getting a $999 all inclusive package for a week in Mexico or Cuba or wherever.

The key to Hawaii is Costco. Prices there are competitive and often lower than what you would find in Canada. The grocery stores proximal to tourist areas tend to rip people off. Many also have discount cards only offered to locals. You can usually lie and say you are military deployed there for several months and the store will usually give you a card.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by LFRENCH

sounds almost like some arthritic version of Disneyland, where some old fossils from Regina can bath their wrinkly skin in the sun like a bunch of lizards....

I don't really get the attraction..... at all.

Not many seniors hike the Grand Canyon. Phoenix is about the outdoors, not the vampire, stay out late, party scene.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

while both are so far from being london or whatever that it's ultimately a bit comical, i am not sure how sudbury "wins hands down" over syracuse in terms of "sophistication".

syracuse has a respected, 181-year-old medical school and a large, regional university (and cornell is in nearby ithaca). syracuse university's endowment is USD 1.2 billion compared to laurentian's CAD 143 million.

it has a 75-member symphony orchestra which was for a time directed by kazuyoshi akiyama (who also directed the vancouver and edmonton symphonies, showing his comparative level in canada).

it maintains an i.m pei-designed art museum housing an 11,000-work private collection including works by jackson pollock, eastman johnson and other renowned u.s. artists. it is a provincial museum, surely, but a dignified one, and it far outstrips the art gallery of sudbury.

it has rail connections to new york city (several times daily) and daily service to chicago, cleveland and boston.

syracuse may have declined from its prewar zenith, but it is a much more substantial commercial, cultural and architectural entity than is sudbury.

i think canadians think too often about things like "people of wal-mart" and not enough about the lives of people like violinists in the syracuse orchestra, curators at the everson museum and professors at syracuse university.

the united states has its problems, but it is not some sort of joke or anachronism. it is home to millions and millions of talented, educated people and the idea that its provincial cities are nothing but decayed hog-wallows full of ignorant rubes is laughable.

who do we think we are?

The post I wish I had written.

[kwoldtimer]

You and me both.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The post I wish I had written.

Yes. Canadians dump on the US way too much. We're a fine country, but in terms of cultural achievement, the U.S. blows us away and always has. Canadian culture had a flowering in the 60s/70s, and then somehow settled back into relative mediocrity. (Now, don't start hauling out all the great Canadian bands/writers/filmmakers/etc, because I know they exist. I mean broadly.)

We've also completely betrayed our own self-image as a cuddlier, more liberal version of the U.S. (My favourite example among many: Our main nation-building projects now involve building oil pipelines and enabling the resource-pillaging of the Arctic, even as big bad America pursues ever-more aggressive renewable energy strategies.)

Say what you will about the sometimes delusional egotism of American nationalism, at least there's a critical mass of strivers in that country (and other countries, for that matter). I always imagine Canada is on the brink of breaking out of its cozy love affair with the status quo, but as I get older I wonder if that's just too entrenched in who we are, historically.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Yes. Canadians dump on the US way too much. We're a fine country, but in terms of cultural achievement, the U.S. blows us away and always has. Canadian culture had a flowering in the 60s/70s, and then somehow settled back into relative mediocrity. (Now, don't start hauling out all the great Canadian bands/writers/filmmakers/etc, because I know they exist. I mean broadly.)

We've also completely betrayed our own self-image as a cuddlier, more liberal version of the U.S. (My favourite example among many: Our main nation-building projects now involve building oil pipelines and enabling the resource-pillaging of the Arctic, even as big bad America pursues ever-more aggressive renewable energy strategies.)

Say what you will about the sometimes delusional egotism of American nationalism, at least there's a critical mass of strivers in that country (and other countries, for that matter). I always imagine Canada is on the brink of breaking out of its cozy love affair with the status quo, but as I get older I wonder if that's just too entrenched in who we are, historically.

It's obviously related to the fact that Canada as a whole spends too much time and energy thinking about what it isn't and not enough about what it is.

Also, the idea that people and places get some kind of automatic "premium" (over you-know-who) simply by virtue of being Canadian, is quite comical.

Being "assumed to be" nice, smart, open-minded or sophisticated simply because of "Canadianity"... oh my...

[le calmar]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

while both are so far from being london or whatever that it's ultimately a bit comical, i am not sure how sudbury "wins hands down" over syracuse in terms of "sophistication".

syracuse has a respected, 181-year-old medical school and a large, regional university (and cornell is in nearby ithaca). syracuse university's endowment is USD 1.2 billion compared to laurentian's CAD 143 million.

it has a 75-member symphony orchestra which was for a time directed by kazuyoshi akiyama (who also directed the vancouver and edmonton symphonies, showing his comparative level in canada).

it maintains an i.m pei-designed art museum housing an 11,000-work private collection including works by jackson pollock, eastman johnson and other renowned u.s. artists. it is a provincial museum, surely, but a dignified one, and it far outstrips the art gallery of sudbury.

it has rail connections to new york city (several times daily) and daily service to chicago, cleveland and boston.

syracuse may have declined from its prewar zenith, but it is a much more substantial commercial, cultural and architectural entity than is sudbury.

i think canadians think too often about things like "people of wal-mart" and not enough about the lives of people like violinists in the syracuse orchestra, curators at the everson museum and professors at syracuse university.

the united states has its problems, but it is not some sort of joke or anachronism. it is home to millions and millions of talented, educated people and the idea that its provincial cities are nothing but decayed hog-wallows full of ignorant rubes is laughable.

who do we think we are?

Amen to that. I wouldn't even compare Sudbury to Syracuse. Canadian cities punch above their weight most of the time, but I would disagree with this particular comparison.

[esquire]

Syracuse and Sudbury are two totally different things. Syracuse's metro pop is 663,000 with many people within a few hours' drive, Sudbury's is 160,000 with few people in the surrounding area. Syracuse is also much older.

But that said, there is some general truth to the idea that if you take a Canadian and an American city of relatively equal size, the Canadian one will generally play a more important role as a regional hub than the American one... for instance, Regina at 210K is a fairly significant city in Canada while Fargo ND at 228K is practically unknown to anyone who isn't from there. Although that said, they are probably somewhat similar when it comes to levels of what we're calling "sophistication", with a roughly equivalent roster of educational, corporate and cultural institutions.

[Acajack]

I think esquire and le calmar are right and you can run with that theory a lot of the time (big fish in small pond vs. small fish in big pond) but still, it's a weird parallel universe that places Thunder Bay ahead of Santa Fe simply because the former happens to be in Canada.