Variations of our relationship with the US across the country

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by esquire

Yeah, my wife has family in Brandon and they go to Minot a few times a year to do all of those things.

Mentally, ND doesn't seem very far away... I know that to someone from Toronto or Vancouver 2.5 or 3.5 hours seems like a hell of a long drive, but we're used to long drives as really nothing is close out here... if you leave Brandon or Winnipeg by car, you're basically committing to at least an hour drive to get anywhere of interest. (Sorry, Steinbach )

Its funny how we in the Prairies never really talk about miles (or km) when we talk about travel. Its always by time.
I remember as a kid Winnipeg used to by 3hrs from Killarney. Now with improved cars and highways (debatable) it is now down to 2!

[lio45]

Originally Posted by le calmar

It's been a while since I last visited all the cities above, so I admit I might be biased in my judgment. Maybe I will change my mind when I visit them again.

It depends. If you visit them again after a while of seeing villages in Montérégie, Centre-du-Qc, even the Townships, you'll again say "wow! St. Johnsbury is gorgeous!!!"

On the other hand, if you pass there after having been through a string of the nicest central VT/NH villages, they (places like Newport, Barton, St. Johnsbury) won't stand out as particularly nice.

But that's just because the standard is that high.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by le calmar

And I really thought VT was the richer State. From my observations, the Adirondacks appear to be a anomaly in Upstate NY. Everything from Lake Placid to Saratoga Springs appears to be rich. But leave this area and you get the opposite (Rust belt cities, Albany, most of the towns along the Canadian border)

NY is among the richest states, but as they often say, it's really the tale of two states ("downstate" / everything else).

Someone based in southern Quebec who likes to explore and go off the beaten path (like you or I) in round trips that take less than a day will certainly want to reach the conclusion that NY is a poor state, but the amount of wealth in NYC is so high that it brings the state in the top five or something like that.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

Its funny how we in the Prairies never really talk about miles (or km) when we talk about travel. Its always by time.
I remember as a kid Winnipeg used to by 3hrs from Killarney. Now with improved cars and highways (debatable) it is now down to 2!

We only talk in time here too. If somebody told me something was even 20km away, I have no idea how much that is. Obviously I can figure out how far away that is timewise, but to immediately picture what's 20km away from me right now, I can't do.

And I wouldn't say 2.5 hours is that much of a long drive for us here either. Lots of people go on impromptu day trips to Seattle which is around 3 hours depending on the border lineups, which can last hours.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

And I wouldn't say 2.5 hours is that much of a long drive for us here either. Lots of people go on impromptu day trips to Seattle which is around 3 hours depending on the border lineups, which can last hours.

At least you can use NEXUS out there to cut the wait time... the MB 75/I 29 border crossing has, to my knowledge, NEXUS lanes only during weekday bankers hours when there is generally hardly a lineup at all. They are never open on weekends when you actually get a good size crowd (especially on long weekends when it can take hours here too).

[1overcosc]

Northeast New York, around Syracuse/Watertown is one of the blindest areas of the states about Canada despite being right there. Most people in Ogdensburg, NY, which is literally on the Canadian border, have never even heard of Ottawa before, despite the fact that it's only an hour drive away and by far the closest big city to their homes.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Northeast New York, around Syracuse/Watertown is one of the blindest areas of the states about Canada despite being right there. Most people in Ogdensburg, NY, which is literally on the Canadian border, have never even heard of Ottawa before, despite the fact that it's only an hour drive away and by far the closest big city to their homes.

That's just crazy. And to think I was surprised when waitresses and bartenders who IDed me in Minneapolis would occasionally ask "What's Manitoba?"

[SignalHillHiker]

That's one complaint I've heard about the U.S. a few times - that it can feel suffocating after being there a while because everything is all-U.S.-all-the-time and you're left completely disconnected from the rest of the world. It makes my mother a bit stir crazy after a few weeks, even when she's in NYC (and almost immediately when she's in Florida).

I don't know... I can't imagine it's any more inward-focused and isolated than here. People must be getting their impressions solely from the difference in topics covered by the evening news.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by esquire

At least you can use NEXUS out there to cut the wait time... the MB 75/I 29 border crossing has, to my knowledge, NEXUS lanes only during weekday bankers hours when there is generally hardly a lineup at all. They are never open on weekends when you actually get a good size crowd (especially on long weekends when it can take hours here too).

Yeah but a surprisingly low number of people have it and I'm not sure why.

As far as Vancouver's relationship with the States, it's very strong and predominantly one way. For the most part, it consists of frequent trips for cheap gas, alcohol, tobacco and food. The Costco in Bellingham's parking lot is around 80% BC plates on the weekend and its gas lineup waits can be over half an hour long. The effect is magnified the closer you live to the border. I live in a border municipality and I can't remember the last time my parents filled up gas in Canada. Oh, and shipping packages to US border town post offices is very popular to get around Canadian shipping costs. It's like how Procrastinational said, the relationship is for the most part dependent on buying cheap goods there. Lots of people go there every week for food and gas, so going down doesn't seem at all "special."

Popular trips a bit further are Seattle and Portland. Seattle Premium outlets are a big draw, and the city itself is popular as a weekend destination. Seahawks games and to a lesser degree Mariner games (when the Blue Jays are in town) are popular too. Portland is also popular for shopping since Oregon doesn't have a sales tax but of course doesn't have as strong a relationship as Seattle. Actual tourism is for the most part centered on the west, so major cities in California and Las Vegas are the ones you hear the most about people going, sometimes as road trips. Phoenix definitely doesn't seem to have a strong place in people's mindset here as it does in the Prairies. I'm not sure if I've even heard it mentioned at all before.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Phoenix definitely doesn't seem to have a strong place in people's mindset here as it does in the Prairies. I'm not sure if I've even heard it mentioned at all before.

There is a noticeable prairie presence in Phoenix. I went most recently about a year and a half ago and I was surprised by how many people I saw wearing some manner of clothing that identified them as being from Alberta/Sask/Manitoba. I mean, why PHX as opposed to, say, San Diego, or Palm Springs or some other place? It's a nice place but it's odd that it has become such a popular hub. Did that many people from here buy cheap condos during the property bust or what?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Northeast New York, around Syracuse/Watertown is one of the blindest areas of the states about Canada despite being right there. Most people in Ogdensburg, NY, which is literally on the Canadian border, have never even heard of Ottawa before, despite the fact that it's only an hour drive away and by far the closest big city to their homes.

I can confirm this, though it might be a bit of an exaggeration for Ogdensburg which sits right on the border, and for example most of the radio stations you get there are from Ottawa.

But certainly by the time you reach Watertown (not that far from O'Burg and only 90 minutes from Ottawa), most people are totally oblivious. Their necks don't seem to turn in the direction allowing them to gaze northwards!

And by the time you get to Syracuse... well you can imagine.

They certainly know the word "Canada" but it seems kind of like an amorphous blob to them.

You can imagine how shocked they are when we tell them that they can leave home in mid-afternoon and have dinner in a place where everything is in French: schools, police, Home Depot, cinemas, colleges, courts, McDonald's, etc. "Noooooooo waaaaaaaaaay!"

Interestingly enough if you then cross the Adirondacks and from the I-87 corridor going all the way to the Atlantic coast most people are much much more aware of Canada. It's probably the "Frenchness" that stands out for them in this area and there are a lot of exchanges between New England and Quebec, and also between Montreal and all along the I-87 down to NYC. Many people in this area (Northeastern NY, plus New England) are also of French Canadian origin.

Strangely enough, for all its navel-gazing reputation, people in NYC are far more aware of Canada/Quebec/Montreal than people in places like Syracuse are.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by esquire

There is a noticeable prairie presence in Phoenix. I went most recently about a year and a half ago and I was surprised by how many people I saw wearing some manner of clothing that identified them as being from Alberta/Sask/Manitoba. I mean, why PHX as opposed to, say, San Diego, or Palm Springs or some other place? It's a nice place but it's odd that it has become such a popular hub. Did that many people from here buy cheap condos during the property bust or what?

I've actually always wondered this myself. Las Vegas is closer, also in the desert and also with cheap real estate. Albuquerque even. Why Phoenix?

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Phoenix definitely doesn't seem to have a strong place in people's mindset here as it does in the Prairies. I'm not sure if I've even heard it mentioned at all before.

Same here. I think it's just a given for Newfoundlanders that vacation destinations be coastal. The idea of going into the interior of the continent for anything other than work is a bit of a non-starter. Large lakes/rivers (for example, Toronto) and Europe seem to be the only stand-out exceptions.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

That's one complaint I've heard about the U.S. a few times - that it can feel suffocating after being there a while because everything is all-U.S.-all-the-time and you're left completely disconnected from the rest of the world.

Just spending a few minutes on most anywhere in the English language internet is proof enough of that.

[Acajack]

Oh yeah, Quebec also has a thing with Las Vegas ever since a bunch of acts from here helped rejuvenate the entertainment scene in that city: Cirque du Soleil, Céline Dion, André-Philippe Gagnon...

It wasn't really much of a thing to go down there but over the past decade or two it's evolved into a very common vacation pursuit to go down to Vegas and while you're there to take in shows from Quebec entertainment biggies.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Same here. I think it's just a given for Newfoundlanders that vacation destinations be coastal. The idea of going into the interior of the continent for anything other than work is a bit of a non-starter. Large lakes/rivers (for example, Toronto) and Europe seem to be the only stand-out exceptions.

I don't know if it's about the coast, I think it's more proximity for us. Las Vegas for example is extremely popular, a yearly destination for some people, and to a much lesser degree Sacramento. It might seem far, but places like Vegas and LA can be done by car with just one overnight stay halfway. Other places that would be worth visiting in the interior, like Denver for example, would likely be popular too if they weren't so far. Or if closer places like Boise were bigger.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

I've actually always wondered this myself. Las Vegas is closer, also in the desert and also with cheap real estate. Albuquerque even. Why Phoenix?

Marketing?

[SignalHillHiker]

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[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Interestingly enough if you then cross the Adirondacks and from the I-87 corridor going all the way to the Atlantic coast most people are much much more aware of Canada.

Probably just due to the importance of the closest city over the border; Montreal is a much bigger pole of attraction for the NE US than Ottawa.

[Jay in Cowtown]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

I've actually always wondered this myself. Las Vegas is closer, also in the desert and also with cheap real estate. Albuquerque even. Why Phoenix?

Houses are/were cheaper in Phoenix... and the weather is actually better in Phoenix than Vegas or the west coast in the winter.

I know a ridiculous amount of people that own houses in the Phoenix metro. I was just down there last weekend at a buddy's house for a golf getaway. Aside from the Okanagan I'd definitely say Phoenix is Alberta's second home!