Variations of our relationship with the US across the country

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by middeljohn

In Edmonton I've actually met quite a few people who have never left the country before.

You say that like it's really weird or something. I've never left the country and I'm Ontario born and raised.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Beedok

You say that like it's really weird or something. I've never left the country and I'm Ontario born and raised.

I know people born and raised in Ottawa who've never been to the U.S. I also know Ottawans who've never been to Montreal.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

And when American soldiers are in port it's always a popular visit. They offer tours of military vessels and have some of the sharpest uniforms of any regularly visiting country, second only to the Russians in my impression.

Oh man, don't ever say that to a sailor or a marine, at the very least you will get a very annoyed look from them.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

People in Quebec have relationships with places like Plattsburgh, Burlington (and in the case of my region, Syracuse) that are based on cross-border shopping. There are also tourism-based relations with Vermont, New Hampshire, the Maine coast, Boston, NYC, the Jersey Shore and of course the area around Ft Lauderdale in Florida.

It's been nearly 15 years since I last flew from Montreal. Everyone I know goes to Burlington or Plattsburgh as well.

It's true that the relationship is mainly commercial. (Though one can also say nearly the same thing about the relationship with our East-West neighbors...)

I caught by pure chance the meeting between PM Couillard and the Governor of Vermont on the news a few weeks ago and I recall that I was surprised by a statistic that I learned on there... I think it was either that Quebec is Vermont's single largest trading partner, or maybe that VT is 2nd for Quebec after Ontario... It entered one ear and exited the other, as we say, but I remember recalling "wow, I'm surprised the volume of exchange is that high". (Compared to other neighbors.)

Selling electricity probably helps inflate the numbers (it's normal that it would count)...

[GreaterMontréal]

NY state is Quebec biggest partner.
According to Statistics Canada, New York and Quebec had $8 billion in bilateral trade in 2011, making the state the province’s largest trading partner.
10% of international exports.
Québec is New York’s 13th largest export market, ahead of India, Brazil and Russia.

[lio45]

Then the bit of info that I probably heard then was that Quebec was Vermont's single largest trading partner, before NY or any New England state.

[middeljohn]

I heard before that Ontario is Michigan's largest trading partner, which would make sense.

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by middeljohn

I heard before that Ontario is Michigan's largest trading partner, which would make sense.

Ontario is Quebec's largest trading partner, and Quebec is Ontario's largest trading partner.

here is a tendency to underestimate the economic relationship between Quebec and Ontario. However, Canada's two most populous provinces represent a market of 18 million people. Their joint GDP was nearly $890 billion in 2008, making them the fourth- largest economic area in North America, behind California, Texas and New York State.
Ontario was the destination of 61 per cent of Quebec's exports to the rest of Canada. Quebec received 69 per cent of its Canadian goods from Ontario.
http://www.iedm.org/fr/3054-quebec-o...l-good-for-all

now 20 million, joint GDP of over $1 trillion in 2014.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

Ontario is Quebec's largest trading partner

FWIW, that's not mutually exclusive with Ontario being Michigan's largest trading partner as well.

Obviously there's probably a lot more trade between Michigan and the rest of the Midwest than between Michigan and Canada but since the former is split between a bunch of separate jurisdictions, while on the other hand in the latter case "Canada" to Michigan is basically "Ontario", it's not surprising at all that it would take the #1 position.

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by lio45

FWIW, that's not mutually exclusive with Ontario being Michigan's largest trading partner as well.

Obviously there's probably a lot more trade between Michigan and the rest of the Midwest than between Michigan and Canada but since the former is split between a bunch of separate jurisdictions, while on the other hand in the latter case "Canada" to Michigan is basically "Ontario", it's not surprising at all that it would take the #1 position.

*within Canada

[middeljohn]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

Ontario is Quebec's largest trading partner, and Quebec is Ontario's largest trading partner.

here is a tendency to underestimate the economic relationship between Quebec and Ontario. However, Canada's two most populous provinces represent a market of 18 million people. Their joint GDP was nearly $890 billion in 2008, making them the fourth- largest economic area in North America, behind California, Texas and New York State.
Ontario was the destination of 61 per cent of Quebec's exports to the rest of Canada. Quebec received 69 per cent of its Canadian goods from Ontario.
http://www.iedm.org/fr/3054-quebec-o...l-good-for-all

now 20 million, joint GDP of over $1 trillion in 2014.

Very interesting, didn't know it's that significant! Ontario and Quebec are also the only two provinces that still have a significant manufacturing based economy. With the US dollar having gained so much over the Canadian dollar, I wonder if Canadian exports to the US are going to be significantly higher this year versus previous years. That along with beaper transportation costs would at least suggest that.

[GreaterMontréal]

Quebec, february 2015,
the cumulative export volume for the first two months of 2015 was 13.2% above its level for the same period in 2014 (up 7.3% in Canada).
Exports to Europe rose 23.4% in February and accounted for 12.9% of Québec exports.
Exports to Asia were up 57.0% and accounted for 8.9% of Québec exports.


For 2014, they were up 10.9%. This is the biggest annual increase for Quebec since the end of the 1990s;

[hipster duck]

Growing up in Ontario, people had a bit of a smug, superiority complex about the United States. This is probably because the cities immediately across the border were among the biggest failures in the Rust Belt: Detroit, Buffalo, Flint, etc. In Central/Eastern Ontario, where I grew up, the nearest border crossing was over the Ivy Lea bridge, and the area on the other side in Upstate New York was about as backward as they come. Crossing into the US from Ontario seems to confirm every negative American stereotype there is, whether urban or rural.

Here in BC, people have a close association with the border, but they don't have negative connotations of the immediate area across the border because Washington state is quite economically rich. You aren't presented with the ghettos of Detroit or Buffalo or the scary, Deliverance/prison-industrial complex rural backwaterland of Upstate NY.

A question I would pose for Canadians is whether it's generally true that when you cross into the US, you cross into an area that is relatively poorer and more backward. Aside from coastal BC, I think this is generally the case.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

A question I would pose for Canadians is whether it's generally true that when you cross into the US, you cross into an area that is relatively poorer and more backward.

I think it's true everywhere. Generally speaking, the land and climate is close to being the best (from a Canadian point of view) while close to being the worst (from an American point of view) so it would be surprising to have it any other way.

Even in BC it's probably true. Vancouver is the most expensive part of Canada's west coast by far, northern Washington isn't -- at all.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by lio45

Even in BC it's probably true. Vancouver is the most expensive part of Canada's west coast by far, northern Washington isn't -- at all.

For most Vancouverites, the area across the border is psychologically associated with the I-5 corridor and a straight shot to Seattle. Most Vancouverites would generally agree that Seattle is a respectable city. Some may rate it lower than Vancouver, or higher, but it's generally compared.

Most Torontonians would scoff at a comparison with Buffalo.

[esquire]

Manitobans don't have a great connection with the region immediately below us in the US. To borrow Acajack's description, it's very superficial.

Of course, every single Winnipegger has been down to Fargo or Grand Forks, ND, and a good many Winnipeggers like to take the 7 hour drive down to Minneapolis for shopping and entertainment. But there are really few connections beyond that type of "weekend getaway" kind of thing... familial connections are generally minimal (as compared to, say, Sask, where virtually everyone here has a relative), not many people go to school down there unless it's on an athletic scholarship and vice-versa, there are few regionally-focused businesses.

On the whole though I'd say we think about them more than they think about us, even when it comes to smaller places like Fargo or Grand Forks. To them, Minneapolis is "the big city" and everything above the border is just generic Canada-land. This is in part due to the fact that we've long been receiving ND's TV signals for US networks. I also don't think it helped any when it became a requirement to have a passport to cross the border... travel from the US dropped significantly as I recall.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by esquire

This is in part due to the fact that we've long been receiving ND's TV signals for US networks.

In certain places, what Canadians see on TV shapes a lot of their impressions of the US.

Again, going back to Ontario, the American TV we saw came from Buffalo and Rochester affiliates, and the low budget, corny commercials for local businesses cemented the idea that Buffalo was some provincial kind of town.

Mind you, Toronto stations had low budget, corny commercials for local businesses too, but those local businesses were resolutely "big city", if you know what I mean: drapery shops operated by Hasidim, Portuguese and Greek food brands, etc.

Here in Vancouver, Seattle TV stations don't give off that vibe. This might have something to do with the catchment area of the major affiliates. While they're based out of Seattle, the commercials seem to serve large, national brands and Washington-wide businesses. In Ontario, the American channels largely served the much smaller population of Western New York, so I think it was cheaper for a local business to air a commercial.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

A question I would pose for Canadians is whether it's generally true that when you cross into the US, you cross into an area that is relatively poorer and more backward. Aside from coastal BC, I think this is generally the case.

Immediately across the border from St Stephen NB is Washington County, Maine which is the poorest jurisdiction in the entire contiguous lower 48 states. Almost everyone is obese and lives in a trailer in the middle of the woods. It's as if you took every negative stereotype that your typical Torontonian has of Maritimers and multiplied it by 10. That's how bad Washington County is. Maine stays that way until you get to Bangor or Acadia National Park (but even then Ellsworth is kinda dodgy).........

Charlotte County NB, which is the poorest county in NB seems like a utopian paradise compared to Washington County across the river......

[BretttheRiderFan]

Born and raised in Grande Prairie. To us, the U.S. was just the place you saw in movies and TV or the country you had to get a passport for in order to go to Disneyland or Hawaii. I've been to ten states and none of them were Montana, the only state that borders Alberta.

Our American TV stations generally came from Spokane or Rochester, or Seattle and Detroit (most people have satellite). Not sure if that shapes our perspective at all.

Growing up mainly watching Rochester and Spokane TV, my impressions of US TV are very similar to hipster duck's.

Not to mention channels like TLC or CNN where every other commercial is for prescription drugs or payday loans.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

RE: Montreal. It always surprises me how strongly Canada = Montreal in Boston. Not only do they know it, but it's their entire reference point for Canada. Most don't know St. John's, obviously. Everyone knows either Newfoundland or Nova Scotia but often think the name applies to all Atlantic Canada. And they always ask how far it is from Montreal.

Montreal and Boston are only five hours apart by car, so it's not that surprising.