Does Western Alienation exist, and how can we fix it?

[GreyGarden]

As a Winnipegger I really don't see the type of Western alienation being discussed here and the Wexit movement definitely does not exist in Winnipeg. Maybe it does out in the rural parts of the province - that wouldn't necessarily surprise me.

There is a bit of a sense that Ottawa doesn't think about Wpg and MB but that doesn't translate into anger or hatred for the east. Furthermore, I think most people in Winnipeg understand that our size doesn't really warrant that much attention.

Where I do see frustrations or "alienation" is in our efforts to reconcile with indigenous peoples and their position in Winnipeg's society. Of Canada's cities, Winnipeg has the largest urban indigenous population. The legacy of residential schools and Canada's treatment of indigenous peoples means that many suffer with poverty, homelessness, addictions and trauma. These factors often lead to crime. Year after year, Winnipeg ranks high on "Canada's most dangerous cities" lists and there is a bit of frustration on this front. There is a sense in Winnipeg that Winnipeg/Manitoba shouldn't shoulder all of the blame for Canada's treatment of indigenous peoples and deserves more help from Ottawa on this issue.

I think its tough for people in Winnipeg to see low crime rates in eastern Canada and a comparatively higher quality of life when so much of our budget goes toward reconciliation initiatives and policing. There is a sense that Canada shares some of the responsibility for whats happening in Winnipeg and should help out more. No one thinks that MB is off the hook or is blameless, just that we need some help.

That's really the only type of alienation I see around Winnipeg towards the East and Ottawa.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Yeah, I probably exaggerated the lack of consistency, but it does seem to vary to some degree from the oft quoted 33%. How they come up with the exact ratios is unknown to me.

For example, the Trans-Canada Highway twinning through Banff National Park was (I am pretty sure) paid for entirely by the feds.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

So practically, even municipal public transit should be mostly provincial responsibility?

Depends on what you mean by responsibility. Province shouldn't be running transit systems or even directly funding operating costs. But they should help to fund a lot higher percentage of capital costs.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I don't think the feds would do that, though, i.e. jump in to cover both the (usual) provincial share plus the federal share. And generally the feds won't jump in until a project has secured provincial government support and funding. That's one of the main ways they determine if a project is worthwhile.

The LRT line Milo's referring to actually got commitment from the feds first. Originally the city wanted to build just a BRT line because that's all they could afford. Then in 2015 Jason and Lisa Raitt came to town and asked how much would be needed to build a train line stretching from the far north end of Calgary to the deep south. The City was totally unprepared and gave them a number that was way too low. Province didn't come on board until 2017. Then reality set in and the City realized they needed way more money and cut the line way back. Total planning disaster. The province is doing us a favor by withholding funding as major changes need to be made so we don't end spending >$5 billion on a POS.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by misher

Although a lot of municipalities have been taking things outside their sphere on, in the end municipalities in Canada are not provinces, their cities. Regional transportation infrastructure benefits more than one city and thus is provincial. Certain members of Vancouver’s city council have been doing their best to block infrastructure to no avail. It’s happening and Horgan has warned them that if they don’t plan it then he will.

Name the council members and the infrastructure they are blocking.

[swimmer_spe]

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if this is all because people are smart enough to see their industry shuttered and they are worried about their job, so they want to get as much money as they can before it's too late.

[NetMapel]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if this is all because people are smart enough to see their industry shuttered and they are worried about their job, so they want to get as much money as they can before it's too late.

Sometimes people also like to just double down for some reason. Danielle Smith just casually defending potentially investing teacher pensions funds to prop up the oil and gas industry in the face of a global divestment movement. Just as one of the panelists said in the video, forget about the moral and environmental concerns of investing in oil and gas. It jus seems like a bad economic bet for something as long term as pension fund. UCP playing politics with people's pension is absolutely horrid. A "divestment movement" away from oil and gas is not generally made for political reasons but a business one. Just look at how insurance companies are changing their policies to deal with climate change.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

Depends on what you mean by responsibility. Province shouldn't be running transit systems or even directly funding operating costs. But they should help to fund a lot higher percentage of capital costs.

Tell that to Doug Ford!

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by GreyGarden

As a Winnipegger I really don't see the type of Western alienation being discussed here and the Wexit movement definitely does not exist in Winnipeg. Maybe it does out in the rural parts of the province - that wouldn't necessarily surprise me.

There is a bit of a sense that Ottawa doesn't think about Wpg and MB but that doesn't translate into anger or hatred for the east. Furthermore, I think most people in Winnipeg understand that our size doesn't really warrant that much attention.

Where I do see frustrations or "alienation" is in our efforts to reconcile with indigenous peoples and their position in Winnipeg's society. Of Canada's cities, Winnipeg has the largest urban indigenous population. The legacy of residential schools and Canada's treatment of indigenous peoples means that many suffer with poverty, homelessness, addictions and trauma. These factors often lead to crime. Year after year, Winnipeg ranks high on "Canada's most dangerous cities" lists and there is a bit of frustration on this front. There is a sense in Winnipeg that Winnipeg/Manitoba shouldn't shoulder all of the blame for Canada's treatment of indigenous peoples and deserves more help from Ottawa on this issue.

I think its tough for people in Winnipeg to see low crime rates in eastern Canada and a comparatively higher quality of life when so much of our budget goes toward reconciliation initiatives and policing. There is a sense that Canada shares some of the responsibility for whats happening in Winnipeg and should help out more. No one thinks that MB is off the hook or is blameless, just that we need some help.

That's really the only type of alienation I see around Winnipeg towards the East and Ottawa.

Northern Ontario cities and towns face the same things as Winnipeg and other communities there with high percentages of Indigenous peoples. Our municipal police service in Timmins is huge for a city of 42,000 people. And we also have a large provincial police presence here (OPP).

Since you live in Winnipeg, I'm quite sure that you go to Northwestern Ontario and hear about how Northern Ontario is often ignored by both the Ontario and federal governments.

[vid]

His statement stands in Alberta because they only have wee single tier cities. In Ontario we have a literal metropolis, an actual world city with many cities growing into each other. Regional transport is a necessity here.

Every transit agency in the GTA should be merged into a single, seamless entity like Vancouver has with Translink.

I'd also like to see Presto expanded to be province-wide. It would be pretty convenient to use the Presto card to take a bus from my house to the airport, then once I'm in Toronto, use the same card to take a train to Waterloo and board a bus there, again with the same card. Seamless and easy regional travel. Presto operates in Ottawa so clearly running across multiple agencies isn't beyond their capability, and Thunder Bay is already part of Metrolinx's buying group.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by NetMapel

Sometimes people also like to just double down for some reason. Danielle Smith just casually defending potentially investing teacher pensions funds to prop up the oil and gas industry in the face of a global divestment movement. Just as one of the panelists said in the video, forget about the moral and environmental concerns of investing in oil and gas. It jus seems like a bad economic bet for something as long term as pension fund. UCP playing politics with people's pension is absolutely horrid. A "divestment movement" away from oil and gas is not generally made for political reasons but a business one. Just look at how insurance companies are changing their policies to deal with climate change.

That tweet from the troll account and the uninformed responses to it is another reason why AB is looking to leave the CPP. Danielle never said anything about propping up the oil & gas industry. It doesn't need propping up. It needs a leveling playing field with the rest of the world. If the oil & gas industry was so bad there would be no investment in it anywhere in the world which is clearly not the case.

Your insurance companies example is not a good one. Those crooks are using climate change hysteria to jack rates up sky high because they know the media can't call them out without exposing themselves as huge hypocritical dumbasses.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Tell that to Doug Ford!

Does Timmins need a transit system?

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by GreyGarden

As a Winnipegger I really don't see the type of Western alienation being discussed here and the Wexit movement definitely does not exist in Winnipeg. Maybe it does out in the rural parts of the province - that wouldn't necessarily surprise me.

There is a bit of a sense that Ottawa doesn't think about Wpg and MB but that doesn't translate into anger or hatred for the east. Furthermore, I think most people in Winnipeg understand that our size doesn't really warrant that much attention.

Where I do see frustrations or "alienation" is in our efforts to reconcile with indigenous peoples and their position in Winnipeg's society. Of Canada's cities, Winnipeg has the largest urban indigenous population. The legacy of residential schools and Canada's treatment of indigenous peoples means that many suffer with poverty, homelessness, addictions and trauma. These factors often lead to crime. Year after year, Winnipeg ranks high on "Canada's most dangerous cities" lists and there is a bit of frustration on this front. There is a sense in Winnipeg that Winnipeg/Manitoba shouldn't shoulder all of the blame for Canada's treatment of indigenous peoples and deserves more help from Ottawa on this issue.

I think its tough for people in Winnipeg to see low crime rates in eastern Canada and a comparatively higher quality of life when so much of our budget goes toward reconciliation initiatives and policing. There is a sense that Canada shares some of the responsibility for whats happening in Winnipeg and should help out more. No one thinks that MB is off the hook or is blameless, just that we need some help.

That's really the only type of alienation I see around Winnipeg towards the East and Ottawa.

Manitoba gets equalization payments so perhaps they want to keep mum on the subject?

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by vid

His statement stands in Alberta because they only have wee single tier cities. In Ontario we have a literal metropolis, an actual world city with many cities growing into each other. Regional transport is a necessity here.

Every transit agency in the GTA should be merged into a single, seamless entity like Vancouver has with Translink.

I'd also like to see Presto expanded to be province-wide. It would be pretty convenient to use the Presto card to take a bus from my house to the airport, then once I'm in Toronto, use the same card to take a train to Waterloo and board a bus there, again with the same card. Seamless and easy regional travel. Presto operates in Ottawa so clearly running across multiple agencies isn't beyond their capability, and Thunder Bay is already part of Metrolinx's buying group.

A world city? Thanks for the laugh.

[vid]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

Does Timmins need a transit system?

Doug Ford passed a law this year that put Toronto's subway system under provincial control. The province of Ontario will be responsible for planning, maintaining and operating it.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

Manitoba gets equalization payments so perhaps they want to keep mum on the subject?

Manitoba's getting $2.255 billion this fiscal year in equalization. Given the overall size of their budget that is a significant contribution. If MB did a better job of monetizing their hydro they would be much better off.

[vid]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

Manitoba's getting $2.255 billion this fiscal year in equalization. Given the overall size of their budget that is a significant contribution. If MB did a better job of monetizing their hydro they would be much better off.

Yeah, they should do what Alberta does and charge three times as much for it.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by vid

Yeah, they should do what Alberta does and charge three times as much for it.

Sad.

[NetMapel]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

That tweet from the troll account and the uninformed responses to it is another reason why AB is looking to leave the CPP. Danielle never said anything about propping up the oil & gas industry. It doesn't need propping up. It needs a leveling playing field with the rest of the world. If the oil & gas industry was so bad there would be no investment in it anywhere in the world which is clearly not the case.

Your insurance companies example is not a good one. Those crooks are using climate change hysteria to jack rates up sky high because they know the media can't call them out without exposing themselves as huge hypocritical dumbasses.

Insurance jack up rate because they would go bankrupt with all the extra damage that would be caused by climate change. Recent example being an insurance company goes under after California's most destructive wildfire. I don't think that's a coincidence.

Calgary Herarld also quoted Albertan government officials signalling they'd want their pension plan to invest in oil and gas. I am honestly not against provincial government wanting to create their own provincial pension plan. I have a problem with literally further intersecting one's provincial pension to a single industry that many people work in in that province. It's the same as buying stocks in the same company you work at. It's a bad idea because if your company goes down, your stock becomes worthless too. You are taught to diversify for a reason.

Government officials suggest there could be a strategic advantage for Alberta development. With many lenders shunning oil and gas, AIMCo might buy more stakes in the industry.

[vid]

Good ol' government picking winners and losers. Imagine what Alberta would accomplish in the oil and gas sector if they simply nationalized it? Instead of having to pass a law to steal people's pension funds to prop it up, you could just, you know, literally prop it up.