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  #41  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2019, 2:53 AM
jtown,man jtown,man is offline
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Originally Posted by SIGSEGV View Post
Yeah Hampton's downtown looks pathetic. I'm somewhat familiar with Newport news (still secondhand info) due to Jefferson Lab. Everyone says Newport News sucks...
They are correct. The city is lucky to be such a large center of shipbuilding. It has nice suburban areas in the northern area(if you're into burbs that is) but the city itself leaves a lot to be desired. The downtown has tried to clean up and attract investment with little success. Don't get me wrong, it's not a bombed-out hellhole, but it has a long way to go to be vibrant.
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  #42  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2019, 3:34 AM
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Yeah Hampton's downtown looks pathetic. I'm somewhat familiar with Newport news (still secondhand info) due to Jefferson Lab. Everyone says Newport News sucks...
I've heard it called Bad News.
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  #43  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2019, 3:44 AM
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Originally Posted by liat91 View Post
This is the only metro, where the city does not feel like it belongs to it’s suburbs.
No city belongs to its suburbs.

It's the other way around, hence the "sub" of suburb.
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  #44  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2019, 4:07 AM
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Not necessarily. I'd almost say St. Louis is subordinate to St. Louis County. I mean, the city has/had the sports teams and most of the tourist attractions but that's it. The wealth and power is mostly in the suburbs.
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  #45  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2019, 7:20 AM
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San Francisco does not belong to its suburbs. So much so that the city tore down some of the freeways that suburbanites use to get there and now driving into the city is a complete nightmare. /rant
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  #46  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2019, 1:00 PM
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Originally Posted by liat91 View Post

Miami would have ended up like Detroit if it wasn’t for being a refuge for wealthy Latin Americans and tourism. Broward and Palm Beach are really similar to Oakland/Macomb in their vibrancy being fed by an exodus of white wealth. The Everglades really contributing to that dichotomy. Despite the growth of Ft Lauderdale and West Palm Beach, Miami is clearly the dominate (big) city in the metro currently. Similar to San Francisco which isn’t even the most populated in its metro.
These days Broward is being fed by an exudus of Hispanic wealth from Miami-Dade extending up I-75 into Broward's western suburbs which are now majority Hispanic.
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  #47  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2019, 2:30 PM
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Originally Posted by jtown,man View Post
They are correct. The city is lucky to be such a large center of shipbuilding. It has nice suburban areas in the northern area(if you're into burbs that is) but the city itself leaves a lot to be desired. The downtown has tried to clean up and attract investment with little success. Don't get me wrong, it's not a bombed-out hellhole, but it has a long way to go to be vibrant.
I find it interesting that Portsmouth, despite being the blackest of the four core municipalities, is actually the wealthiest in terms of median household income. I'm not sure what the reason for that is.

I also find it interesting how Hampton Roads is segregated on the neighborhood level by race/income, but not really on the municipal level. In a northern multinodal metro similar to Hampton Roads, you'd expect that one or two of them would become the "black cities" and end up 70%-90% black, while others would remain heavily white.
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  #48  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2019, 3:39 PM
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Lots of great Hip Hop minds in that area, probably the best per capita for MSA's above 1 million.
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  #49  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2019, 4:07 PM
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My wife was born in Portsmouth; big Navy town.
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  #50  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2019, 1:43 AM
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Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
I find it interesting that Portsmouth, despite being the blackest of the four core municipalities, is actually the wealthiest in terms of median household income. I'm not sure what the reason for that is.

I also find it interesting how Hampton Roads is segregated on the neighborhood level by race/income, but not really on the municipal level. In a northern multinodal metro similar to Hampton Roads, you'd expect that one or two of them would become the "black cities" and end up 70%-90% black, while others would remain heavily white.
I actually didn't know that about Portsmouth...and I am quite surprised.

Yeah, also I don't know this as a fact, but imo Virginia Beach has the least segregation of any city I can think of. There's no "bad side" of town.
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  #51  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2019, 2:02 AM
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What's the relationship between your city and suburbs/rural areas?

What's the relationship between your city and it's suburbs/rural areas? Is it pretty smooth or is there a them vs us mentality? Are they both on the same page when it comes to regional matters such as transportation or are there constant disagreements concerning such things?
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  #52  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2019, 2:28 AM
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st. louis and its suburbs/hinterland = total war
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  #53  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2019, 2:41 PM
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just merging this duplicate thread into the one on the same topic from a couple months ago.
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  #54  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2019, 3:28 AM
liat91 liat91 is offline
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
No city belongs to its suburbs.

It's the other way around, hence the "sub" of suburb.
I got it, but sub burbanites see the main city as "their city", usually intertwined somewhat consistently with it's suburbs. San Francisco would probably be the only other example similar to New York's, but less so.

I guess you could say the metros with suburbanites that are aware of most notable areas of their central city would indicate better cohesiveness. I know people out here; 35 miles west of NYC that have no idea about Williamsburg, Union Square, Gramercy Park or even the East Village.
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  #55  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2019, 6:00 AM
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People of Denver's suburbs tend to have Denver pride and tell people, when they travel, that they're from Denver. I've lived in and traveled to many places, and have often heard comments along the lines of, "I've noticed people from Denver's suburbs often say they're from Denver instead of saying where they're actually from." So I guess that's a thing? It makes no sense to me. I mean, if you're from Westminster but actually in Denver, you would say you're from Westminster - but if you're hundreds or thousands of miles away, you would say you're from Denver, because there's no way anyone would know what the hell Westminster is. Do people from the suburbs of say, Seattle, or Boston, or Chicago, not say they're from Seattle, or Boston, or Chicago when they're traveling?

People from Denver's suburbs also tend to refer to virtually the entire city of Denver as, "downtown." I've lived in neighborhoods several miles from downtown that my family would still refer to as "downtown." For instance, I was once at a dinner party at my sister's house (in the burbs) and when someone asked where I lived, she said, "he lives downtown." I tried to explain, "actually I live in City Park West." But then my sister had to clarify: "Oh he lives downtown. Trust me, I've been there; you can't even find a place to park." Her friend's reply was quick, and along the lines of, "Oh, City Park? Yeah, that's downtown."

It's not downtown.

There are some cultural divides within the Metro. The northeast part of suburbia is sort of the redneck gateway to the city. It used to be blue-collar liberal but has recently been trending blue-collar Trump. I've noticed some people from that corner of suburbia - places like Henderson and Brighton - have recently lost some of their Denver pride, and have begun to disassociate themselves from Denver.

There's also a divide between the south side of the Front Range and the north side. The north side, for the most part, is more liberal and secular, while the south side is more conservative and religious. The vague, smeared dividing line between the two would lie somewhere in Douglas County, in Denver's south suburbs.

Another trend I've noticed recently, is some people in far-flung parts of the Front Range refer to the city of Denver as "the city" - especially when they're attempting to refer to the city itself as opposed to the entire metropolis which also calls itself "Denver." This is definitely something new. Will it stick? I suspect not. I suspect these people are from the East Coast or something, where they're used to referring to some nearby core city as "The City." It's not a very Colorado thing to do.

One interesting thing that differentiates Denver from its suburbs, is geography. Denver is down in a pit. It tends to be about 5 degrees warmer down here, but it also tends to be very polluted. When you're out on the south, west, or north side of town looking down into the pit, you're often looking down into the infamous Brown Cloud. It's thick and nasty. Denver's pollution problem seemed to be getting under control for a couple decades there, but for whatever reason, it has gotten out of control the last few years. It's starting to remind me of what it used to be like back in the late 80s and early 90s, when I was a kid. I think it's partially an illusion. People from the suburbs wonder how we Denverites can live down in that polluted basin, but I suspect the entire Front Range is basically just as polluted. The pollution just has a greater visual impact when you're looking down into a valley at it and seeing the skyscrapers seemingly poke out from it.

Last edited by Sam Hill; Nov 20, 2019 at 6:17 AM.
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  #56  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2019, 6:48 AM
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Originally Posted by SFBruin View Post
San Francisco does not belong to its suburbs. So much so that the city tore down some of the freeways that suburbanites use to get there and now driving into the city is a complete nightmare. /rant
When I lived in SF, I didn't own a car and never ventured out of The City, "where you can't even hail a cab! Yikes!" (This was before uber/lyft.) Leaving the city on BART was actually a little intimidating to me. I once went to Target via BART and felt completely out of my element and couldn't wait to get out of there. I noticed many people from SF were like me: relative newcomers that knew nothing about the burbs. Sunset felt like the edge of civilization to me. Even where I worked for a while, down in Brisbane, felt like another world. It was on the other side of these little mountains. I'd have to get off the MUNI, and get on some other weird, slow transit system in order to get there. San Francisco geography, on the tip of a peninsula, separated from everything else - and being uniquely urban compared to everything else - makes it its own little world. When you move there from somewhere else, not owning a car, it becomes your whole world.
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  #57  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2019, 1:21 PM
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It's pretty simple. Without its suburbs, Central Paris would only be a sorry provincial town that would be crumbling on the global stage.
There's some kind of saying here: Paris est sa banlieue (Paris is [actually] its suburbs).
That's right. The Hauts-de-Seine and Yvelines départements (read counties in English) have been major economic engines to feed the metro area for long.
Other départements of the metro area like mine (Val-de-Marne) are a bit left behind on the business stage, but we've got a lot of youth and energy. Seine-Saint-Denis is both the poorest and youngest département of our region, and I think it would punch the world with some more business-friendly policy, because the youth can be badly aggressive out here.
By aggressive, I mean business-wise. They are hungry, starving for success.

We all like our central town, though, because it is an outstanding piece of urban consistency and style making the fame of our region. Overall, it is a pretty old town built as some kind of Roman giant, there's no question about that.
The main problem with it has been its ring road built after WWII, when cars were thought to be the major tool of progress.
It actually only turned out a physical barrier, fence or border between Central Paris and its suburbs. While again, the former would be in ruins without the latter.

There are plans to gradually change that ring road into something more urban, like some regular boulevard instead of an ugly expressway, but I suspect it's going to take a couple of decades to implement that kind of plans.
In the meantime, the inner suburbs might turn richer than the central city itself, cause it's also been a laughable NIMBY stronghold.
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  #58  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2019, 3:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Sam Hill View Post
Do people from the suburbs of say, Seattle, or Boston, or Chicago, not say they're from Seattle, or Boston, or Chicago when they're traveling?
i imagine that most suburbanites in chicagoland would say they are from "chicago" when travelling outside of the region.

you might even get an occasional "chicagoland" from some of the more astute suburbanites.




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Originally Posted by Sam Hill View Post
People from Denver's suburbs also tend to refer to virtually the entire city of Denver as, "downtown." I've lived in neighborhoods several miles from downtown that my family would still refer to as "downtown."
i imagine that's pretty common in most metros that get above several million people. the distances to edges start to get so great that those living way out in the exurbs get a warped sense of what "downtown" is.

my wife's friend who lives way the hell out in mchenry county came over to our place for a visit a little while ago and her first response upon arriving was "this is so cool, you guys, you live downtown!".

our home is 6.5 miles NNW of city hall. nowhere remotely near "downtown" from a city perspective.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Hill View Post
Another trend I've noticed recently, is some people in far-flung parts of the Front Range refer to the city of Denver as "the city" - especially when they're attempting to refer to the city itself as opposed to the entire metropolis which also calls itself "Denver." This is definitely something new. Will it stick? I suspect not. I suspect these people are from the East Coast or something, where they're used to referring to some nearby core city as "The City." It's not a very Colorado thing to do.
the map below (based on data from a dialect study by havard) shows how people answered the question, "What is the city?" The warmer the color, the more people answered "new york city". the cooler the color the more people said something else.

i used to think that "The City" was used in every metro area, more or less exclusively, to delineate the city proper from the burbs, but according to the map, it's most predominately used that way around NYC, Chicago, and SF, with other significant pockets around minneapolis and seattle. in much of the nation, even places thousands of miles away, a shockingly high percentage of people bewilderingly still answered "new york city".


source: https://i.imgur.com/lPpGyzz.png


in chicagoland "The City" and "The Burbs" are very frequently used terms to delineate the two main realms of the metro area, based entirely on the municipal boundaries of the city.

"we're headed into the city tomorrow night to go to the sox game"

"i can't make it, i have a family party at my aunt's house out in the burbs next saturday"
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Nov 20, 2019 at 4:34 PM.
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  #59  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2019, 4:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post

i used to think that "The City" was used in every metro area, more or less exclusively, to delineate the city proper from the burbs, but according to the map, it's most predominately used that way around NYC, Chicago, and SF, with other significant pockets around minneapolis and seattle. in much of the nation, even places thousands of miles away, a shockingly high percentage of people bewilderingly still answered "new york city".
The City doesn't refer to NYC proper. It refers to Manhattan only.

People in Brooklyn will say "I'm headed to the City" and everyone knows what they're talking about.
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  #60  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2019, 5:07 PM
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The City doesn't refer to NYC proper. It refers to Manhattan only.

People in Brooklyn will say "I'm headed to the City" and everyone knows what they're talking about.
right, in NYC the term gets distilled even further because NYC is so cleanly cleaved into discreet geographical packets by all of the various waterways.

most US city propers are not chopped up within themselves by water like that.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Nov 20, 2019 at 8:25 PM.
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