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  #261  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2019, 11:49 PM
RowanGrad RowanGrad is offline
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Originally Posted by JAYNYC View Post
I have never heard anyone compare Philly to Baltimore or Cleveland.
I've seen it plenty on YouTube/social media. They're ignorant people who never stepped foot in any of these cities however.
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  #262  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2019, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
I would generally agree with this, except for the New Yorkers part. They're close enough to know what Philly offers, which, yeah, is about on-par with Boston.
Yea. Just some like I said. The North Jerseyites I knew at college looked down on Philly. You know "Philly trash". Albeit, it was usually in a sports fan context, and most of them would go out to Philly a lot.
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  #263  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2019, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Hmm. I'm less familiar with Baltimore than Philly, but I always felt that Baltimore was significantly more dilapidated. It could be that Philly is much larger and better able to hide it from visitors, though.
Yea. They both have very run-down and crime ridden areas and those areas are probably about similar in land mass. However, like you said, Philly is a lot bigger so it has much more nice parts and they're all connected. You could live your whole life in Philly and never have to step foot in an "undesirable" neighborhood.

However, Baltimore only has a few nice neighborhoods from what I know and they're usually side by side with not-so-nice neighborhoods.
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  #264  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2019, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
IMO Philadelphia has as much or perhaps slightly more "city stuff" than Boston, but Boston is a nicer, better preserved and maintained city.
Yea. I can't think of any areas in Boston that are rundown, but I do stick to downtown and its surrounding neighborhoods whenever I visit.

One thing that Philly definitely has in it's favor is it's affordability and non-Nimbyness in comparison. I also think Philly has a much more interesting skyline.
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  #265  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2019, 12:30 PM
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I feel that there’s more money - both new and old - sloshing around downtown Boston than downtown Philly, and more people on the streets.

Downtown Philly has the more impressive Financial District, though, with its stock of tall, corporate towers.
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  #266  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2019, 2:28 PM
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Originally Posted by urbanadvocate View Post
I don't see why Sacramento is even being compared to Vegas--the two cities have nothing in common and are going to attract very different people.

To me a fair Sac comparison is Portland, Kansas City, Salt Lake City maybe Pittsburgh.

Have lived in all or spent time in all and I found Sac the most balanced and appealing--easy going but not at all the sleepy cow-town people from the Bay Area and Socal make it to be. Portland beats it in regards to an overall urban feel and seems to have a spark about it so it comes as a close second, but the diversity of Sac gets extra points (it is not a bunch of middle class families). To me calling Sac a cow-town is the same as saying everyone in LA wants to be famous--an outdated and undeserved stereotype for both.

I would be curious to see how Salt Lake has changed over the years as it has seen quite a bit of growth.
What's wrong with a bunch of middle-class families?

The more I ponder on the state of the American city the more I realize we need middle-class *families* in our actual cities. We have lower-class people in our cities, check. We have wealthy people in our cities, check. We have young single-people in our cities, check. We don't have middle-class families though(in sizable levels). This, to me, is what makes European and Japanese cities so special. "Normal" people live there. Here, normal people move to the burbs.
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  #267  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2019, 2:51 PM
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You mention four different demographic groups explaining that US cities have three of them and lack one. Yet you imply that only one of the three is "normal". Why is only one group "normal" and what defines normality in terms of your usage? Is it that a group has to account for a certain percentage of the total national or regional population? And if so what percentage is the cut off?
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  #268  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2019, 3:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jtown,man View Post
This, to me, is what makes European and Japanese cities so special. "Normal" people live there. Here, normal people move to the burbs.
I don't know about Japan, but average middle class households definitely don't live in European city centers, which are extremely expensive. They live in the burbs and small towns, just like in the U.S.

Vienna, Amsterdam, Munich, Milan, Copenhagen, etc. are basically pricier than any U.S. city centers not named NYC and SF, yet professional salaries are generally much lower. Berlin used to be cheap but no longer, and salaries are a joke.
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  #269  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2019, 5:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
You mention four different demographic groups explaining that US cities have three of them and lack one. Yet you imply that only one of the three is "normal". Why is only one group "normal" and what defines normality in terms of your usage? Is it that a group has to account for a certain percentage of the total national or regional population? And if so what percentage is the cut off?
I think the answer lies in the fact that he put "normal" in quotation marks.

Not that big a deal, really.
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  #270  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2019, 6:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
I don't know about Japan, but average middle class households definitely don't live in European city centers, which are extremely expensive. They live in the burbs and small towns, just like in the U.S.

Vienna, Amsterdam, Munich, Milan, Copenhagen, etc. are basically pricier than any U.S. city centers not named NYC and SF, yet professional salaries are generally much lower. Berlin used to be cheap but no longer, and salaries are a joke.
It might not be their predominant place of residence, but there are more average middle class households (with kids) living in European city centres than in your average city centre in the US.

I would agree that that in most European cities their numbers are declining, as they flee to nearby small towns and suburbs.

But in the US they've generally been gone from city centres for decades. (With some exceptions as I mentioned.)
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  #271  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2019, 7:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I think the answer lies in the fact that he put "normal" in quotation marks.

Not that big a deal, really.
Perhaps the answer does lie in the quotation marks, but obviously that didn't help me find it. If you're his interpreter, perhaps you could provide some additional detail for those of us slower on the uptake?
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  #272  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2019, 8:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jtown,man View Post
What's wrong with a bunch of middle-class families?

The more I ponder on the state of the American city the more I realize we need middle-class *families* in our actual cities. We have lower-class people in our cities, check. We have wealthy people in our cities, check. We have young single-people in our cities, check. We don't have middle-class families though(in sizable levels). This, to me, is what makes European and Japanese cities so special. "Normal" people live there. Here, normal people move to the burbs.
I agree. I should clarify my statement that I think Sac gets an undeserved reputation for being boring 'cause it is considered a middle class sleepy city. It does have a lot of middle class government workers but it is also a lot more than that with a very diverse demographic which makes the fabric of the city interesting. It is just the 4th metro (2 of which can be considered world class) in Cali so often gets looked down on--in any other state (except maybe Texas) it would be looked at differently.
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  #273  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2019, 12:13 AM
JAYNYC JAYNYC is offline
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Originally Posted by urbanadvocate View Post
It is just the 4th metro (2 of which can be considered world class) in Cali so often gets looked down on--in any other state (except maybe Texas) it would be looked at differently.
"Maybe" Texas? As far as state capitals go, California's is a joke compared to Texas'.
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  #274  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2019, 2:09 AM
ThePhun1 ThePhun1 is offline
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Sacramento holds it's own in every way except skyscrapers. On this site that's major but Sacramento is a great place. If only a major state university had developed there.
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  #275  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2019, 3:01 AM
jtown,man jtown,man is offline
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Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
You mention four different demographic groups explaining that US cities have three of them and lack one. Yet you imply that only one of the three is "normal". Why is only one group "normal" and what defines normality in terms of your usage? Is it that a group has to account for a certain percentage of the total national or regional population? And if so what percentage is the cut off?
That one group represents a massive chunk of America, that's an important point to make. Yep, normal to me would be a huge portion of the American population that cities do not have in any meaningful portions.

I don't know what the percentages are. I do know cities like Chicago(soley based on looking at income maps from like the 1970s-2010s) used to have massives sections of their cities where middle-class families thrived. Today Chicago, along with most large sought after cities, are comprised the wealthy, the poor, and young people who are either in college or just got their first job etc.. So basically you have the extremes of those who are "haves" and those that are "havenots." I don't like that. I want families who make 50-70k a year to not only be able to afford a house in a good city neighborhood, but also feel comfortable sending their kids to local schools.

Our cities would change radically if just 10% of families who end up in the burbs go or stay in the city.
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  #276  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2019, 3:03 AM
jtown,man jtown,man is offline
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
I don't know about Japan, but average middle class households definitely don't live in European city centers, which are extremely expensive. They live in the burbs and small towns, just like in the U.S.

Vienna, Amsterdam, Munich, Milan, Copenhagen, etc. are basically pricier than any U.S. city centers not named NYC and SF, yet professional salaries are generally much lower. Berlin used to be cheap but no longer, and salaries are a joke.
I should have been more precise. In Europe and in Japan "average" families can and do live in urban environments that are safe and where they feel comfortable sending their kids to the schools, not necessarily in city centers.
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  #277  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2019, 3:05 AM
jtown,man jtown,man is offline
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Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
Perhaps the answer does lie in the quotation marks, but obviously that didn't help me find it. If you're his interpreter, perhaps you could provide some additional detail for those of us slower on the uptake?
He was right lol but I should have been more precise. I mean, I don't like when people categorize whole groups of people in a negative light myself, which I basically did(or could be seen doing) by insinuating that all other groups were abnormal.
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  #278  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2019, 4:03 AM
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Originally Posted by JAYNYC View Post
"Maybe" Texas? As far as state capitals go, California's is a joke compared to Texas'.
I am pretty sure you didn't understand my comment. I was not comparing the two capitals. I was making the point that if Sacramento was placed in any other state it wouldn't have the same reputation. I said "maybe" Texas since Texas is the only state comparable to California in regards to so many large and diverse metros. Anyhow, we know your opinion, which your are entitled to, so moving on . . .
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  #279  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2019, 4:08 AM
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Originally Posted by ThePhun1 View Post
Sacramento holds it's own in every way except skyscrapers. On this site that's major but Sacramento is a great place. If only a major state university had developed there.
I suppose there is UC Davis which has great academics but neither that Uni or Sac State have the brand that bigger sports schools bring
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  #280  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2019, 4:44 AM
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UC Davis just came along a little too late imo.
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