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  #41  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2019, 8:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001 View Post
I think a lot of it might have to do with most Z'ers in the United States grew up not knowing of a time when we weren't dealing with the after-effects of 9/11, financial/political instability and mass shootings.
I think every older generation says that about the next generation behind them; that there's more uncertainty, life's more complicated, etc. There is but kids adapt. I was born in '73, my mom for sure thought the instability of that era was going to spill over into my childhood. Thankfully it didn't and was able to enjoy Knight Rider in peace. Apart from the nuclear threat. I think this phenomenon with Z'ers goes much deeper than living in a post 9/11 world.

Millennials did do something, they/you were the generation most effected by 9/11 as it occurred during your formative years and it was your generation that fought in those wars and are now securing positions of power.
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  #42  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2019, 9:15 PM
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They fought in those wars and should be commended for their service, but what I wasnt communicating effectively is my thought/belief that Gen Z is already far more politically active and service-oriented than Millennials were at the same ages.

We bitched about what an awful president was George W. Bush and about how much the recession sucked, but what actions did we take at the time (other than the failed Occupy movement then Handro referenced)? I dont believe Millennials, collectively, have the same appreciation for the long-term implications of our current actions as Gen Z, who at least recognize they're (we're?) fucked and are trying to do something about it and draw attention in ways that are productive. Millennials mostly just like to bitch/moan/whine/complain.

And yes, the irony is not lost on me that is exactly what I'm doing right now /hypocrite
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  #43  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2019, 9:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001 View Post
They fought in those wars and should be commended for their service, but what I wasnt communicating effectively is my thought/belief that Gen Z is already far more politically active and service-oriented than Millennials were at the same ages.

We bitched about what an awful president was George W. Bush and about how much the recession sucked, but what actions did we take at the time (other than the failed Occupy movement then Handro referenced)? I dont believe Millennials, collectively, have the same appreciation for the long-term implications of our current actions as Gen Z, who at least recognize they're (we're?) fucked and are trying to do something about it and draw attention in ways that are productive. Millennials mostly just like to bitch/moan/whine/complain.

And yes, the irony is not lost on me that is exactly what I'm doing right now /hypocrite
I don’t understand what you expect millennials to have accomplished. I’m an elder millennial and have only been able to vote for approximately 15 years. Is that enough time to make meaningful change? I don’t know.

I do agree that we have crap voter turnout but it would be interesting to compare boomers during the same voting age. Is it really worse? Maybe better?
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  #44  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2019, 9:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001 View Post
They fought in those wars and should be commended for their service, but what I wasnt communicating effectively is my thought/belief that Gen Z is already far more politically active and service-oriented than Millennials were at the same ages.
It's a different world and not necessarily a better one. Millenials didn't grow up in a hyper-politicized world that Z'ers did. Even as polarizing the Bush era was, politics didn't dominate all facets of life they way it does now.
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  #45  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2019, 10:22 PM
Buckeye Native 001 Buckeye Native 001 is offline
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Originally Posted by TexasPlaya View Post
I don’t understand what you expect millennials to have accomplished. I’m an elder millennial and have only been able to vote for approximately 15 years. Is that enough time to make meaningful change? I don’t know.

I do agree that we have crap voter turnout but it would be interesting to compare boomers during the same voting age. Is it really worse? Maybe better?
I'm profoundly disappointed in our voter turnout (to be fair, I missed several elections when I was younger and attending college out of state) but I expected us to be more vocal and take more action about the shit we encountered. The Boomers organized civil rights rallies, Woodstock and massive antiwar protests and Gen Z had March For Our Lives. What the hell did Millennials do besides a few feeble antiwar protests leading up to the 2003 Invasion of Iraq? Nothing we've done, comparatively, has been as good as those who came before us and after us.

Hell, look at the disdain we receive from several formers here for our entitlement and profound selfishness. I know a lot of us here arent like that (I am, but that's a separate matter) but collectively, we've been pretty terrible when compared to our counterpart generations.
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  #46  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2019, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
It's a different world and not necessarily a better one. Millenials didn't grow up in a hyper-politicized world that Z'ers did. Even as polarizing the Bush era was, politics didn't dominate all facets of life they way it does now.
A lot of us were old enough to know what life was like before everything went to shit but instead of trying to make the world (well, maybe just the United States?) a moderately better place, all we've done is complain about how much better things used to be. I see it as a lack of perspective and an inability to think about the long-term implications of our current actions.

This all has nothing to do with the thread topic and is probably frustrating for those who see that I'm dragging Current Events subforum discussions into City Discussions. For the sake of everyone's sanity, I'm willing to discuss/argue further in private messages. I apologize for wasting everyone's time with my ranting.
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  #47  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2019, 11:06 PM
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The millennial generation is bigger than the boomers and in the distant future will have incredible power, I guess we'll see what happens. Boomers are still very comfortably at the wheel in terms of government.
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  #48  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2019, 7:15 AM
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We did grow up with Fraggle Rock. I was born in 82 and watched it all the time along with Heman, Smurfs, etc.
You’re a Xennial like me, we barely count as Millennials and have stronger Gen X behavior and interest traits like purchasing behaviors, media consumption, views on politics etc. than Millennial equivalents.

Or another way: Stranger Things is legitimately nostalgic for me. But I would have only been 3 years old for Season 1.

A mid-cohort Millennial would have to Wikipedia all of that awesomeness you listed.
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  #49  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2019, 8:31 AM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
It's a different world and not necessarily a better one. Millenials didn't grow up in a hyper-politicized world that Z'ers did. Even as polarizing the Bush era was, politics didn't dominate all facets of life they way it does now.
If you think this world is "hyper-politicized" take another look at tapes of the 1968 Democratic Convention in Chicago. When was the last time a student was shot by the National Guard on a college campus (as at Kent State)? Assassinations of the most prominent black leader (King) and a prominent political challenger for the Presidency (Bobby Kennedy)?

I just shake my head at those who think politics today is angry and "polarized". Many times in American history things were a lot worse, from the very beginning (the American Revolution was not universally popular with the colonists) forward.

And the Bush era--a time of peace and prosperity with the single exception of the WTC attack. That was bad but it was something that happened and then it was over and if you didn't live in Manhattan you could have ignored it. It didn't go on for years and years (or it needn't have) like the nightmare in Vietnam. And unlike Vietnam, there was no draft to disturb the lives of the young. Some small fraction of them voluntarily participated in the unnecessary Iraq adventure and the slightly more justified Afghanistan one, but most didn't.

To make clear where I'm coming from, I entered the military in 1973 as a result of a thing called the Berry Plan:

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The Berry Plan was a Vietnam War-era program in the United States that allowed physicians to defer obligatory military service until they had completed medical school and residency training. More than 42,000 physicians and surgeons were affected by the Berry Plan, named after Dr. Frank B. Berry, who served as the Assistant Secretary of Defense for Health and Medical Affairs from 1954–1961.

The Plan, enacted in 1954, arose out of a proposed "Doctor's Draft," originally met with objections from the American Medical Association, The Association of American Medical Colleges, and the American Hospital Association, who felt the draft would deprive them of a pool of young men who would staff their hospitals. The Berry Plan offered draftees three choices: entry into the Armed Forces after completing a medical internship, after completing one year of residency and returning to their residencies after completion of service, and after completion of a full residency program.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berry_Plan

Had I not taken advantage of this plan, I would have been drafted in 1971, probably into the Army (the Berry Plan also gave people who signed up the opportunity to pick their branch of service). I was lucky in that the war was largely over--although it technically continued until 1975--by the time I arrived in the far east and I stayed on Okinawa assigned to a Marine regiment. Since I wasn't exposed to combat, I think it fair to say I enjoyed the travel and other aspects of military service enough that I stayed for a career. But had I not been involuntarily brought into the service, I'm fairly sure I wouldn't have joined and my life would probably have been very different.

From the late 70's onward, this sort of life-altering interaction with the federal government just hasn't been an issue for young people so from my perspective, most of them really have nothing to complain about.

Last edited by Pedestrian; Jul 25, 2019 at 8:49 AM.
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  #50  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2019, 2:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
If you think this world is "hyper-politicized" take another look at tapes of the 1968 Democratic Convention in Chicago. When was the last time a student was shot by the National Guard on a college campus (as at Kent State)? Assassinations of the most prominent black leader (King) and a prominent political challenger for the Presidency (Bobby Kennedy)?

I just shake my head at those who think politics today is angry and "polarized". Many times in American history things were a lot worse, from the very beginning (the American Revolution was not universally popular with the colonists) forward.
Right but actual activist protesters have always made up a pretty small segment of the voting population. Even if their actions are extremely loud and bring lots of attention, I'm not sure that's a measure for how exposed the average person is to politics on a daily basis.

I'd wager the average high school kid who didn't read the newspaper in the morning, maybe heard a bit of the 6 o'clock news during dinner, and caught most of his political discourse from in-person conversations was far less exposed than one today. Anyone interested in politics has an unlimited amount of content at their fingertips, and even those uninterested are bombarded on basically all forms of social media or traditional news.

And what about the last part of that post? This generation never had to go through a draft so their complaints against things like affordable housing, stagnant wages, and growing income equality are invalid? Not sure what the message is there? We've moved beyond involuntarily sending young men off to war so no need to push for any more social progress? WW2 was pretty bad... but you know they never had to live as a serf in feudal Europe so nothing really to complain about.
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  #51  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2019, 2:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
You’re a Xennial like me, we barely count as Millennials and have stronger Gen X behavior and interest traits like purchasing behaviors, media consumption, views on politics etc. than Millennial equivalents.

Or another way: Stranger Things is legitimately nostalgic for me. But I would have only been 3 years old for Season 1.

A mid-cohort Millennial would have to Wikipedia all of that awesomeness you listed.
I'm about the same age, and I identify with millennial. I think our group has tried to piggyback onto Gen X because of the bad press that millennials were receiving... but, all along, they were talking about us.

The general rule of thumb is that if you were not yet an adult by the time the 1990s ended, then you are at least a millennial. And, if you don't remember the 1990s then you're Gen Z. Anyone who was college aged when Facebook was founded is a millennial.
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  #52  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2019, 3:03 PM
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Suer, let's say zero people moved to St. Louis last year. Makes sense to me.
While not too far from the truth, that's an empirically false statement that is not equivalent to the title of the article in any way.
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  #53  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2019, 3:23 PM
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It applies your approach equally.

That's a good test of an idea...apply the same formula in a variety of cases. If the more extreme results are flawed, the rest of the results are generally inaccurate.
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  #54  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2019, 3:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
If you think this world is "hyper-politicized" take another look at tapes of the 1968 Democratic Convention in Chicago. When was the last time a student was shot by the National Guard on a college campus (as at Kent State)? Assassinations of the most prominent black leader (King) and a prominent political challenger for the Presidency (Bobby Kennedy)?
Fair point and it certainly was a volatile era and nothing I experienced; I was not around in the late 60's or the early 70's.

However, I recently asked both my mother and mother-in-law about their impression of that era compared to today and both said today is more uncertain and at the time, my mom was off at some hippy school near the Vermont border and my mother-in-law was a Navy wife...so very different world views. The angst was mainly focused concentrated on Vietnam and civil rights where as today, people are divided on everything. Today's it's sneakers, razors and Taylor Swift. We just haven't had our Kent State and/or '68 Chicago DNC moment...yet. Charlottesville was a primer.
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  #55  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2019, 4:10 PM
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us millennials saw that the generations before us tryed a lot of things that never happened so we are the generation that just shares something over the internet that we know wont change anything. we are just learning all the time and thats about all.
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  #56  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2019, 4:35 PM
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May I suggest a musical interlude - YouTube "We Didn't Start the Fire", a late 1980's song by Billy Joel.

That song may provide some with a new perspective on the "then versus now" debate. For me, it helps remind me that the issues of today will eventually pass. But, alas, they will be replaced by new issues.
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  #57  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2019, 4:52 PM
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Originally Posted by rsbear View Post
May I suggest a musical interlude - YouTube "We Didn't Start the Fire", a late 1980's song by Billy Joel.

That song may provide some with a new perspective on the "then versus now" debate. For me, it helps remind me that the issues of today will eventually pass. But, alas, they will be replaced by new issues.
its good to have some problems its just the main problem that's been here like you said from the beginning, its not a new problem like now the problem is over population (we have technology now to have indoor gardens ect). the problems of war and having borders aren't something we should have in this day and age.
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  #58  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2019, 7:18 PM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
The angst was mainly focused concentrated on Vietnam and civil rights where as today, people are divided on everything. Today's it's sneakers, razors and Taylor Swift. We just haven't had our Kent State and/or '68 Chicago DNC moment...yet. Charlottesville was a primer.
In the next decade, the '70s, psychologists were telling us that all the little children of America were going to grow up utterly fearful of nuclear annihilation. Compare that to global warming.

Actually, this article says it was the kids of several decades:

Quote:
Fear of nuclear annihilation scarred children growing up in the Cold War, studies later showed
Aug 29, 2017 · 7 min read

“I remember going to bed one night when I was 11, seriously afraid I would not be alive in the morning,” remembers writer David Ropeik. The date was unmistakable. It was the Cuban Missile Crisis, in October 1962.

Fear of total human annihilation is a tough feeling to live with every day. For children growing up in the Cold War, mutually assured nuclear destruction literally haunted their dreams. Many of them wrote letters to the president, begging Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, and their successors not to push the button. Others just prayed the bomb would kill them instantly, preferring swift death to years of sickness and grief . . . .
https://timeline.com/nuclear-war-chi...y-d1ff491b5fe0

While I can't honestly say I feel "scarred", I do remember watching TV about the Cuban Missile Crisis with the adults at my grandmother's apartment one day while it was happening and I also remember one day asking my father what we would do if the Russians dropped a bomb on Washington (we lived about 7 miles outside DC). He said (really), "Go outside and watch."

Video Link


I might also suggest to today's generations: Don't take yourselves so seriously. A little irony can be effective.
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  #59  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2019, 7:49 PM
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I was a kid during the Reagan era and remembered that TV movie "The Day After"..and that movie freaked the hell out of a lot people...especially my age. We didn't have the Cuban Missile Crisis looming over us...but we still had the imagery.
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  #60  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2019, 8:14 PM
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I was a kid during the Reagan era and remembered that TV movie "The Day After"..and that movie freaked the hell out of a lot people....
1983 also had "Special Bulletin", a fake news TV movie about terrorists sneaking a nuclear bomb into charleston to blackmail the US government.

i was 7 at the time and my older sister was babysitting me. we ended up watching it for some reason (TV was A LOT more limited back then) and we had no idea that whole fucking thing was fake because we we're just kids home alone who didn't know any better, or maybe my sister did know and was just stringing me along.

either way, it scared the ever living shit out of me. i literally though Charleston, SC was about to be imminently destroyed by a nuclear bomb as we were watching it. i was shaking by the time my parents finally came home and had to explain to me that it was all just a silly movie.

It was my version of "The War of the Worlds" radio broadcast back in the '30s.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Jul 25, 2019 at 8:34 PM.
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