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  #21  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2010, 1:08 PM
grumpy old man grumpy old man is offline
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Originally Posted by trueviking View Post
i go there a few times a year...did more often a few years ago....the place is fine, but that is not the issue.

progress is not tearing down a building because you can make more money renting it as a parking lot....or as some escape from property tax....i do agree that the tax structure should be changed , but there also needs to be adherance to a proper downtown development plan like in most other cities....you could easily make it difficult to get properties re-zoned for parking....or to disallow demolition permits unless they can prove that there is no option or there is a better option.....most cities do that....

not everything can be explained as 'its business'....if the civic government gave a crap at all about our downtown they would quite easily be able to do something about it.....until then it will take the action of private people who care.....simply wringing your hands because that's business isnt helping the problem.
I guess as long as it's not your money it's no big deal eh? Typical BS comment coming from people who don't have a dime involved..

You talk about some proper downtown plan. Show me this plan. People bitch about this plethora of surface parking lots like it's the worst possible thing that could happen. Where are all these developers wanting to build on these lots?

Now you deign sh1t on me because I'm not "helping the problem"? Hell I merely posted a reason this was happening. What are YOU doing besides posting here?

Time to crawl down off the high horse sport...
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  #22  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2010, 2:32 PM
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Add me to the list of people who occassionally frequent the Windsor bar... then again, I also used to frequent the beer vendor (for cases of Club), so maybe that makes me one of the rubbies you speak of.

I also care about the building and would lament its loss.
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  #23  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2010, 4:08 PM
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in other cities you have to explain why you want to tear your downtown building down...if you have no reason you dont get a permit....here you have to justify it but it is never refused.

the fact that there is not a line of developers or a real downtown development plan is exactly the reason why we should be even more unified against random demolition.....they have had a good offer for the property...if they cant make a go of it, why not sell it the group that wants to buy it and return it to its former use?....they are not painted into a corner....they were offered 1 million for the building and the asking price is 1.2m.

in most cities if you own a downtown building you have to live by the rules of the city zoning, the community development groups, city hall.....generally there is a downtown development plan.....you have all kinds of responsibility to the comminity beyond your own money....it should be the same here.


surface parking lots are the worst thing that could happen to downtown....creation of new ones should not be allowed by zoning in the downtown.....apply for a demolition permit without reason and you are denied....simple as that.


man, i can see headingley from up on this horse.
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  #24  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2010, 5:40 PM
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Maybe GOM should go back to suburban mall walking and leave those concerned with Winnipeg's downtown to our business.
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  #25  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2010, 10:44 PM
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riverman that is a prity arigant statement... downtown belongs to all winnipegers
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  #26  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2010, 11:27 PM
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Maybe GOM should go back to suburban mall walking and leave those concerned with Winnipeg's downtown to our business.
Care to 'splain yourself sport?
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  #27  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2010, 4:37 AM
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Care to 'splain yourself sport?
Regarding what? Do you mean you crapping on this thread or something else?
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  #28  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2010, 11:47 AM
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Regarding what? Do you mean you crapping on this thread or something else?
Ahhh, I got it now. You're a troll...

Last edited by grumpy old man; Jan 9, 2010 at 12:25 PM.
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  #29  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2010, 1:31 PM
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It is sad when an empty downtown lot can generate more revenue than an occupied building. It just goes to show how little things have changed in downtown in the last decade.

I definately would like to see a parking commision formed, which would oversee parking issues in the downtown, as it is in many cities. They would have the power to refuse new surface lots in the downtown. It should be highly regulated and thus making the prospect of new surface lots much more difficult.

At the end of the day, a part of the problem comes down to a lack of market density in downtown. This creates weak demand for available buildings. The city now has a tax deal for those who invest in heritage buildings and the province has promised to follow suit, but I think there still needs to be more done to attract private investment into the downtown on a broad basis. As I have been saying since I started posting on SSP there is no single magic bullet, or government project which will do the trick. Its about building market demand piece by piece through market forces. Creating incentives to build momentum in the downtown would be my choice. Making empty lots attractive to developers. Of course Winnipegers will go down the same old mega project mind trap when the convention centre announces its new expansion, but at the end of the day it won't be the project to save downtown.

By the way I am in very much in favour of the expansion of the convention center. I think attracting more and larger conventions would be a good thing for Winnipeg and its downtown. It just won't have any impact in terms of situations like this or the greater DT area.
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Last edited by newflyer; Jan 9, 2010 at 1:43 PM.
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  #30  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2010, 2:05 PM
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It is sad when an empty downtown lot can generate more revenue than an occupied building.
AGREED. And that is the crux of the matter. If Winnipeggers believe there are too many parking lots then we need to do something about it. Taxing the hell out of them will work to some extent but it might create something else even less desirable than surface parking lots.

I usually default to increasing the density by bringing more peeps downtown to live. If more and more people live downtown so much more development will follow. That and increased incentives will deliver the desired results IMO...
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  #31  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2010, 2:25 PM
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Originally Posted by grumpy old man View Post
AGREED. And that is the crux of the matter. If Winnipeggers believe there are too many parking lots then we need to do something about it. Taxing the hell out of them will work to some extent but it might create something else even less desirable than surface parking lots.

I usually default to increasing the density by bringing more peeps downtown to live. If more and more people live downtown so much more development will follow. That and increased incentives will deliver the desired results IMO...
Exactly ... make space valuable.

As far a taxing parking lots, I don't think it will result in real solutions. Maybe a few more boarded up buildings. The goal needs to be eliminating surface lots through growth.
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  #32  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2010, 6:06 PM
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Ahhh, I got it now. You're a troll...
LOL pot meet kettle.

Too damn cold for my asthma to attend the rally today.
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  #33  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2010, 9:49 PM
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no one will sell the surface lots to be developed witch is why we keep demolishing....
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  #34  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2010, 2:16 AM
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no one will sell the surface lots to be developed witch is why we keep demolishing....
Of course they would, it just comes to paying an amount which would replace the expected rate of return.

I really don't know how much income a surface lot would generate, but for round numbers lets assume Lot X makes 100,000/yr.

If the expected rate of return is 10%, the owner would require at least 1M to make it worth his while to consider a sale. Anything less would not offset the income the lot can generate.
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  #35  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2010, 7:14 AM
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With only a few exceptions, I can be found there every Friday evening and OTL is usually there with me as well (we'd be the guys found debating about the CMHR!). There is actually quite a decent crowd of us 9-5 office-types there on a Friday after work. Still need convincing it is an alright lounge? Stop by and I'll gladly buy any of you a beer.

Hope there is nothing to this story... otherwise I'll be back to drinking at Bleachers/Vendome Hotel located alongside Murder Alley.

Anyway, there is no shortage of surface lots either across the street from or kitty corner to the future location of the Public Safety Building. If the city wants to build a multi-level parkade for the PSB, I'd rather it be built on those already existing lots.
As I am now officially old enough to drink in Manitoba I would be glad to take you up on that offer the next time I visit the city. Hell; we can debate on the CMHR while we're at it!!!
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  #36  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2010, 7:17 AM
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post it up and i might just join
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  #37  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2010, 8:08 PM
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Sounds good guys, yeah, post it up and we'll try to work something out for the Windsor.

***

Yesterday, I attended the rally at the Windsor. Quite a decent turnout for a -40 something windchill, and looked like all the local media turned out as well. It would be good if the owner of the Royal George in Transcona is able to buy the hotel and lounge, I like the Royal George and the music at that lounge is also nice on the ears (unlike that slasher metal type shit they play at The Zoo, etc). Hopefully the next owner gets back to more of a live music venue for the evenings, as the Windsor has been drifting away from that over the past few years. Yours truly even caught a glimpse of himself in the crowd on television, luckily not a close-up.

Afterward, the bar was packed with us from the rally, and it was good to see the bar that full. If anything, maybe the rally will inspire some of the musicians who have been avoiding playing over the last while to book some more shows, or the current ownership to try and book some more shows with them... not sure what side is creating that issue. One notable person I got into a conversation with (won't name names) seems to be of the opinion that it is partly a bit of a protest on their part (musicians) as the Windsor was paying the strippers more than the musicians. I made a futile attempt to explain how it is "apples and oranges" (or should I say "melons and beets"). But, nonetheless, it should now be a moot point as they haven't had strippers there in many months and the bartenders always tell me whenever I bring it up that they don't think the strippers will be back.

Last edited by DowntownWpg; Jan 10, 2010 at 8:45 PM.
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  #38  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2010, 8:32 PM
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Originally Posted by grumpy old man View Post
It WAS the house of blues. Not so today. If there is a market for a blues venue it will be served elsewhere. Did ya read the story in the Freep? They apparently have not played jazz there in some time.

The building IS a dump. Let's not over-react...
I was going by the small letter on top of the petititon. I actually meant blues as it stated local artists still frequent. At the end of the day and most on here i would imagine the biggest gripe is one more parking lot in a sea of them.
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  #39  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2010, 8:34 PM
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I like the Royal George and the music at that lounge is also nice on the ears (unlike that slasher metal type shit they play at The Zoo, etc).
There is a place for loud thrashy music of course, a lot of people like it. But I agree it really would be nice to have the downtown blues venue (that the Windsor was) back as the George is quite a hike, especially once one reaches the point of moderate drunkeness.

One of the owners of the George has done a couple of small concert productions, the latest one was The Two Jacks at the Pyramid - that one one amazing show. They played at the George the following night.
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  #40  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2010, 8:59 PM
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in a sea of small density tucked on the edge of a sea of parking we need to incurage a parkade going up on one of the big ass surface lots... to the west a couple blocks
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