LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 6.0

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

i REALLY wish the city invested in new sidewalks, landscaping and uniformity in the historic core. We dont need every street project to be a huge dilemma and over the top. For example, the sidewalks on Spring and Main can really use a refresh.

[Easy]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan

i REALLY wish the city invested in new sidewalks, landscaping and uniformity in the historic core. We dont need every street project to be a huge dilemma and over the top. For example, the sidewalks on Spring and Main can really use a refresh.

Maybe some water sprayed on existing sidewalks would be nice too.

[Wally West]

Originally Posted by SimonLA

With Expo, it feels like we crossed a big entry off our to-do list, but what remains for the city and specifically DTLA?

To begin with, I'd like to see:
-The reopening of Angels Flight & Angels Knoll (or development for the latter)
-The opening of the Clark and Embassy hotels
-Pershing Square renovation
-I guess the streetcar?

Do people still want the streetcar nowadays?

[King Kill 'em]

Originally Posted by Wally West

Do people still want the streetcar nowadays?

It's a complete waste of money.

[Mojeda101]

Originally Posted by King Kill 'em

It's a complete waste of money.

I disagree. While it'll be much more expensive than previous anticipated It would be quite a helpful way to get around the major hotspots in Downtown without the need to walk. I imagine it would be a hit with tourists and it typically helps revitalize the areas it runs through. It would run along Oceanwide, Circa, Staple Center, LA Live, Fig@7th, turn down 7th and run past Wilshire Grand, The Bloc, and various restaurants and projects down the street, up Hill past Pershing Square, turn at Grand Park, down Broadway past Grand Central Market, Cliftons, Ace Hotel, Case Hotel, and all the Broadway Theaters, and turn on 11th which has been worked on heavily these past few years. It would help link all of that together which in my opinion would do nothing but good for the area.

[ChargerCarl]

So would a bus.

[Mojeda101]

Originally Posted by ChargerCarl

So would a bus.

Typically a bus is much less desirable to ride than a streetcar. We had this exact same discussion about 3 years ago. Anyone remember?

[ChargerCarl]

Pretty much everything I've ever read on the subject comes to the conclusion that mixed traffic streetcars are a poor investment...

[Jun]

Originally Posted by ChargerCarl

Pretty much everything I've ever read on the subject comes to the conclusion that mixed traffic streetcars are a poor investment...

yup.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/econo...ist-explains-2

I mean if the property owners want to tax themselves to pay for it, all power to them. I'd rather see a usable street car system like Portland or Toronto rather than some vanity tourist line.

[DJM19]

I don't really see how Portland's is different.

[NativeOrange]

Originally Posted by Mojeda101

I disagree. While it'll be much more expensive than previous anticipated It would be quite a helpful way to get around the major hotspots in Downtown without the need to walk. I imagine it would be a hit with tourists and it typically helps revitalize the areas it runs through. It would run along Oceanwide, Circa, Staple Center, LA Live, Fig@7th, turn down 7th and run past Wilshire Grand, The Bloc, and various restaurants and projects down the street, up Hill past Pershing Square, turn at Grand Park, down Broadway past Grand Central Market, Cliftons, Ace Hotel, Case Hotel, and all the Broadway Theaters, and turn on 11th which has been worked on heavily these past few years. It would help link all of that together which in my opinion would do nothing but good for the area.

I agree, but to be on the middle ground between you and KingKillEm I would just say that it shouldn't be a priority, YET. Once many of those areas hit "critical mass", then I would say it should be a higher priority.

[SimonLA]

Originally Posted by NativeOrange

I agree, but to be on the middle ground between you and KingKillEm I would just say that it shouldn't be a priority, YET. Once many of those areas hit "critical mass", then I would say it should be a higher priority.

In many cities a streetcar is seen as more a catalyst for investment than as practical transportation. The issue with DTLA's streetcar is that when it was envisioned, the renaissance had barely begun and development was a trickle. Now, major projects are happening WITHOUT the streetcar. So, it's worth asking if it's still necessary. I'm not saying it's not; I don't have information to know.

[Easy]

Originally Posted by Mojeda101

Typically a bus is much less desirable to ride than a streetcar. We had this exact same discussion about 3 years ago. Anyone remember?

It is psychologically less desirable for people unaccustomed to riding public transportation. Operationally it is superior in many ways. In my opinion if we want public transportation a bus line would be better. If we want a tourist attraction, then obviously a streetcar.

[BrandonJXN]

I'm whatever on the streetcar at this point. It will be cool to have but DASH does everything the streetcar would do.

[black_crow]

Originally Posted by Mojeda101

I disagree. While it'll be much more expensive than previous anticipated It would be quite a helpful way to get around the major hotspots in Downtown without the need to walk. I imagine it would be a hit with tourists and it typically helps revitalize the areas it runs through. It would run along Oceanwide, Circa, Staple Center, LA Live, Fig@7th, turn down 7th and run past Wilshire Grand, The Bloc, and various restaurants and projects down the street, up Hill past Pershing Square, turn at Grand Park, down Broadway past Grand Central Market, Cliftons, Ace Hotel, Case Hotel, and all the Broadway Theaters, and turn on 11th which has been worked on heavily these past few years. It would help link all of that together which in my opinion would do nothing but good for the area.

I would rather have a streetcar than a bus.

Why? Well a bus has to wait at every single light. L.A. belongs already to the best 3 "bus cities" in the U.S., people rather take light railway, that is also true. I grew up in cities with great public transportation, but I never took the bus. I always went for light railway, because it was much faster. (no need to explain that it could be different in Downtown)

We can argue about money and sense, but I guess the railway would be a success. I calculated the number of tourists a few days ago (daily visitors / Hunter discussion) and it would be a great option. Downtown is changing and wants to attract more tourists, so yes, light railway would absolutely make sense. Downtown's population is also growing very fast.

But let's not make this to a never ending story. Time will tell..

[NSMP]

^the streetcar, as proposed, would be running in mixed traffic and would stop at every light just like a bus.

[202_Cyclist]

Originally Posted by Easy

It is psychologically less desirable for people unaccustomed to riding public transportation. Operationally it is superior in many ways. In my opinion if we want public transportation a bus line would be better. If we want a tourist attraction, then obviously a streetcar.

This has been debated extensively elsewhere but the advantages of a streetcar include:

*Streetcars are far more comfortable and able to attract discretionary riders who might not otherwise ride a bus.
*Streetcars can hold 2-3 times as many people as a bus.
*The useful life of a streetcar is far longer than a bus (which usually have a useful life of 12 - 15 years).
*Streetcars encourage a lot of development.
*Streetcars are powered by electricity, so they are usually cleaner and more sustainable than buses (admittedly more buses are now electric).

[black_crow]

Originally Posted by NSMP

^the streetcar, as proposed, would be running in mixed traffic and would stop at every light just like a bus.

I doubt that.

Let's say it would be like that, the rails would be free I guess?

But there is no need to write novels about it.
I guess we will have streetcars at one point, I am actually pretty sure about that.

The question is with what money, how and when. We can't answer these questions (is this even the right part of the forum?)...


edit:

@202_Cyclist

You are correct, there are many other advantages. Why else would we have light railway in every major city?
Does it make sense everywhere? No. In Downtown? I would say yes, take a look at the overall development (population growth, new hotels, new attractions).

[blackcat23]

600-unit live-work development planned in Arts District

Also 60,000 square feet of commercial space. Located at 520 S. Mateo Street.

[NSMP]

^ That arts district metro extension is looking better every day. Seems like it would be so easy to fund it using a tax district on all the development in the immediate vicinity.

Also, interesting link about that AD landlord. His rationale for not developing makes perfect sense, and not in a "sky is falling" kind of way