Cities with an undeserved bad rap

[niwell]

Hell if anything Montreal is slightly overrated! And that’s not to slight it - I love Montreal but it has a massive reputation and in no way has a bad rap.

[The North One]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

How the heck does Montreal have a bad rap?

It does with certain groups of people.

[aufbau]

At least in California, I'd say Sacramento. Even with its reputation within the state as a hot, boring, provincial cowtown, it's a place I wonder why I even left. Feels more of a "Portland with palm trees" kind of city these days. I dig it.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by The North One

It does with certain groups of people.

Ypu don't want to hang out with them, though.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by niwell

Hell if anything Montreal is slightly overrated! And that’s not to slight it - I love Montreal but it has a massive reputation and in no way has a bad rap.

Tend to agree with this.

[Dariusb]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Why make this thread? You are asking for trouble.


Mine own is actually great to live in, not so much for visiting unless you at every into golf and doing outdoor activities tbt require long drives.

On this forum it’s overly disparaged and not worthy of its rep.

That's certainly not my intention. Just thought it'd make for interesting discussion.

[Dariusb]

Originally Posted by aufbau

At least in California, I'd say Sacramento. Even with its reputation within the state as a hot, boring, provincial cowtown, it's a place I wonder why I even left. Feels more of a "Portland with palm trees" kind of city these days. I dig it.

I know this may be an odd question but since Sacramento is further inland, does it ever get cold or snows there?

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by Dariusb

I know this may be an odd question but since Sacramento is further inland, does it ever get cold or snows there?

Generally no snow, but it can snow. Last winter it snowed in parts of L.A. Last recorded Sacramento snow was in 2009 and the all time coldest temperature was 17 degrees.

It's definitely a 4 season city. It is cold and wet in the winter, hot and dry in the summer. Lows in the 30's in the winter, highs can reach 110 [during a heat wave] in the summer, but usually in the 90s.

If you want to see snow, just drive east on 80 or 50 and it won't be long before you gain elevation.

[suburbanite]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

OP's Question]

From an outside national perception, San Jose gets an undeserved bad rap, often overlooked and under appreciated for a city of it's size and industry.

Nobody doubts San Jose's size or economy, but when your economy is built around companies who tend towards sprawly campuses you're obviously not going to draw a ton of interest from people who are urban enthusiasts. I don't think it's rep as a city with a pretty underwhelming downtown and core neighbourhoods despite its size and economy is undeserved. Whether that matters to you is a different question.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by giallo

Brussels has a bad rap? I loved it there.

Brussels is considered cold, boring and transient. And that's before it became the European "capital". IMO the reputation is somewhat deserved, considering the embarrassment of urban riches in proximity.

From a tourist perspective, I don't think Brussels deserves more than a few hours, perhaps as a train layover. There are no world-class museums, cathedrals or monuments, and really the only must-see is the Grote Markt. Much of the streetscape consists of modern 70's-era office blocks. Antwerp, Bruges and Ghent are more interesting.

Brussels may also be the only major Western European city where wealth is heavily concentrated on the fringe.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

Columbus , oh (nicer than Indy)

Visit Columbus -- We're Nicer than Indy!

[pj3000]

Cleveland... arguably the most undeserving US city of a bad rap.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Cleveland... arguably the most undeserving US city of a bad rap.

I mean, given that Americans tend to like sunshine, sprawl, and new development, is it shocking that Cleveland doesn't have a glowing reputation?

It's a massive overachiever in terms of high culture (symphony, art, etc.) but I can't see any other obvious draw outside cheap real estate. There aren't too many walkable areas, heavily segregated with little diversity, lakefront is unimpressive, and downtown is fine but not amazing.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Chicago

Yes there are a lot of murders and it's baaaaad

But a legitimate point has been made that its murder rate per capita really isn't that high when compared to several other American cities that don't have that reputation

I agree. The fanaticism over Chicago's murder rate is really overblown. The murder rate there is very high relative to NYC and L.A., but mostly is in line with other industrial hubs still struggling to transition to the post-industrial era.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I agree. The fanaticism over Chicago's murder rate criticism is really overblown. The murder rate there is very high relative to NYC and L.A., but mostly is in line with other industrial hubs still struggling to transition to the post-industrial era.

Maybe it's because I grew up in the Midwest, but I never thought of Chicago has having a generally bad reputation. Yes, Trump and Fox News are always talking about Chicago murders, bizarrely trying to link them to Obama, but Midwesterners tend to like Chicago. It seems like half the Big 10 moves there after college, and summer weekends are filled with Midwestern visitors.

Perhaps away from the Midwest, Chicago sometimes has a bit of a bad rap, but I think it can be argued that Chicago is appropriately rated (or arguably overrated) in its immediate backyard. It's the "big city" for a huge share of the nation's population.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I mean, given that Americans tend to like sunshine, sprawl, and new development, is it shocking that Cleveland doesn't have a glowing reputation?

It's a massive overachiever in terms of high culture (symphony, art, etc.) but I can't see any other obvious draw outside cheap real estate. There aren't too many walkable areas, heavily segregated with little diversity, lakefront is unimpressive, and downtown is fine but not amazing.

Yeah, I'm not saying that Cleveland is paradise or anything. It certainly has its flaws. It just seems to have a national reputation as some complete hell on Earth... when there are FAR worse cities that don't have anywhere near the negative connotations with their names, IMO.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I agree. The fanaticism over Chicago's murder rate is really overblown. The murder rate there is very high relative to NYC and L.A., but mostly is in line with other industrial hubs still struggling to transition to the post-industrial era.

it's also important to remember that, like most other US cities, the street violence/homicide problem in chicago is very concentrated.

yes, chicago has a shamefully high number of murders, but so far this year, ~70% of them have been concentrated in just 18 community areas (out of chicago's 77), 5 on the far west side, and 11 on the far south side.

not coincidentally, those are also the 2 of the 7 "cities" within chicago (from the recent "tale of 7 cities" thread) that are also currently losing population.

because the human mind is oriented toward easy categorization and not nuanced understanding, too often people think of chicago as this giant 200 sq. mile swath of out and out gun violence, when the problem is really more like 40 sq. miles of out and out gun violence.

that fact is still horrendous, but gun violence does not dominate life in all areas of chicago as trump/fox news would have the simple-minded rubes out in the sticks fear.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by The North One

It does with certain groups of people.

You could say that about anywhere.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Maybe it's because I grew up in the Midwest, but I never thought of Chicago has having a generally bad reputation. Yes, Trump and Fox News are always talking about Chicago murders, bizarrely trying to link them to Obama, but Midwesterners tend to like Chicago. It seems like half the Big 10 moves there after college, and summer weekends are filled with Midwestern visitors.

Perhaps away from the Midwest, Chicago sometimes has a bit of a bad rap, but I think it can be argued that Chicago is appropriately rated (or arguably overrated) in its immediate backyard. It's the "big city" for a huge share of the nation's population.

I mostly agree here too. Chicago's image has definitely suffered from being Trump's punching bag, even among Midwesterners. Every time there's a random mass shooting a reflexive response among people of a certain political bent is now "but what about Chicago?"

I also think Chicago is a little overrated by Midwesterners, but this feels more a product of the late 90s/early 00s. As a native Detroiter, I don't recall these inferiority complexes about Chicago before Detroit went into its late 90s/00s collapse... But it could just be because Chicago was not a place that my family traveled to when I was a kid. Other than a couple layovers at the airport, I never set foot in Chicago until I was a young professional living in NYC.

[edale]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I mean, given that Americans tend to like sunshine, sprawl, and new development, is it shocking that Cleveland doesn't have a glowing reputation?

It's a massive overachiever in terms of high culture (symphony, art, etc.) but I can't see any other obvious draw outside cheap real estate. There aren't too many walkable areas, heavily segregated with little diversity, lakefront is unimpressive, and downtown is fine but not amazing.

Yeah, I agree with this. Cleveland does have some really nice areas, and some top notch cultural institutions (art museum, symphony, rock hall). But in terms of offering vibrant, walkable neighborhoods, there is very, very little to pick from. Almost all of the neighborhoods are characterized by very plain looking detached housing. Very little brick or ornamentation, very few functioning business districts...just kind of utilitarian. Downtown is clean but very quiet and hardly any street level retail, even when it comes to little corner stores and the like. You can walk for blocks in downtown Cleveland and not come across a single commercial use. That was shocking when I visited for the first time.

Ohio City is pretty nice. Never got the appeal of their other 'premier' neighborhood of Tremont, though. It has some nice restaurants and bars, but they feel just scattered throughout the neighborhood rather than forming any real district. And for all the hype I had seen about Tremont, I found it quite non-descript at best, ugly at worst. This doesn't seem like a neighborhood deserving of the hype it gets: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4805...7i13312!8i6656

That said, there is some cool stuff in Cleveland. I really like their Little Italy, even if it's tiny. I think Shaker Square is very cool and unique, and very pretty: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4835...7i13312!8i6656

Shaker Heights and Cleveland Heights are great inner suburbs, and are great areas to walk around. Lakewood isn't very pretty, but it's pretty dense and has some great bars and restaurants. There is definitely cool stuff throughout the Cleveland area, but you kind of have to work to find it. And a lot of the 'connective tissue' between the cool stuff is just boring/ugly. IMO.