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  #41  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2009, 5:21 PM
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Originally Posted by drew View Post
THe city is going to start getting a lot more flush with cash this next coming year, thanks to the increase in property values.

I am not sure how many here on SSP are homeowners, but my property taxes are going up about 18% next year. My house increased in value just a bit over the city wide average, so there will be a lot of people paying more next year.
So much for a Katz tax freeze every property owner in the city will now be paying hundreds more annually , this seems to have eluded local media.

Since banishing myself from the Winnipeg NHL thread, I have one more thing to say: Non-issue. It's handled internally. I'm not talking about it. Now what don't we understand about that?
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  #42  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2009, 8:01 PM
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Originally Posted by rrskylar View Post
So much for a Katz tax freeze every property owner in the city will now be paying hundreds more annually , this seems to have eluded local media.

Since banishing myself from the Winnipeg NHL thread, I have one more thing to say: Non-issue. It's handled internally. I'm not talking about it. Now what don't we understand about that?
Market based property taxes is normal for most Canadian Cities. In Calgary for the 9th straight year; taxes have increased not only for the market increase rate but also and average of 6% on top of that per year..

So, it is the "market value" of your house "tax increase", plus an "annual 6 % increase"... double whammy in Calgary!!

Winnipeg is still getting a 0% annual increase but you are getting a "market value" increase. The city would have to change the mill rate downward to keep taxes level and have a 0% annual increase. Highly unlikely..

This is oddly good news because it means your equity is raising faster than what you pay in taxes. I.E...if your house goes up 10K you may pay $200 more per year. Everyone here can do the math and see why you come out a head..
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  #43  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2009, 8:34 PM
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^ I understand the reasoning behind the increases, and really I think it's a good thing for the city. They get a massive increase in revenue stream based solely on the fact that the housing market has improved. There isn't any politicing involved. I just hope they use the additional funds wisely, and hopefully not blowing the wad on a police helicopter or any other useless toys.
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  #44  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2009, 9:19 PM
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the money will go right into the citys coffers for the big sewer projects going on right now..
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  #45  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2009, 1:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drew View Post
THe city is going to start getting a lot more flush with cash this next coming year, thanks to the increase in property values.

I am not sure how many here on SSP are homeowners, but my property taxes are going up about 18% next year. My house increased in value just a bit over the city wide average, so there will be a lot of people paying more next year.
My assessment went up too, but the mill rate hasn't been set yet has it? Until that happens i thought you can't tell what the taxes will be.
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  #46  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2009, 1:24 AM
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In what ways can you run a city using Keynesianism? Keynesianism is about smoothing out the boom and bust cycles of the economy and ensuring full employment. What kinds of monetary policies (ie: lowering interest rates, controlling money supply) can the city enact? Do they have some sort of central bank that I'm not aware of? In terms of fiscal policy, how do you expect the city to control aggregate demand? The city doesn't tax consumption, so are property taxes supposed to increase when times are good (which they don't, at least not right away)? As for spending, municipalities in Canada can't run a deficit on their operating budgets (I assume you would expect the city to control unemployment by hiring a larger workforce during a recession, which wouldn't be possible without an increase in revenues). Cities' main functions are to allocate resources (roads, services, etc). They are not in the domain of stabilization or redistribution (which is for federal and provincial governments), which is why I would argue that cities can't enact keynesian policies. In short, Keynesianism is a set of macroeconomic policies which can't be applied on the city scale. I would like to hear what you mean though, in terms of how cities can implement these policies...
Sorry I'm being a bit argumentative because i agree that cities aren't well positioned to implement Keynesian theory. You are right that they can't run operating deficits. But they can borrow billions for infrastructure during lean times if they want, and pay it off during good times. And tax rates can be adjusted annually if they so choose.

And doesn't every household go into more debt during bad times and save more during good times?
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  #47  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2009, 3:07 AM
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Originally Posted by flatlander View Post
My assessment went up too, but the mill rate hasn't been set yet has it? Until that happens i thought you can't tell what the taxes will be.
It must have been because I got a letter in the mail explaining how much my TIPP payments were going to be for 2010. It will be about $30 a month more than we are currently paying.

I suppose you'll be getting your own bad news letter soon enough.
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  #48  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2009, 8:05 AM
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Originally Posted by DowntownWpg View Post


Hum... interesting. I'm going to have to think about this for a while. Though my gut is telling me the feds are no better at handling debt than cities, but it is difficult to compare the levels in this regard.
There is not much to consider .. it is basic fact.

There are many reasons why the feds are better able to handle debt much more than cities. First and formost is there ability to finance debt is much better. The feds also have a much wider ability to generate revenue through taxation. The city is limited to only property taxes. Lastly cities, like Winnipeg are not even legally allowed issue new operational debt without the province signing off and for the most part this is not an option. Legally cities in Canada (including Winnipeg) are not really a separate level of government, it is only a sub-government of the province, without indepent means of taxation or law creation. Constitutional law makes this point very clear.

This along with a few other points including the difference in scale and bredth of economy makes the feds much better able to handle debt.
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  #49  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2009, 8:28 AM
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And it isn't necessarily flawed. You just have to have the political will to increase taxes and decrease spending in the good times, not just decrease taxes and increase spending in the bad times. Cities are definitely in a tougher position to implement Keynesian theory but in any case it requires political will.
Having studies Keynesian economics, the verdict is still out wether it even works on a national basis. John Keynes theory was linked to adding aggregate demand for labour. In fact if you look into his thoughts on stimulas it was of a limited nature. As you realize the fludity of manpower greatly reduces any effect of adding artifical stimulas to a city's economy.

It is much more complex than just increasing spending and decreasing taxes during bad years and vice versa during the good years.

Lastly many economists will argue that the factors that most impact the economy are longer term policies. Short term stimulas will be interpided by people as such and will not result in the benefits hoped by some. (ie; cash for clunkers was a failed policy).
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Last edited by newflyer; Dec 20, 2009 at 8:41 AM.
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  #50  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2009, 7:00 PM
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Originally Posted by drew View Post
^ I understand the reasoning behind the increases, and really I think it's a good thing for the city. They get a massive increase in revenue stream based solely on the fact that the housing market has improved. There isn't any politicing involved. I just hope they use the additional funds wisely, and hopefully not blowing the wad on a police helicopter or any other useless toys.
An increase in taxes is never a good thing period, that said basing taxation on current market values makes sense, although if homes prices did decline would the city rebate the overpayment. Winnipeg does need to decrease spending in a lot of areas before looking for new things to spend on such as $7 million gifts for private water parks, vanity helicopters that can't fly in the cold and tax free parking lots for a mayors ballpark.
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  #51  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2009, 11:23 PM
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Winnipeg needs more revenue. This is a good thing.
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  #52  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2009, 2:49 AM
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I was not aware the police helicopter could not fly in the cold. Where does this come from?

Assume it is true out of 365 days how many would it be too cold to fly in?
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  #53  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2009, 3:08 AM
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That depends on the helicopter. If they pick select the one that is being talked about: , the EC120, then it won't be able to operate when the temperature is below -40ºC and will not operate at optimum when the temperature is above 35ºC. It can't operate if the temperature is above 50ºC. All helicopters have operating limits. The one we're probably getting is a entry level model that is used by most other Canadian cities, but it seems to have a very good operational limit range.
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  #54  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2009, 5:14 AM
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All helicopters have temperature range in which they can be operated unless you are talking about a ship in the medium to heavy range. If it was up to me I'd use a light twin, and I wouldn't buy it, I'd lease it.
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  #55  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2009, 5:15 AM
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Assume it is true out of 365 days how many would it be too cold to fly in?
Exactly. Below -40 and above 50, 5-7 days a year perhaps.
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  #56  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2009, 6:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drew View Post
It must have been because I got a letter in the mail explaining how much my TIPP payments were going to be for 2010. It will be about $30 a month more than we are currently paying.

I suppose you'll be getting your own bad news letter soon enough.
how much did your house value increase from the last assessment to raise your taxes by 18%?....mine more than doubled, so i think i will be screwed.

it is annoying because eventhough my house value did go up, that doesnt really affect my ability to pay taxes on it every year...i still make the same amount of money and cant use the hypothetical equity in my house to pay taxes with....it comes straight out of my wages, which is a tax increase no matter how you slice it.....property values and the amont of money the city needs to plow the snow and pay cops their 6 figure salaries are not really related.

the whole thing would be solved by the province taking school taxes from general revenues and removing them from the property tax bill...there is no reason why property ownership and schools should be related in my opinion....schools are completely unaccountable and are the only non government group that can tax independantly...if they had to go to the government every year and explain their reasons for needing more money it would certainly be more difficult for them....now they just say "think about the children" and everyone says..."oh yeah the children.....of course the children....they need more money"

every citizen should pay for schools, just like they do for health care, roads, police etc....why are schools forced on the backs of property owners...it makes no sense.

i am sure schools will use the increase in property values to increase their grab as well....just because my house is worth more doesnt mean schools should magically be able to profit from it.




i also dont know about the supposed tax freeze anyways...my property tax bill is about 1/3 larger than it was when i bought the house 7 years ago....i guess the school thing has something to do with that.

Last edited by trueviking; Dec 21, 2009 at 6:12 AM.
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  #57  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2009, 6:25 AM
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Originally Posted by grumpy old man View Post
I was not aware the police helicopter could not fly in the cold. Where does this come from?

Assume it is true out of 365 days how many would it be too cold to fly in?
I have heard the cold limitation for the prospective police helicopter was -20, a good indicator is just how often OB's traffic helicopter is grounded becasue of the cold and ice fog. The use for Winnipeg's police helicopter I assume will be mostly at night when temperatures are colder. How often would the thing be grounded between Nov-March?
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  #58  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2009, 2:42 PM
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Originally Posted by trueviking View Post
how much did your house value increase from the last assessment to raise your taxes by 18%?....mine more than doubled, so i think i will be screwed.
Our house value increased 86.5%. The average city wide increase was 78%.
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  #59  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2009, 3:00 PM
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Originally Posted by rrskylar View Post
a good indicator is just how often OB's traffic helicopter is grounded becasue of the cold and ice fog.
Visibility issues yes, but cold no. The ship CJOB uses has an air cooled recip engine that has temp limitations where a police helo would have a jet engine. Jets love eating cold air!
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  #60  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2009, 4:33 PM
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Exactly. Below -40 and above 50, 5-7 days a year perhaps.
When is it ever below -40 and above 50? What the fuck planet are you on?
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