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  #41  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2009, 3:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Winnipegger@Heart View Post
To the adults who made their beds: screw 'em. They can either turn their lives around, or face jail for gang activity. Let's get the children on the right path.
I agree. This idea was IMO the basis for residential schools, which would have worked if it wasn't turned over to the Christians who turned it into a pediatric boink fest.

I think the bands just want a ransom, I wonder how much?
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  #42  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2009, 4:02 PM
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I agree. This idea was IMO the basis for residential schools, which would have worked if it wasn't turned over to the Christians who turned it into a pediatric boink fest.

I think the bands just want a ransom, I wonder how much?
IMO, residential schools were an act of assimilation. However, with that said, I'm sure my life would've turned out different if not for them. As my Grandmother attended and went on to become a nurse. I believe, generationally, my family has benefited from that.

Anyway, I mentioned the possibility of a joint-venture before, and what do we see in the FP today?

City, First Nation to ink joint-venture deal

While this doesn't involve the Kapyong Barracks, is does illustrate that such a venture is more than possible.
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  #43  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2009, 5:46 PM
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What about designating a part of Main Street? The area around Higgins and Main needs a major facelift with new investment. Let's see the area packed with low-rise offices, residential, etc. This could be a way to finally inject the area with investment.
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  #44  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2009, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Winnipegger@Heart View Post
What about designating a part of Main Street? The area around Higgins and Main needs a major facelift with new investment. Let's see the area packed with low-rise offices, residential, etc. This could be a way to finally inject the area with investment.
They still owe a ton of back-taxes for the tee pee on Main at Higgins.

Mismanagement of money...........go on cruises........etc etc.

Everyone knows the truth.

The residents of Tuxedo will not allow that land to be wasted by you know who.

Bring back the army.
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  #45  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2009, 12:05 AM
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Bring back the army.
I'd like that! Liberals never should have shipped 2PPCLI off to Shilo to begin with.
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  #46  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2009, 1:22 AM
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I am still of the mindset that this land has HUGE potencial. Its just a shame that it has turned into a political football.

Of course things like this should not be held up by ridiculous delays and really the necessity to exam and auditing first nations should be put on the front burner. I am sure they consider this an easy game of forcing there will on the citizens of Manitoba, but I don't really think they live in the real world.

With all the billions which has flowed out and the complete lack of results needs to be examined with a magnified glass. I am sure many first nations would not invite such a audit... but responsible use of tax dollars needs to be inforced. Every dollar needs to be accounted for.... no cruises. Sadly this is a race welfare system, which I expect has been misused and abused, but has somehow been given a blind eye. Honestly there has to be a better way.
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  #47  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2009, 1:44 AM
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They still owe a ton of back-taxes for the tee pee on Main at Higgins.
You are a very ignorant person. I understand the anonymity of posting in forums allows someone to be more open with their opinions, but how you do business with anyone with that type of personality is beyond me. Oh well, kudos to you I guess...
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  #48  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2009, 1:48 AM
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Well, it might do certain elements in the native leadership good to have a project that isn't hidden away in some backwater. Maybe if they know that everyone's watching, hands will stay out of the cookie jar and everyone will win.
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  #49  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2009, 1:50 AM
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With all the billions which has flowed out and the complete lack of results needs to be examined with a magnified glass. I am sure many first nations would not invite such a audit... but responsible use of tax dollars needs to be inforced. Every dollar needs to be accounted for.... no cruises. Sadly this is a race welfare system, which I expect has been misused and abused, but has somehow been given a blind eye. Honestly there has to be a better way.
Nor would Hydro apparently. Hydro secrets set to emerge?

I agree though, the fiscal responsibility of many band councils leaves much to be desired. An area of improvement would be to get properly educated people in the positions of power. I see this changing for the better already.
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  #50  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2009, 5:51 AM
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Well, it might do certain elements in the native leadership good to have a project that isn't hidden away in some backwater. Maybe if they know that everyone's watching, hands will stay out of the cookie jar and everyone will win.


Your under the impression that everyone is equal in first nations communities, dictatorship and absolute monarchy are the best ways to describe what many first nations have.

Many of you have no clue what first nations bands own yet many have residents living in third world conditions, but put the blame on the govt. for not doing enough.
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  #51  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2009, 4:09 PM
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On one hand, reserves need to be abolished, but on the other, many First Nations people like life on the reserve; the caveat is that there needs to be jobs. The idea of abolishing reserves, and having residents relocate to urban centres is one that can be deemed as a way to force assimilation. I think Aboriginals CAN leave the reserve AND retain their culture because we see this in Immigration. The Filipino population in Winnipeg is very high, and they are thriving, and have not had to give up their culture. There needs to be the leadership in the Aboriginal community to build the cultural centres, etc so Aboriginals can hold on to their culture. This needs to be born from them; not government. Where there is a will, there is a way...

It is just so sad that we are still trying to fix the reserve system. Perhaps Aboriginal leaders, and the federal government, and X number of Aboriginals from across the country can hold a forum to finally find a solution. All we seem to hear is that conditions on reserves are bad; they need more money. To me, that is not a solution.
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  #52  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2009, 4:23 PM
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The reality is that we have to let the law work. We can't always do things exactly the way we want unfortunately, and in this case, we're simply going to have to wait and see.
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  #53  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2009, 4:25 PM
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i heard on ctv that the bands involved were willing to give up the land for a settlement so it doesn't mean this thing is a done deal yet, i think urban reserves would work in winnipeg but only as a bedroom community around the edge of the city this way communities inside winnipeg would not have much to worry about and the bands would have more room to develop and would have imediate access to winnipeg.
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  #54  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2009, 5:53 PM
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I bet there's a solution to this sooner rather than later. On that note:
Quote:
No need to appeal Kapyong

By: Staff Writer

3/10/2009 1:00 AM

A federal court judge has summarily dismissed the federal government's defence for not giving a couple of First Nation bands the chance to acquire the abandoned Kapyong Barracks property. The land is a developer's dream, but it is also encumbered by a Crown obligation to make good on a deal signed 138 years ago.

Two First Nations, Peguis and Brokenhead, have outstanding land entitlements from treaties signed at Lower Fort Garry in 1871 with treaty commissioners. The First Nations ceded traditional land in exchange for reserves, the size of which was based on a per capita formula. Not all bands got the land owed to them. "The aboriginal people kept their side of the bargain, but Canada did not. This fact is the single most important feature of the contemporary land dispute which is at the centre of the present application," Judge Douglas Campbell wrote this week.

The government insisted that in signing a treaty land entitlement agreement with Manitoba First Nations in 1998, it was freed from its obligation to negotiate when federal lands became surplus, and had no duty to consult with bands that might be interested in Kapyong land. Under treaty land entitlement agreements, Ottawa sets aside money so First Nations can purchase Crown land when it becomes available. Judge Campbell gave short shrift to the federal position, saying the agreements become the method by which Ottawa fulfills its treaty obligations. The duty to consult, and accommodate a settlement where possible, continues.

The land in question is some of the most valuable in Winnipeg, tucked in between River Heights and Tuxedo, along Kenaston Boulevard. Land in the area is growing scarce, with the development of Waverley West all sewn up. Its undeveloped value may require the two bands to hook up with partners -- their application to the court was made with five other southern Manitoba bands.

Treasury Board President Vic Toews, who in 2007 ordered the first parcel of the Kapyong land be sold to the federal Canada Lands Company, has not said as yet if the judgment will be appealed. He should think hard about that. Already the barracks -- minus the houses of the federal holdings -- has been tied up at considerable expense since 2004, when 2PPCLI moved out for Shilo. If the treaty commissioners had displayed such intransigence, settlement would have dragged out and development of Manitoba would have been delayed.

An appeal would amount to pleading a case that was dismissed with near derision by an experienced, respected jurist. Judge Campbell spent much of his 25-page decision recalling the weight of judicial opinion that has reminded Canadians and public office holders time and again that the Crown went willingly and with honour to treat with native people, who were being crowded out by the influx of Europeans.

The Crown recognized that it was in no one's interest to draw out a protracted battle; indeed, it would have been wrong and unnecessary. Mr. Toews should take a page from the lessons of history. The federal government would do Manitoba and Canada a service by consulting with and working to accommodate, as far as practicable, the interests of the Brokenhead and Peguis First Nations.

Republished from the Winnipeg Free Press print edition October 3, 2009
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  #55  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2009, 3:02 AM
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I have no problem with the idea of this becoming a First Nations operation. What would be best for everybody though would for it to not become part of an urban reserve but a native development.

I'll be honest : The idea of an urban reserve along Kenaston appeals to me as much as Manitoba Housing's grand plans to include "affordable housing" in upscale developments. It's just a fact : the poor bring crime. This isn't news to anybody so it shouldn't come as a surprise that nobody wants to live next to a newly planned ghetto.
If a First Nation can develop a high-end product and sell it exclusively at fair market value to natives , nobody is going to have a problem with that. We all know that there simply aren't enough well-off natives to meet the demand requirements. Not here and not now anyway.

Any First Nation(s) that want to develop the land are welcome to do so as far as I'm concerned but it should be stipulated that no development should have an unreasonably negative impact on surrounding land values. In the long term , land values should rise in fact. Setting up a reserve (as people understand them) is NOT going to have a positive impact on the area. In fact , it would be a disaster. No different than putting up a trailer park on the land. Sorry ,...it's just the reality of the world. Putting the land's development into the hands of any reserve doesn't bother me in the least but like any development , we want to know what the plans are. Nobody wants a ghetto next door and that includes aboriginals already living there.
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  #56  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2009, 3:21 AM
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do any of the first nations groups that are viaing for this have the funds to even do anything with the land?
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  #57  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2009, 3:31 AM
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If a First Nation can develop a high-end product and sell it exclusively at fair market value to natives , nobody is going to have a problem with that. We all know that there simply aren't enough well-off natives to meet the demand requirements.
Therein lies the reason they would want to develop that land: being able to sell product or services to non-natives. A high traffic location on the boulevard connecting Polo Park and the wealthier south west of Winnipeg. They really don't want to build housing there. Education, perhaps, but retail and office space. It could be a real money pit for the elders of those bands. They might even give some of their people jobs. It's wouldn't do a thing for the poverty levels of first nations peoples living in the City already or to combat the gang problems, although it could spread them out of the core areas of the city.
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  #58  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2009, 3:34 AM
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they already are spread out of the city look at manitoba warioes they are a national gang now............
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  #59  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2009, 12:19 PM
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they already are spread out of the city look at manitoba warioes they are a national gang now............
Do we get to count that on our "head office" list???
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  #60  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2009, 3:04 PM
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Do we get to count that on our "head office" list???
I wonder if they'd like to sponsor an NHL franchise?
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