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  #1201  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2014, 10:46 PM
bomberjet bomberjet is offline
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Originally Posted by Andy6 View Post
True, although a lot of people I know in Toronto (where I am) really enjoy their commute time. The GO Train is a whole social environment of its own. Lots of people like the quiet time sitting in their car listening to music or the radio. It's their thinking time, no-kids time or whatever. There can be bad days but it's always been surprising to me how many people with long commutes here seem not to mind them.
My only alone time is car rides to/from work. So I could completely understand that!
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  #1202  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2014, 12:46 AM
yellowghost yellowghost is offline
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I say don't build until we have enough money to connect it to mcphillips and main street with interchanges with NO stops in between. If it proceeds half-ass style, I see no reason to get excited about it.
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  #1203  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2014, 1:02 AM
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Originally Posted by rrskylar View Post
Heard there's money for the CP Trail extension to McPhillips in the new Katz/NDP five year plan.
So within 5 years, the extension may happen. Not going to hold my breath though, considering the powers that be will not be in power for so long (which is another topic to discuss).

Hate to say it, but if it does get built, they're going to go do it, with or without the interchanges.

But as a compromise, I'd say delay building the extension, and use whatever existing budget to built the interchanges where it's needed most, like Lagimodiere/CPT, and Gateway/CPT for example.
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  #1204  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2014, 6:15 AM
CoryB CoryB is offline
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The fact is that CPT from 90 to 59 has been deemed a strategic transportation corridor that is vital to the success of CentrePort. Council has already voted to fast track the construction giving it something like a 2016 completion target. The folks behind CentrePort has all three levels of government committed to their vision.

As for interchanges, I think the route 90/Sterling Lyon Parkway expansion is the clearest proof yet that new interchanges inside this city are an extinct species. As a city, and also a province, the deficit on basic road construction/maintenance is significant. The cost of interchanges is high for a very localized impact. Further, most Manitobans have come to accept that we don't have interchanges and freeways here. Just look at how long we have been waiting for the 59/Perimeter interchange to be built. All this means it is easy to spend the limited dollars building and fixing more km of roads than it is to start addressing the interchange issue.
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  #1205  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2014, 3:40 AM
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Originally Posted by CoryB View Post
The fact is that CPT from 90 to 59 has been deemed a strategic transportation corridor that is vital to the success of CentrePort. Council has already voted to fast track the construction giving it something like a 2016 completion target. The folks behind CentrePort has all three levels of government committed to their vision.

As for interchanges, I think the route 90/Sterling Lyon Parkway expansion is the clearest proof yet that new interchanges inside this city are an extinct species. As a city, and also a province, the deficit on basic road construction/maintenance is significant. The cost of interchanges is high for a very localized impact. Further, most Manitobans have come to accept that we don't have interchanges and freeways here. Just look at how long we have been waiting for the 59/Perimeter interchange to be built. All this means it is easy to spend the limited dollars building and fixing more km of roads than it is to start addressing the interchange issue.
That's a good point, but have we also accepted on not having interchanges in terms of safety? Lagimodiere/59 and North Perimeter is a bit infamous from a safety standpoint.

We'll continue to take it as it is, but that intersection/interchange hybrid can't be left as it is forever.

As for the city interchanges, you may be right on that, sadly.
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  #1206  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2014, 4:55 AM
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Originally Posted by The Jabroni View Post
As for the city interchanges, you may be right on that, sadly.
The only new interchange built inside the city over the past 25 years that I can think of is the one at Bishop Grandin and Pembina. I guess the one at Kenaston and Bishop Grandin will finally break that dry spell, even if it is somewhat of a half-baked interchange.

Just about every interchange in the city dates back to the pre-Unicity days.
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  #1207  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2014, 6:16 AM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
The only new interchange built inside the city over the past 25 years that I can think of is the one at Bishop Grandin and Pembina. I guess the one at Kenaston and Bishop Grandin will finally break that dry spell, even if it is somewhat of a half-baked interchange.

Just about every interchange in the city dates back to the pre-Unicity days.
Also, the one at Bishop and Kenaston that you mention will be only the third interchange in the City (that I can think of) that isn't directly related to a rail or river crossing (or on the Perimeter).
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  #1208  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2014, 3:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Bdog View Post
Also, the one at Bishop and Kenaston that you mention will be only the third interchange in the City (that I can think of) that isn't directly related to a rail or river crossing (or on the Perimeter).
I am struggling with both listing interchanges inside the city and those that do not involve river or rail crossings.

My list:

Pembina and Bishop (both river and rail)
Concorida Overpass (rail)
Portage and Route 90 (rail - retired and river)

Beyond those I can't even think of any interchanges.
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  #1209  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2014, 4:01 PM
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Originally Posted by CoryB View Post
I am struggling with both listing interchanges inside the city and those that do not involve river or rail crossings.

My list:

Pembina and Bishop (both river and rail)
Concorida Overpass (rail)
Portage and Route 90 (rail - retired and river)

Beyond those I can't even think of any interchanges.
If you ask me, Winnipeg has only 2 true interchanges within city limits;

Route 90 and Portage
Bishop and Pembina

Both involve two major streets and are far enough away from the river crossing that validates them as being an actual interchange. I find this pretty embarrassing for a city of almost 800,000 that tries to sell itself as a transport and shipping hub.
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  #1210  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2014, 4:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Biff View Post
If you ask me, Winnipeg has only 2 true interchanges within city limits;

Route 90 and Portage
Bishop and Pembina

Both involve two major streets and are far enough away from the river crossing that validates them as being an actual interchange. I find this pretty embarrassing for a city of almost 800,000 that tries to sell itself as a transport and shipping hub.
^Yep, those are the two I was referring to. Even the new one at Bishop and Kenaston could be considered more of a flyover than an actual interchange.
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  #1211  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2014, 4:40 PM
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The grand esquire list of all ten City of Winnipeg interchanges, excluding the ones on the Perimeter, but including the half-assed ones with traffic lights or that basically just run under river crossings:

Pembina and Bishop Grandin
Pembina and Jubilee
Portage and Empress
Portage and Route 90
Kenaston and Bishop Grandin
Lagimodiere and Concordia
Disraeli and Sutherland
Disraeli and Midwinter
Dunkirk and Kingston Row
Donald and Assiniboine

Adding the Perimeter and other provincial highways gives you eight more provincially built and maintained interchanges within or right on the edge of the city limits:

Lagimodiere and South Perimeter
Pembina and South Perimeter
Wilkes and South Perimeter
Roblin and South Perimeter
Portage and South Perimeter
Centreport Canada Way and North Perimeter
Fermor and Plessis
Lagimodiere and Prairie Grove

So that's 18 interchanges total within City limits. Even if you add the Perimeter interchanges outside city limits you still only get up to 24 for the entire metropolitan area, which is a couple more than there are just on the Deerfoot Trail in Calgary.

Last edited by esquire; Mar 7, 2014 at 4:54 PM. Reason: List amended to add an interchange
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  #1212  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2014, 4:49 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
The grand esquire list of all nine City of Winnipeg interchanges, excluding the ones on the Perimeter, but including the half-assed ones with traffic lights or that basically just run under river crossings:

Pembina and Bishop Grandin
Pembina and Jubilee
Portage and Empress
Portage and Route 90
Kenaston and Bishop Grandin
Lagimodiere and Concordia
Disraeli and Sutherland
Disraeli and Midwinter
Dunkirk and Kingston Row

Adding the Perimeter and other provincial highways gives you eight more provincially built and maintained interchanges within or right on the edge of the city limits:

Lagimodiere and South Perimeter
Pembina and South Perimeter
Wilkes and South Perimeter
Roblin and South Perimeter
Portage and South Perimeter
Centreport Canada Way and North Perimeter
Fermor and Plessis
Lagimodiere and Prairie Grove

So that's 17 interchanges total within City limits. Even if you add the Perimeter interchanges outside city limits you still only get up to 23 for the entire metropolitan area, which is about as many as there are just on the Deerfoot Trail in Calgary.
Don’t forget Donald and Assiniboine lol.
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  #1213  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2014, 4:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Bdog View Post
Don’t forget Donald and Assiniboine lol.
How could I overlook that beast of an interchange

I will amend the list!
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  #1214  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2014, 5:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Biff View Post
I find this pretty embarrassing for a city of almost 800,000 that tries to sell itself as a transport and shipping hub.


It is frightfully embarrassing. What is even worse is that there are those who consider this embarrassment a good thing.
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  #1215  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2014, 6:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
It is frightfully embarrassing. What is even worse is that there are those who consider this embarrassment a good thing.
Lack of proper rapid transit and the people who consider that embarrassment a good thing are no less embarrassing. This city has a lot of work to do.
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  #1216  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2014, 6:52 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
Lack of proper rapid transit and the people who consider that embarrassment a good thing are no less embarrassing. This city has a lot of work to do.
In this city it seems that it's either we have adequate roadways OR rapid transit. What's wrong with having both?

The current roadways can't handle the volume of traffic we have right now so that part of any transportation plan Winnipeg once had is a FAIL.

Rapid transit on it's lone route is still not completed, another FAIL.
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  #1217  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2014, 7:01 PM
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Not counting Highway 1--which only grazes Vancouver, like our Perimeter--Vancouver has about 11 interchanges. All but one are related to crossing water or rail lines, and the one that doesn't probably isn't long for this world.Highway 1 has about 4 interchanges inside Vancouver.

Vancouver is a major port--far more of a transportation hub than Winnipeg could ever hope to be, whatever bullshit inland port schemes our friends on Broadway try to sell us. Now I'm not saying that Winnipeg shouldn't limp towards getting its inner-ring road into some semblance of non-shit, but consider this:

Would you rather Winnipeg follow the lead of Vancouver, a city that furiously blocked freeway construction and has only become more dense and vibrant for it--even before the Skytrain or Hong Kong money--or Calgary, a boring city with interminable sprawl that's only now starting to turn things around?

That's a rhetorical question. It's something to think about next time you drive through some other cruddy sprawl town and feel like Winnipeg's dick is small.
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  #1218  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2014, 8:37 PM
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^^^ I am not advocating for the construction of any freeways that cut through or destroy existing neighborhoods. What I would like to see is the upgrades to existing routes: Lagimodiere, Chief Peguis, Bishop Grandin, Route 90, the Perimeter and Hwy 75 be built to freeway standards.

I also don't want to argue about this point but although Vancouver proper has no freeways in the city there are a number of freeways in the metro area: East West Connector, Annacis Hwy, Vancouver Blaine Hwy and the Number 1 Hwy that essentially goes north/south through metro Vancouver. My point is that Winnipeg (or Manitoba) does not have one single freeway standard roadway anywhere. Truckers must just shake their heads anytime they have to enter this Province/City.
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  #1219  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2014, 9:50 PM
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No argument there, Biff. For my dollar though I'd say upgrading the Perimeter and bypassing Headingly are still greater priorities than anything inside the city. It would have been nice to see the Province invest in that instead of its centreport highway to nowhere.
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  #1220  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2014, 12:27 AM
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No argument there, Biff. For my dollar though I'd say upgrading the Perimeter and bypassing Headingly are still greater priorities than anything inside the city. It would have been nice to see the Province invest in that instead of its centreport highway to nowhere.
Well, in some sense, that is what we are getting. This most recent budget there is money for the Headingley bypass which will feature 2 interchanges: a small diamond somewhere in the middle as a connector to Portage and a grade separated interchange for the connection to Hwy 1 around the White Horse - approx $250 million.

The south Perimeter is also getting its first phase of median widening from St Mary's east to Hwy 1 and possibly interchange grading at St Mary's, St Anne's and Waverley - approx $250 million.
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