Winnipeg City Transit/Rapid Transit

[vid]

GLT is a terrible system. I don't even know why Bombardier wastes their time with it. It's quite possibly the worst mass transit system ever invented.

Honestly, you would be better off with a BRT than GLT.

[Andy6]

Could they just paint a fake rail on the street and run ordinary buses over it? Maybe they could give the bus driver a conductor's hat and he could say "All Aboard!" at each stop and toot a fake train horn. I have a feeling this is mostly about the image anyway so why not concentrate on the appearance rather than the extremely expensive reality of LRTs.

[Greco Roman]

Originally Posted by Andy6

Could they just paint a fake rail on the street and run ordinary buses over it? Maybe they could give the bus driver a conductor's hat and he could say "All Aboard!" at each stop and toot a fake train horn. I have a feeling this is mostly about the image anyway so why not concentrate on the appearance rather than the extremely expensive reality of LRTs.

Ya fine whatever. Tell me a city that doesn't have such systems with even a small amount of image in mind. It really isn't fair to single out Winnipeg in that regard.

Anywho, why can't anyone answer this question:

If smaller cities like Spokane and Saskatoon are planning for LRT's in their future, why can't Winnipeg?

No one seems to want to respond with an answer to this question. Strange, eh?

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by Andy6

Could they just paint a fake rail on the street and run ordinary buses over it? Maybe they could give the bus driver a conductor's hat and he could say "All Aboard!" at each stop and toot a fake train horn. I have a feeling this is mostly about the image anyway so why not concentrate on the appearance rather than the extremely expensive reality of LRTs.

LMAO!

That is SO TRUE about Winnipeggers.

They want an LRT because it is will be a shiny new train and hate the BRT idea because they hate riding the bus to begin with.

Winnipeggers don't want a new faster form of public transit. They just want a train at all costs.

If they really cared about rapid transit they would be happy about the possibility of a BRT system.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by Greco Roman

Ya fine whatever. Tell me a city that doesn't have such systems with even a small amount of image in mind. It really isn't fair to single out Winnipeg in that regard.

Anywho, why can't anyone answer this question:

If smaller cities like Spokane and Saskatoon are planning for LRT's in their future, why can't Winnipeg?

No one seems to want to respond with an answer to this question. Strange, eh?

Possible reasons might be the varying physical layouts or work/traffic patterns of the cities, climate considerations, etc. And politicians talking about planning for LRT in the future isn't the same as having an LRT.

[Greco Roman]

Originally Posted by h0twired

LMAO!

That is SO TRUE about Winnipeggers.

They want an LRT because it is will be a shiny new train and hate the BRT idea because they hate riding the bus to begin with.

Winnipeggers don't want a new faster form of public transit. They just want a train at all costs.

If they really cared about rapid transit they would be happy about the possibility of a BRT system.

Alright man. That's enough. No need for mocking and ridicule.

[Greco Roman]

Originally Posted by Andy6

Possible reasons might be the varying physical layouts or work/traffic patterns of the cities, climate considerations, etc. And politicians talking about planning for LRT in the future isn't the same as having an LRT.

Actually, from what I understand, Spokane will begin construction in the next few years, and if approved in Saskatoon, they will start construction when the pop hits about 400,000 or so.

Spokane is just over 400,000 metrowise.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by Greco Roman

Actually, from what I understand, Spokane will begin construction in the next few years, and if approved in Saskatoon, they will start construction when the pop hits about 400,000 or so.

Spokane is just over 400,000 metrowise.

Even smaller cities could have big concentrations of population that lend themselves to a major transportation route. For example, I could see it in Halifax, where there is a heavy concentration of commuter traffic along a single linear corridor leading into a central core that has only a few points of entry. Winnipeg fans out in all directions without a critical mass of potential users in any one place, and the rivers get in the way of the feeder routes that would be necessary to create the critical mass of ridership. Possibly Pembina Highway comes close to a workable corridor for LRT but I have my doubts. It would be nice to have an LRT in Winnipeg, of course. But coming from Toronto, where the subway system is a major perpetual drain on the city's finances, it is perhaps easier for me to look at these things more sceptically.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by Greco Roman

Ya fine whatever. Tell me a city that doesn't have such systems with even a small amount of image in mind. It really isn't fair to single out Winnipeg in that regard.

Anywho, why can't anyone answer this question:

If smaller cities like Spokane and Saskatoon are planning for LRT's in their future, why can't Winnipeg?

No one seems to want to respond with an answer to this question. Strange, eh?

saskatoon can plan all they want...they will never build an LRT.....and their population wont be 400k for another 40 years at least....there will probably be something better by then.

i dont know about spokane, but how many cities of 700 000 or less have LRT?...not many.

[flatlander]

I don't understand you guys who can't tell the difference in ride quality between BRT and LRT. It is significant. You get what you pay for.

[Spocket]

I'm very glad to hear some forumers state unequivocably that they want the best for their city. I , for one, just don't understand why BRT seems so much less desirable than LRT though. Really it's a great idea and is the only realistic solution for a city that doesn't necessarily need any form of rapid transit in the first place. We "need" rapid transit only because it's something of a chicken and egg argument where somebody is going to have to build one first to get the other (in this case, the other being higher density corridors and therefore a more sustainable urban form)

[LilZebra]

Originally Posted by flatlander

I don't understand you guys who can't tell the difference in ride quality between BRT and LRT. It is significant. You get what you pay for.

The BRTers are those that consider a nice trip out of the city is one where they stay in a tent at a campground.

The LRT (and subway) people are those that consider a nice trip out of the city is one where they stay in a backpackers hostel, urban motel, or B&B inside a city.

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

[LilZebra]

Originally Posted by Spocket

I'm very glad to hear some forumers state unequivocably that they want the best for their city. I , for one, just don't understand why BRT seems so much less desirable than LRT though. Really it's a great idea and is the only realistic solution for a city that doesn't necessarily need any form of rapid transit in the first place. We "need" rapid transit only because it's something of a chicken and egg argument where somebody is going to have to build one first to get the other (in this case, the other being higher density corridors and therefore a more sustainable urban form)

Spoket, do you work for Winnipeg Transit or New Flyer or maybe have stock in one of the oil companies?

[flatlander]

Why is BRT less desirable? Let me begin by acknowledging that maybe BRT is all we can afford and is best suited for our context.

But as someone who rode the 78 Waverley to University along Bishop Grandin, it's pretty hard to get excited about a bumpy, noisy ride. Compare that to the quite, clean, smooth ride of an LRT. There is no comparison.

[LilZebra]

Originally Posted by trueviking

^portage for sure....it really makes little sense to end at the forks...the most important destination would be to the graham avenue transit corridor....traffic to the forks is 1% of commuter traffic to downtown every day.

i hear rumours that this could be a system that is being considered.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombard..._Light_Transit

I hear teleportation is another system being considered. However it may not happen within our lifetimes.

Hence, the next best solution for moving people in metropolitan Winnipeg -- underground rail rapid transit.

[hexrae]

At $187 million, undergoing rail transit will get us from The Forks to...Confusion corner, if that? I understand the issues surrounding BRT, but do we think a dedicted busway won't get it's own dedicated snow and ice removal?

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by jimj_wpg

Hence, the next best solution for moving people in metropolitan Winnipeg -- underground rail rapid transit.

meanwhile, in the real world....

[Reed Solomon]

having looked more into it, the Bombardier things seem to use a proprietary rail system that isn't compatible with LRT lines, so that eliminates it immediately for me. If we had to get these things, I'd want to have the option of eventually using light rail. Plus if they don't work in the snow (You'd think Bombardier of all companies could get over that hangup) then meh. Still, People hate the bus. People will ride light rail that won't take the bus.

What makes LRT so much more expensive?

[Reed Solomon]

Originally Posted by trueviking

meanwhile, in the real world....

options for Winnipeg rapid transit:

Light Rail
Bus rapid transit
Giant slingshots
Series of Tubes
Teleportation Pods
Subway
Monorail
Great Glass Elevator
Unicorns.

I think we can eliminate a Subway, Monorail, Light Rail, and Unicorns as prohibitably expensive. The rest though, are easily achievable.

[tygunn]

Originally Posted by flatlander

I don't understand you guys who can't tell the difference in ride quality between BRT and LRT. It is significant. You get what you pay for.

Agreed completely. Having rode the LRT in Calgary and the subway in Toronto, both offer infinitely better rides than a bus can. In the case of LRT I noticed that the system is also so much more silent than a bus system.

Another reason I've always been disappointed with BRT as a solution for Winnipeg is that doesn't take advantage of our province's inexpensive and green hydroelectric (and wind) power. The price of gas and diesel is only going to keep going up. What better way to showcase our "green" province than an ell electric LRT system.

Sure BRT _COULD_ be upgraded to LRT down the line. But we all know that will NEVER happen. Temporary solutions in this city have a proven track record of becoming permanent.