Malls

[photoLith]

I live in Pittsburgh and there are many dead and or dying 1960s to early 2000s dying malls. I find them fascinating. I grew up in malls in the early 2000s in Houston, TX. The local mall to me was the Deerbrook Mall; which opened in 1984 (I worked as a model at the Hollister there in 2004-05, ridiculous I know). Now its another dying mall and is home to crime and closing anchor tenants.

Anyways, post malls near you, dying or otherwise. Here are some iPhone photos I took this Sunday of the failed and or failing Galleria at Pittsburgh Mills; which was built in 2005 as the last major mall built in America and the 22nd largest mall in the US. It now sits 90% or so vacant and JC Penney is closing and the theater is also now never opening again; nailing the last nail in the coffin to this once valued at 190 million dollar mall. It is now valued at around 6 million dollars and was sold in 2017 in a sheriffs sale for $100 to the bank who owned the original 192 million dollar mortgage on it in 2005.

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105039395_2629358860612301_7527640790530218988_o by photolitherland, on Flickr

106032289_2629358900612297_723995538062731511_o by photolitherland, on Flickr

105897052_2629358940612293_5013160611518761023_o by photolitherland, on Flickr

106061102_2629358960612291_7528349352188117850_o by photolitherland, on Flickr

104997838_2629358993945621_68253616102671584_o by photolitherland, on Flickr

104985864_2629358997278954_8634886912767014127_o by photolitherland, on Flickr

105276417_2629359057278948_4546963149203691502_o by photolitherland, on Flickr

105013233_2629359077278946_4129621378870384832_o by photolitherland, on Flickr

104750763_2629359110612276_1329461463165966678_o by photolitherland, on Flickr

104971832_2629359117278942_8281338840437804335_o by photolitherland, on Flickr

105906696_2629359153945605_508945027106968586_o by photolitherland, on Flickr

105038853_2629359170612270_3895174451074710640_o by photolitherland, on Flickr

105797502_2629359217278932_899736343644269816_o by photolitherland, on Flickr

104896363_2629359220612265_2705202592984569885_o by photolitherland, on Flickr

105968001_2629359253945595_4999197897180567442_o by photolitherland, on Flickr

104997827_2629359283945592_2913801508575939773_o by photolitherland, on Flickr

105968163_2629359317278922_142127754167944553_o by photolitherland, on Flickr

105400161_2629359320612255_866562874433510903_o by photolitherland, on Flickr

[westak]

I find them fascinating as well. The mall of my youth is the now infamous Rolling Acres. This mall you've captured is fascinating to me since it is a "Mills" mall and I 've only ever been to thriving versions of these malls. I believe there's a failing version of the Mills mall in Cincinatti or St. Louis(or maybe both) as well.

[Yuri]

Dying malls is a very recurrent subject in the US centric discussions. All US shopping malls are dying or there are many still thriving? What’s the proportion? What set apart dying malls and thriving ones? Location, urban typology, socioeconomics?

[MolsonExport]

Mega thread on Dead Malls of Canada: https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=130447

[pj3000]

Millcreek Mall in Erie, Pennsylvania. It was the largest shopping mall in the US when built in the mid-1970s. When I went there as a kid in the 1980s, it was huge, and filled with smoke, heavy metal, and breakdancing. I loved it.

It is owned by the mafia and shaped like a gun.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by yuriandrade

Dying malls is a very recurrent subject in the US centric discussions. All US shopping malls are dying or there are many still thriving? What’s the proportion? What set apart dying malls and thriving ones? Location, urban typology, socioeconomics?

Single purpose malls aren't doing well. After the pandemic, a lot of them will become defunct due to the contraction of department stores and retail chains. I wouldn't be surprised to see 50-75% of those go away within 5 years. Malls built around mixed use structures, such as transit hubs or office buildings, will probably be okay long term.

[SteveD]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Millcreek Mall in Erie, Pennsylvania. It was the largest shopping mall in the US when built in the mid-1970s. When I went there as a kid in the 1980s, it was huge, and filled with smoke, heavy metal, and breakdancing. I loved it.

It is owned by the mafia and shaped like a gun.

haha...wow I never knew that. I lived in Erie for exactly 9 months during my senior high school year in 1979/1980. I was at that mall countless times. My senior year was at Strong Vincent High School, although half of my classes were off-site at Gannon University.

[JManc]

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[pj3000]

Originally Posted by SteveD

haha...wow I never knew that. I lived in Erie for exactly 9 months during my senior high school year in 1979/1980. I was at that mall countless times. My senior year was at Strong Vincent High School, although half of my classes were off-site at Gannon University.

Urban legend is that the gun is pointed at city hall in downtown Erie because the mall's mafia owners from Youngstown had a beef with the mayor at the time, Lou Tullio, over his freezing them out of large federally-funded construction grant contracts in the city of Erie.

I haven't been inside the Millcreek Mall in well over a decade. It's really a pretty ridiculously-sized mall for a city the size of Erie... and in the 70s, it led to downtown's complete demise as a retail destination. It's over 2.2M sq ft. plus another 2M sq ft of retail in the plazas surrounding it on mall property. I guess it serves as a retail hub for a large area, including the areas of SW NY and NE Ohio which don't head for Buffalo or Cleveland.


Some memories: Do you remember the sunken "lounge" areas in the middle of the main concourses, where there were benches, small tables with built-in ashtrays, and payphones? Dudes used to sit on the half-walls of those things and catcall at the chicks going by. Or those huge umbrella sculpture/funky light fixtures in main concourse that were hanging from the ceiling like 50 ft up? Impromptu breakdancing competitions usually took place by one of the fountains. My ideal Saturday at the mall was a Hot Sam pretzel and Orange Julius and heading to the Red Baron and Tilt video arcades.

Strong Vincent - Go Colonels!

[SteveD]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Urban legend is that the gun is pointed at city hall in downtown Erie because the mall's mafia owners from Youngstown had a beef with the mayor at the time, Lou Tullio, over his freezing them out of large federally-funded construction grant contracts in the city of Erie.

I haven't been inside the Millcreek Mall in over a decade. It's really a pretty ridiculously-sized mall for a city the size of Erie... and in the 70s, that led to downtown's complete demise as a retail destination. It's over 2.2M sq ft. plus another 2M sq ft of retail in the plazas surrounding it on mall property. I guess it serves as a retail hub for a large area, including the areas of SW NY and NE Ohio which don't head for Buffalo or Cleveland.

Strong Vincent - Go Colonels!

Lou Tullio! I remember him well....one of my teachers from Strong Vincent went on to be mayor, I think ...Joyce Savoccio. Haha yeah the Colonels. I didn't make any friends that year...I came in from out of state and was the class valedictorian. I'd already taken most the highest classes taught which is why I got a pass to spend half of each day at Gannon.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by SteveD

Lou Tullio! I remember him well....one of my teachers from Strong Vincent went on to be mayor, I think ...Joyce Savoccio. Haha yeah the Colonels. I didn't make any friends that year...I came in from out of state and was the class valedictorian. I'd already taken most the highest classes taught which is why I got a pass to spend half of each day at Gannon.

Yes, she succeeded Tullio. Served a couple terms, I think.

[chris08876]

NJ opened up one of the largest malls in the country. Miami is also planning the largest mall in the U.S..

Here's the thing with malls... given the rise of online shopping, this has lead to innovation and creativity among the typical retail outlets/stores/mom and pop joints, and extended to malls.

We've even seen this with movie theaters, yes, movie theaters.

In other words, establishments across various retail/entertainment sectors are adapting to lure customers and retain them. Could be in the form of either deals, perks, on-site entertainment, general vibe/fun factor, and so on.

I would not want retail or malls to disappear. While online shopping is nice, I'd want the mom and pop shops to continue to flourish, and even malls (there's a place and time for everything and a purpose). Sometimes its good to go in person, clothing especially, or when one needs something ASAP.

[iheartthed]

^That NJ "mall" took almost 20 years to be built, and is more of a lightweight theme park now in order to be viable. Plus the shopping wing hasn't even opened yet.

[dchan]

Malls with regular full-priced stores are likely going the way of the dodo IMO. They were popular because they were a suburban fad for a few decades, but they are no longer as fashionable as they once were.

I think the current fad is for physical stores is being located in a city or town-type layout. Or i you're in the suburbs, designing your mall or shopping center to mimic a city or shopping plaza.

I see at least one type of indoor mall surviving: the outlet shopping mall. I went to the Mills at Jersey Gardens last year, and it was fairly packed. People like going to outlets because they feel like they are often getting a decent deal on "premium" "name-brand" merchandise. On the other hand, normal full-priced malls may be perceived as overpriced. I'm not sure how true this is.

[hipster duck]

For various reasons, Canada builds a lot less retail square footage than the US, so we have fewer dead malls, but we still have plenty.

In the Toronto region, there are two types of malls that seem to be doing well:

- Malls that went upmarket (I can think of 2 big ones* and 1 small one);

- Malls in working class/high density areas that are just the only places for miles around to buy mid-market fast fashion from a notable chain. For example, there is one in a dense, inner city, gentrifying area called the Dufferin Mall that is always a zoo. It's funny because the hipsters in the area shop at independent clothing stores on the nearby main streets, but the working class immigrants who also live in the area flock to this mall's Wal-Mart. It's probably similar to the malls in places like Atlantic Yards in Brooklyn.

*Strangely, our 2 larger upmarket malls - Yorkdale and Sherway Gardens - are close to wealthy areas but are actually situated in kind of dumpy parts of town.

Other than that, most malls are either stagnating or dying. Good luck to you if you own a mall with about 75-150 stores, formerly anchored by a Sears, in a postwar suburb that's basically surrounded by empty nesters.

[MolsonExport]

^good synopsis, but where does the Eaton Centre in Toronto figure?

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

^good synopsis, but where does the Eaton Centre in Toronto figure?

I’d say the Eaton Centre is 60% of #1 and 40% of #2. It has gotten quietly more upscale, since a Nordstrom’s replaced a Sears and since Hudson’s Bay invested a lot of money into their old flagship. At the same time, it’s the place you would go if you lived downtown and really wanted to shop at an Old Navy or wherever.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

For various reasons, Canada builds a lot less retail square footage than the US, so we have fewer dead malls, but we still have plenty.

In the Toronto region, there are two types of malls that seem to be doing well:

- Malls that went upmarket (I can think of 2 big ones* and 1 small one);

- Malls in working class/high density areas that are just the only places for miles around to buy mid-market fast fashion from a notable chain. For example, there is one in a dense, inner city, gentrifying area called the Dufferin Mall that is always a zoo. It's funny because the hipsters in the area shop at independent clothing stores on the nearby main streets, but the working class immigrants who also live in the area flock to this mall's Wal-Mart. It's probably similar to the malls in places like Atlantic Yards in Brooklyn.

*Strangely, our 2 larger upmarket malls - Yorkville and Sherway Gardens - are close to wealthy areas but are actually situated in kind of dumpy parts of town.

Other than that, most malls are either stagnating or dying. Good luck to you if you own a mall with about 75-150 stores, formerly anchored by a Sears, in a postwar suburb that's basically surrounded by empty nesters.

The U.S. is over-retailed compared to every country. We have by far the highest amount of retail space per capita. Canada, unsurprisingly, is second in the world, but still only about 3/4s of the U.S. Europe has probably about 1/6th the retail space that the U.S. does, per capita.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ies-worldwide/

[Mister F]

Originally Posted by photoLith

That social distancing sign is hilariously optimistic. I can't think of a safer place in a pandemic.

[softee]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

I’d say the Eaton Centre is 60% of #1 and 40% of #2. It has gotten quietly more upscale, since a Nordstrom’s replaced a Sears and since Hudson’s Bay invested a lot of money into their old flagship. At the same time, it’s the place you would go if you lived downtown and really wanted to shop at an Old Navy or wherever.

The Eaton Centre is the busiest mall in North America, and it was also the site of this historic moment almost exactly ten years ago:

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