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  #81  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2019, 2:00 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
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Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
Good choice.

I think Orphan Black was of the best Canadian shows ever; and would stand-up on a global scale.

For comedy, two female-helmed projects work for me, as someone whose not keen on traditional sitcoms.

Workin'Moms

And

Baroness Von Sketch
I find Baroness von Sketch a bit inconsistent, but when they're good, they're very good.
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  #82  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2019, 2:09 PM
elly63 elly63 is offline
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If I recall correctly, critics loved it, but it didn't really score with audiences.
It originally aired on a pay channel nobody would have seen it.

Wikipedia

The darkly comic series first aired on Canada's Movie Central and The Movie Network channels in 2003, and received acclaim in the United States when it was shown on the Sundance Channel two years later.
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  #83  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2019, 2:12 PM
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Netflix Must-Series: ‘Slings and Arrows’
Rosie Narasaki Hollywood.com Jan 25, 2014

They say it’s the golden era of TV – what with dramas like Mad Men and Homeland on the air (not to mention the recently dearly departed Breaking Bad), it’s hard to argue with fact. But even with stiff competition from more recent critical darlings, Slings and Arrows (off the air for almost ten years now) is still one of the best TV shows I’ve ever seen.

Helmed by unstable artistic director Geoffrey Tennant (Paul Gross), ghost (yes, ghost) Oliver Wells (Stephen Ouimette), and resident diva Ellen Fanshaw (Martha Burns), the performances on this show are superb. Oh, and series writers Mark McKinney and Susan Coyne are equally blessed in acting gifts as they are in writing gifts (lucky bastards). You’ll also want to look out for pre-fame Rachel McAdams taking her turn as Ophelia, Sarah Polley figuratively killin’ it as Cordelia, and William Hutt literally killin’ it as Lear.

Full of theater archetypes that you know and love/hate – the “ingénue” who chooses to play Ophelia as if she’s stoned, the constantly harangued stage manager, and Darren Nichols, who perfectly embodies every pretentious douchebag director you ever saw (down to the ratty scarves and tinted, black-framed glasses) – Slings and Arrows is (probably literally) a laugh a minute.

And that’s not even taking into account the way it deftly adapts some of Shakespeare’s most loved plays: season one tackles Hamlet (cheer up, you melancholy Dane!), season two takes on the Scottish play, and the final season does King Lear (and no Lear is complete without a heroin-shooting lead actor, right?). The original tagline for the show was, “The real show is backstage,” and it lives up that statement. The drama of the actors and production team mirrors, transforms – and dare I say, elevates? – Shakespeare’s magic.

This show has an inherent beauty (not to mention a wonderful sense of humor) that everyone will be able to respond to. So queue up that Netflix Instant Watch!
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  #84  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2019, 2:38 PM
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I've never really found women too funny (that's the misogynist in me) but this little show from the CBC I found quite captivating, The Broad Side (2001) with Susan Coyne, Diane Flacks, Kathryn Greenwood, and Erin McMurtry.

There weren't very many made, it may have been a summer fill in, but I have a few on VHS. As best as I recall it was something like a distaff Blackadder. You won't find too much out there on it.
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  #85  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2019, 2:44 PM
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This thread is quite refreshing.

It's like a widely dispersed archipelago of Canadian (pop) culture geeks who've "found each other"!

And I mean this in a positive way.
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  #86  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2019, 2:49 PM
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I'm just sitting here thinking of all the good shows I could list and it hit me how people that complain about Canadian TV are full of shit. I just refer back to that quote earlier in the thread "The Trouble With Tracy is universally considered the worst Canadian TV show of all time, especially by those who have never seen it."
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  #87  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2019, 2:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
This thread is quite refreshing. It's like a widely dispersed archipelago of Canadian (pop) culture geeks who've "found each other"! And I mean this in a positive way.
Seems to be becoming a popular thread with no ending of material. Quite a while back I was thinking how the Stadiums and Arenas thread slowed down after the stadium boom of the recent past, there's only a few stadiums left to look forward to, but this thread could have a long shelf life.

Hey mods can you move those posts over from the TV ratings/ marketing thread.
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  #88  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2019, 3:01 PM
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Originally Posted by elly63 View Post
I'm just sitting here thinking of all the good shows I could list and it hit me how people that complain about Canadian TV are full of shit.
So Canadians who can't relate to these shows are just misguided, haven't given these shows a chance, or actually do like these shows but haven't realized it yet? That says more about the arrogance of the domestic industry and their refusal to listen to consumers.

It reminds me of a dinner I attended at a friend's house 7-8 year ago. The host was a producer and complained that Canadians should watch more Canadian television and film. I politely pointed out that she had a Saab and Land Rover parked in her driveway. It would be nice if Canadians watched more Canadian television and film but it's not going to happen till they start producing product people want to watch. The stuff they make, with some exceptions, appeals to about 10-20% of the population. Quite predictably the bulk of Canadians can't relate to the bulk of what gets made, so don't watch.

If you like it that's great (and lucky you) but to then argue that the rest of us are full of shit? It speaks to your refusal to accept that not all Canadians like the same things you do. You seem almost angry about it. Should I get angry at my producer friend because she didn't want the Chevrolet? Maybe I should start insulting her.
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  #89  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2019, 3:44 PM
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I don't know if angry is the right word but when people make a blanket statement that Canadian TV sucks from a point of ignorance where they are just parroting things others have said or unfamiliarity (they've never even seen anything) yeah I get miffed at that.

People shouldn't throw out misinformation to cloud the issues if they themselves are not informed.

I never said everything was great and there wasn't crap as well, there's crap from Canadian TV as there is from the BBC and the USA. And I totally agree that producers should make shows people want to watch instead of agenda based hidden propaganda, I think I spelled that out pretty clearly in the ratings thread calling out CBC and praising Corner Gas' Brent Butt for this.

Now you just drew off the top of your head a figure of 10-20% appeal with no basis to back that up, but that may even be true in the mainstream. We have much more choice and content is so widely available and people are now so diverse that even much of mainstream programming may only appeal to an audience that small.
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  #90  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2019, 3:44 PM
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So Canadians who can't relate to these shows are just misguided, haven't given these shows a chance, or actually do like these shows but haven't realized it yet? That says more about the arrogance of the domestic industry and their refusal to listen to consumers.

It reminds me of a dinner I attended at a friend's house 7-8 year ago. The host was a producer and complained that Canadians should watch more Canadian television and film. I politely pointed out that she had a Saab and Land Rover parked in her driveway. It would be nice if Canadians watched more Canadian television and film but it's not going to happen till they start producing product people want to watch. The stuff they make, with some exceptions, appeals to about 10-20% of the population. Quite predictably the bulk of Canadians can't relate to the bulk of what gets made, so don't watch.

If you like it that's great (and lucky you) but to then argue that the rest of us are full of shit? It speaks to your refusal to accept that not all Canadians like the same things you do. You seem almost angry about it. Should I get angry at my producer friend because she didn't want the Chevrolet? Maybe I should start insulting her.
I'd argue that a significant part of that "disinterest" is due to long-term (intergenerational in most cases) conditioning as opposed to any truly thoughtful analysis of the quality of various cultural products.

If you want proof of that, just look at how much slack people will cut to American crap or schlock simply because it bears the imprimatur of Hollywood.

Obviously there is some Canadian stuff that is better than some Hollywood stuff. But the latter will almost always get more attention and buy-in from Canadians than the former. Simply because it's Hollywood and everyone assumes it's automatically the best. Don't get me wrong - in terms of sheer volume of good stuff the Americans produce the best TV and movies in the world. Without question. But this fact has led a lot of people to have closed minds when it comes to anything that doesn't come from that specific universe.

My (teenaged) kids are particularly good at mining Netflix for all sorts of good stuff from all over the world, and while a lot of the stuff they watch on there is "anglosphere" (most of it US) they also frequently come up with Swedish, Russian, Spanish or Italian stuff that they tell my wife and I are "must sees".

Some of this stuff we've really liked and mentioned in passing to friends, and while some of them have responded positively, others have not really been able to get into "foreign" series. No matter how awesome and we and critics think they are. These are people who are used to watching American and Québécois stuff primarily, with some French movies thrown into the mix.

But watching a Spanish Netflix series, no matter how awesome it is, is just too big a leap for them.

That's conditioning - and getting back to our topic, many Canadians are conditioned to view anything that's Canadian (or perhaps "not American") as a bit "off".

Hence their "disinterest".
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  #91  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2019, 3:50 PM
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i'd argue that a significant part of that "disinterest" is due to long-term (intergenerational in most cases) conditioning as opposed to any truly thoughtful analysis of the quality of various cultural products.
Bingo!
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  #92  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2019, 3:56 PM
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But watching a Spanish Netflix series, no matter how awesome it is, is just too big a leap for them.
There's a music group I like who are so different but they sing in Spanish. I don't speak Spanish but it speaks to me but other people won't give them a chance because they can't get by that elementary thing. I'm not blaming them but sometimes people can't get by barriers no matter how big or small.
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  #93  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2019, 4:01 PM
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I know we're not really talking about variety shows on here (and they may not be everyone's cup of tea), but to me the only thing that can explain someone thinking that this, as a "show" or a "spectacle", is absolutely awesome and riveting on the one hand:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNCw9dtCM0Y

... and this, on the other hand, is somehow "subpar" in comparison:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7E_n_JRHcZI

is "conditioning".
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  #94  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2019, 4:21 PM
elly63 elly63 is offline
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
That's conditioning - and getting back to our topic, many Canadians are conditioned to view anything that's Canadian (or perhaps "not American") as a bit "off".
And maybe that's why I felt the need to "prove" the validity of Slings & Arrows as a great show by quoting American examples such as NPR and Hollywood.com. I am using sources that the "naysayers" (for lack of a better word) will more easily validate rather than someone from a Canadian periodical. It's often better to "beat" somebody with sources they recognize rather than ones I might use.
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  #95  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2019, 4:33 PM
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How Mr. Rogers and Mr. Dressup's road trip from Pittsburgh to Toronto changed children's television forever
The recent release of Won’t You Be My Neighbor? has unleashed both a bout of nostalgia and the fear that some aspect of childhood has been lost
Don Gillmor The National Post July 11, 2018

“You take everything north of Windsor. The whole U.S. is mine. Got it?”

“Got it.”

“And remember, every child is special.”

“Whatever.”

Full disclosure: this conversation never took place between Fred Rogers (Mr. Rogers) and Ernie Coombs (Mr. Dressup).

However, in 1962, both men made the drive up Interstate 79, from Pittsburgh to Toronto, for a trip that would eventually change the face of children’s television. At the time, the pair had been working on a show called The Children’s Corner at WQED-TV in Pittsburgh. Fred Rainsberry, head of children’s programming at the CBC, saw Rogers, and invited him to come to Toronto to do his own show. Rogers, in turn, invited Coombs to come along and work as a puppeteer on the new program, which was going to be called Misterogers.

The future of children’s television in one car. What did they talk about? Perhaps the two of them formulated a diabolical plan to dominate children’s programming in two countries for the next three decades, dividing up the continent like a game of high-stakes Risk. More likely, they talked about how this new show would be different than anything on TV. And Canada was the perfect place to do it.

Watching the documentary about the late Fred Rogers, Won’t You Be My Neighbor?, he comes across as quintessentially Canadian, or at least the caricature we’re often saddled with: earnest, understated, well-meaning, a bit dull, a nagging sense that we all studied to be Presbyterian ministers, which, in fact, Rogers did. Perhaps those were the qualities Rainsberry saw.

Misterogers ran for four seasons on CBC before Rogers returned to Pittsburgh, taking his sets with him. For the next 33 years, he put on that cardigan and those sneakers, and talked about the joys of neighbourliness until finally retiring in 2001. Coombs stayed in Canada and, after working on the children’s series Butternut Square, created Mr. Dressup, which ran on CBC for 29 years (1967-1996).

Both Rogers and Dressup addressed the camera as if it were a single child rather than a collective. They were quiet and restrained, Rogers to the point of narcosis at times (he once silently watched an egg timer tick off a minute). Years ago, I interviewed Coombs, who said Rogers had told him that “if you’re restrained, the kids will come to you.” And come they did. Both created iconic shows (Mister Rogers’ Neighbourhood was the longest-running children’s show in U.S. history until Sesame Street eclipsed it), and both were successful live performers.

In the Rogers documentary, an interviewee points out, “If you take all of the elements that make good television and do the exact opposite, you have Mister Rogers’ Neighborhood. Low production values, simple set, an unlikely star.” The pacing was slow, at times agonizingly so, the theme song sucked and Fred Rogers didn’t have a singing voice (though he was a pretty good pianist).

For all of his earnestness, Rogers was also quietly adventurous: he did a whole week on death — pets, grandparents, etc. After Robert Kennedy’s murder, he talked to preschoolers about assassination. He addressed racism, violence and divorce, all in his soothing ministerial way. There is a prescient clip from 1968 where a puppet, “benevolent monarch” King Friday XIII, decides to build a wall to keep “undesirables” out. He is subsequently talked out of it.

Watching the documentary, it’s hard to imagine a show like Mister Rogers’ Neighborhood being on the air now. You could say that it was a more innocent, peaceful time, though it wasn’t, what with Vietnam, student protests, racial strife, Kent State et al. While these are perilous times, the tribalism and trade chaos is largely taking place offstage. Back then, it was in the streets.

And it’s tempting to say that today’s frantic children’s programming (Phineas and Ferb) reflects our frantic times, though Rogers said that his show was a response to the slapstick violence of TV in the 1960s, and the clubby fascism of shows like The Mickey Mouse Club (though he would never have phrased it that way). It was an anomaly even for its time.

Mr. Dressup used the same formula as Rogers – essentially offering young viewers a version of himself on screen, full of gentle lessons and quirky puppets. Casey was an androgynous four-year-old with a mid-Atlantic accent who lived in a tree house and didn’t have any parents. His dog Finnegan never spoke aloud but whispered to Casey (both operated by Australian puppeteer Judith Lawrence, who retired after 23 seasons, her arms finally giving out).

The natural successor to both shows was Sesame Street, which debuted in 1969, only a year after Rogers’ show, and held to similar progressive ideals, but was fresher, more inventive and much hipper — though virtually everyone was hipper than Fred Rogers.

The recent release of Won’t You Be My Neighbor? has unleashed both a bout of nostalgia and the fear that some aspect of childhood has been lost. But every generation mourns the loss of innocence. Neil Postman argued in The Disappearance of Childhood that childhood was an invention, created by the printing press, or at least literacy. If you were the child of a peasant in the Middle Ages, you would have engaged in the adult world by the age of seven, perhaps even earlier. Your parents would be illiterate, and may never have travelled farther than the next village. At a very early age, you knew what your parents knew because there was so little access to new information. All information was oral, and usually practical — don’t go into the forest.

We are currently approaching the mirror image of that. With the internet, our children now have access to the same information we do, not always an uplifting thought. They spend an increasing amount of time in the forest.

In Won’t You Be My Neighbor?, the innocence is seen in Rogers as much as his audience. Each generation of children faces its own unique challenges, but both Mr. Rogers and Mr. Dressup remind us that there are several childhood qualities that are immutable.
Thanks for posting that. Its touched on a topic that my wife and I have been discussing recently.

My wife and I have a 22 month old and a 1 month old.

Since our second daughter was born, we've started to let our oldest watch *a little bit of TV* when the situation calls for it. As a result, we've been watching Mr. Dressup, Mister Rogers, Fred Penner, Friendly Giant, etc etc on youtube.

I was never aware of it before, but the slow pace, overall calmness, etc is a significant contrast to any other modern, or reletively modern, kids show. With what seems like peoples attention spans getting shorter and shorter, there is something incredibly pleasant about an entire Friendly Giant episode where its just him telling a little story and singing a handful of songs.

We certainly want to be cautious not to make the TV a babysitter....but with all the crap on TV aimed and toddlers, its nice to be able to find an old episode of these shows....you at least feel a lot less guilty about it. At the same time, I'm a little terrified about what passes as shows aimed for toddlers now...if they don't have the attention span to sit through a Mr Dressup episode now....yikes.

It would be nice to stumble upon a larger collection of episodes from these shows.
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  #96  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2019, 4:48 PM
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Maybe this is where I start talking about controlling your content. Most of my life, I have never had cable TV, by hook or by crook I have had the option to see what most people can see. With an Internet connection that is now much easier.

Youtube is fantastic for acquiring content and it's super easy with a program like 4K VideoDownloader. Make your own collections.

Regarding kids, I'm not sure if it is good or bad to have multiple viewings of favourite episodes. I know myself ( I assume it's my OCD) that allows me to watch the same things dozens of times and collect it, while others are one and out.

It's great to have programs such as this but kids have to be exposed and hardened to other things as well. They should be ready for the first bus ride to school and meeting and dealing with the kid who wasn't raised on Mister Rogers. It's a fine balance.

I'll keep an eye out for those programs and let you know if I find anything.

Last edited by elly63; Sep 16, 2019 at 4:59 PM.
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  #97  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2019, 5:09 PM
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The Trouble With Tracy Intro

The Trouble With Tracy

From one of the commenters:
In his book, TV North: Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About Canadian Television, Peter Kenter says "The Trouble With Tracy is universally considered the worst Canadian TV show of all time, especially by those who have never seen it."

Well I did see it, it was part of my childhood and it wasn't even close to being the worst show of all time or most of us wouldn't have watched it. Tracy was sexy as all get out, and Miss Anderson and Tracy's hippy brother Paul were funny. The show did use old Goodman Ace "Easy Aces" scripts from the 30s/40s and they shot at least 5 episodes a week so it wasn't all going to be Masterpiece Theater.
I watched The Trouble With Tracy when I was a kid, and I liked it.
However, a few years ago I watched some episodes for nostalgic reasons - and I was cringing left, right and centre. Not sure about it being the worst Canadian TV show of all time - but I can see why people thought it was bad. I find that many things I watched as a kid are just terrible as an adult (Canadian or American shows).
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  #98  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2019, 5:12 PM
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Maybe this is where I start talking about controlling your content. Most of my life, I have never had cable TV, by hook or by crook I have had the option to see what most people can see. With an Internet connection that is now much easier.

Youtube is fantastic for acquiring content and it's super easy with a program like 4K VideoDownloader. Make your own collections.

Regarding kids, I'm not sure if it is good or bad to have multiple viewings of favourite episodes. I know myself ( I assume it's my OCD) that allows me to watch the same things dozens of times and collect it, while others are one and out.

It's great to have programs such as this but kids have to be exposed and hardened to other things as well. They should be ready for the first bus ride to school and meeting and dealing with the kid who wasn't raised on Mister Rogers. It's a fine balance.

I'll keep an eye out for those programs and let you know if I find anything.
My kids are older now but when they were younger it seemed like a huge percentage of the programming on channels like Teletoon was high energy, loud hyperactive content.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dhEk2ExrQA

I mean, I know for sure we had our share of this stuff too when were kids (Roadrunner was very violent for example) but geez... some of that stuff today seems like constant screaming from the characters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dhEk2ExrQA

(BTW pretty sure Johnny Test is a Canadian show.)
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  #99  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2019, 5:14 PM
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I find that many things I watched as a kid are just terrible as an adult (Canadian or American shows).
As a kid they were good and as an adult they don't hold up or are bad. Welcome Back Kotter comes to mind for me. Then there is the opposite to that, as a kid I guess Jack Benny was either over my head or an old man, he cracks me up now. And part of that may be the losing of our imaginations or sense of play.

Last edited by elly63; Sep 16, 2019 at 5:31 PM.
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  #100  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2019, 5:18 PM
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I mean, I know for sure we had our share of this stuff too when were kids (Roadrunner was very violent for example)
I've talked about this many times with people and I've always found myself alone on this. I hated that f'n Roadrunner He frustrated me. He was always taunting Wile Coyote who always seemed to try so hard and fail. To me Wile was the better character to emulate (aside from the wanting to kill the Roadrunner part)
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