Chief William Commanda Bridge (Prince of Wales Bridge) | Closed for Winter

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

See this map that I posted before (stolen from reddit) that summarizes the Gatineau LRT proposals and connection points. My only changes would be direct all Gatineau LRTs through Hull to Rideau and send the Rapibus across the PoW (either current bridge or some future crossing).

Just need a station around Jasmine.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

See this map that I posted before (stolen from reddit) that summarizes the Gatineau LRT proposals and connection points. My only changes would be direct all Gatineau LRTs through Hull to Rideau and send the Rapibus across the PoW (either current bridge or some future crossing).

This would certainly be better than what has been proposed so far by PoW-for-Gatineau fans on here.

For this one people from north and east Gatineau could transfer at St-Joseph Station to go to downtown Ottawa via Rideau if they're going to the eastern part of downtown Ottawa, and cross at Bayview if they're going to the western part of downtown Ottawa.

I am not sure that it's necessarily better than the status quo, but it's better than having Bayview as the mandatory transfer point for all of downtown Ottawa for almost everyone from the Gatineau side.

That would made no sense as probably 70% of Gatineau's population, including all of Vieux-Hull, half of central Hull and everything east of the Gatineau River, lies east of the PoW alignment. Why make all of them go that far west when there are multiple bridges east of there leading directly into downtown Ottawa?

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by JM1

My concern with central transfers on public transit is that it cannot use the roads. The existing bridges are already full.

Also, there will be additional traffic on the Eddy Street Bridge once Zibi is built out (with traffic lights interfering with inter-provincial traffic).

In my view the only options are (1) an underground central tunnel connecting rapidbus via Zibi to Ottawa or (2) an overhead gondola system that connects the rapidbus via Zibi to Ottawa.

I think option (2) would be both less expensive and would make for a cool addition to the cities.

2 lanes on Portage are bus-only lanes. Converting them to tram-only lanes won't change much.

[lrt's friend]

I get a little nervous when the priority is to remove almost all transit from downtown streets. This is telling me that we want to make more room for private vehicles.

Part of this discussion regarding improving overall connectivity is the east end bridge especially at Kettle Island where transit priority would be most useful and viable.

[JM1]

The bridge itself would be the same, but there would be a significant impact on the approaches.

Originally Posted by zzptichka

2 lanes on Portage are bus-only lanes. Converting them to tram-only lanes won't change much.

[JM1]

A bridge at Kettle Island would be 5km from downtown. This would be silly. It would really only be viable for cars... not trucks or transit.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I get a little nervous when the priority is to remove almost all transit from downtown streets. This is telling me that we want to make more room for private vehicles.

Part of this discussion regarding improving overall connectivity is the east end bridge especially at Kettle Island where transit priority would be most useful and viable.

[JM1]

A bridge at Kettle Island for transit would be fa less useful and far more costly than a redeveloped Prince of Wales bridge.

Originally Posted by JM1

A bridge at Kettle Island would be 5km from downtown. This would be silly. It would really only be viable for cars... not trucks or transit.

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I get a little nervous when the priority is to remove almost all transit from downtown streets. This is telling me that we want to make more room for private vehicles.

I agree. There will always be a need for some buses to go to and from downtown.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by JM1

A bridge at Kettle Island for transit would be fa less useful and far more costly than a redeveloped Prince of Wales bridge.

I am not talking about a transit bridge. I am talking about a regular bridge with transit lanes. We put transit lanes on the Vimy bridge. The Kettle Island bridge is more central than that and there is a major employment node just south of the bridge.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I am not talking about a transit bridge. I am talking about a regular bridge with transit lanes. We put transit lanes on the Vimy bridge. The Kettle Island bridge is more central than that and there is a major employment node just south of the bridge.

That does not solve any transit problems. Except for some infinitesimally small set of travelers between Orleans and East Gatineau. That flow is probably small enough that some zip lines across might suffice.

Most of Ottawa's population and most of Gatineau's population is west of there.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

That would be the only value and would have next to zero ridership in off-peak hours.

So, business as usual on the Trillium Line?
I'm almost certain there would be some riders, especially with Zibi right there.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by danishh

i'm fine with this as an interim measure.

I'm coming around to the idea in the long-term that the Feds should just buy/take POW from the city of Ottawa, rebuild it, ...

I agree with that portion of your post 100%.

... and give it to Gatineau.

Gatineau, with provincial and federal money, can then build a line from aylmer to hull with a spur to bayview down the new POW bridge. If they want they can run a single line that does the Bayview detour on the way to Hull (annoying for Aylmerites headed to Hull, i know). If the economics allow it, they could run 3 separate lines on the track: Aylmer-Hull, Aylmer-Bayview, and Hull-Bayview. Eventually the Hull line could be extended via Fournier/Greber or perhaps wrapping around Sacre Coeur to the Rapibus corridor.

I disagree with you here 100%. First of all, it should be kept in federal control, just like all of the other interprovincial bridges in the NCR.

Secondly, as discussed before, having STO dump all of their downtown bound passengers off at Bayview, requiring OC Transpo carry them the rest of the way, makes no sense. Dumping STO passengers at Bayview would be a burden on the Confederation Line.

With the current arrangement, STO transports the majority of their riders to their destination and the few that need to go further are mostly travelling contraflow, and thus filling seats that would otherwise be empty. As a result, it is of little cost to OC Transpo.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Also, while the numbers can sound big, 10 -15 000 per day is not that huge. That would put peak hour ridership into the core across all STO routes at closer to 3000 and only a portion of that would be transfering at Bayview, and a portion of that (albeit majority) in the peak direction. It's easily possible to get no more than an 1000 STO Rapibus riders transfering at Bayview at peak hour, in the peak direction. Probably less.

An increase of 1000 pphpd in the peak direction would mean OCTranspo buying about 1.5 new trains to handle the demand. Would that cripple OCTrnaspo? No, but it would cost money. All to support passengers that aren't paying OCTranspo anything. Maybe if STO agreed to subsidize the Confederation Line as compensation it would work, but I am sure they would rather just provide their own service to downtown Ottawa than pay OC Transpo to do it for them.

This is completely different from a transfer at Rideau. Not only would many of the people getting off the train walk to their destination (reducing the number of transfers), but by Rideau, the trains have already partially emptied (at both uOttawa and Rideau stations) so those transferring are filling "seats" that would otherwise be empty.

[acottawa]

Taché is not a hub, it is a spur that is only served by two routes (18 and 800). The only real transfer possibility is to get on an EB bus (surface LRT someday) at a location where there isn’t room for a significant transfer station. It might offer a minuscule time saving for Gatineau residents who work on Line 2 or attend Carleton, but how many people is that?

[danishh]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I agree with that portion of your post 100%.




I disagree with you here 100%. First of all, it should be kept in federal control, just like all of the other interprovincial bridges in the NCR.

Secondly, as discussed before, having STO dump all of their downtown bound passengers off at Bayview, requiring OC Transpo carry them the rest of the way, makes no sense. Dumping STO passengers at Bayview would be a burden on the Confederation Line.

With the current arrangement, STO transports the majority of their riders to their destination and the few that need to go further are mostly travelling contraflow, and thus filling seats that would otherwise be empty. As a result, it is of little cost to OC Transpo.

federal control, city control, i dont really care - the main point is that STO would be running the lines to aylmer and hull over the POW.

As for the seat-balancing issue, a lot of ottawans are going to be switching onto STO at bayview to go to hull. You can currently watch all these ottawans between 7am and 9am doing the lebreton shuffle. It's their seats the gatinois will be filling, both towards downtown and tunneys.

the idea of continuing the current network architecture for the region, where STO maintains a network of Ottawa destinations and OC maintains a network of Hull destinations, seems insane to bring into the rail era. Do we really want STO maintaining an Ottawa LRT network and OC maintaining their own, separate, Hull LRT network?

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by danishh

...........

the idea of continuing the current network architecture for the region, where STO maintains a network of Ottawa destinations and OC maintains a network of Hull destinations, seems insane to bring into the rail era. Do we really want STO maintaining an Ottawa LRT network and OC maintaining their own, separate, Hull LRT network?

Good Day.

And there's the rub......
given provincial politics, inter-provincial politics, NCC, and federal politics, that is pretty much exactly what we will have, for now, and for at least the near and medium future.

There is just no appetite for cooperation at anything above the municipal level in this region.
So, at best, we get trade-offs between Gat and Ott for running buses and rails to a quietly, mutually negotiated, and agreed, split of servicings.

Definitely NOT the best way to run a railroad !

NoJoy!

[Gat-Train]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Secondly, as discussed before, having STO dump all of their downtown bound passengers off at Bayview, requiring OC Transpo carry them the rest of the way, makes no sense. Dumping STO passengers at Bayview would be a burden on the Confederation Line.

Nobody is arguing that the POW bridge should be the ONLY rail connection across the river. But it would serve South/West Ottawa residents working in the office towers in Hull, and Aylmer residents working in DOtt, and Carleton students that live in Gatineau etc. It's certainly better to do something with the bridge than to let it rot into the river.

[acottawa]

People keep talking as if a PoW link would be some sort of shortcut. Bayview to taché is about 2 km, which is about the same distance as Bayview to Lyon, and Lyon is closer to PdP than Taché/track intersection. Unless you are an West/South Ottawa resident with business in the immediate vicinity of Taché (the armoury or UQ) or an Alymer resident using Line 2 (again, probably pretty small numbers) there is no advantage to a PoW link.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by danishh

federal control, city control, i dont really care - the main point is that STO would be running the lines to aylmer and hull over the POW.

As for the seat-balancing issue, a lot of ottawans are going to be switching onto STO at bayview to go to hull. You can currently watch all these ottawans between 7am and 9am doing the lebreton shuffle. It's their seats the gatinois will be filling, both towards downtown and tunneys.

the idea of continuing the current network architecture for the region, where STO maintains a network of Ottawa destinations and OC maintains a network of Hull destinations, seems insane to bring into the rail era. Do we really want STO maintaining an Ottawa LRT network and OC maintaining their own, separate, Hull LRT network?

If this was the main rail link the numbers alighting at Bayview would be dwarfed by those arriving from Gatineau. The easiest way would be to charge a bit extra for use of OCtranspo network. The $20-$30 price difference between and OCtranspo and STO pass seems like a fair amount. With such a price difference there might start to be a lot of leakage anyway towards Ottawa residents buying STO passes.

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

If this was the main rail link the numbers alighting at Bayview would be dwarfed by those arriving from Gatineau. The easiest way would be to charge a bit extra for use of OCtranspo network. The $20-$30 price difference between and OCtranspo and STO pass seems like a fair amount. With such a price difference there might start to be a lot of leakage anyway towards Ottawa residents buying STO passes.

Wouldn't make sense since you have to live in Gatineau to buy the monthly pass which is the the only thing that is cheaper to buy.

Long after I moved to Gatineau from Ottawa I had to show ID to prove that I lived there to get the monthly pass. Before that I used to ride my bike to work.