CHICAGO | General Developments

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by west-town-brad

Guys.

They already have private shuttle busses from Olgilvie to the the eastern side of the Loop. No reason they can't have shuttle busses go west.

Not the same thing. The Loop/East Loop is also where all the CTA’s lines go.....Fulton has a green line stop. But, having stated that, I also think that the Central Loop and West Loop (the portion east of the expressway) are better suited to large scale office usage than the East Loop....

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

It's about access to the largest possible workforce.

When you have an office on top of Ogilvie, you have access to everyone everywhere, pretty much

This.
This.
This.

(I can’t even believe this needs to be stated, as it’s little more than common sense planning)

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by k1052

Which brings me to my 2nd point....say you are a legacy company in the suburbs that wants to turnover a good chunk of your workforce and entice older employees to take buyouts. What would be a good move to accomplish that and have ready access to younger city living talent?

Hmmmm....

Do you not understand how this makes for horrible planning?

Your entire argument is essentially based on how a city’s land use can help re-establish legalized private sector age discrimination....or at least substantially chip away at important protections....

The city should be seeking to encourage office density around areas most accessible to the broadest conceivable proportion of the region’s population...

This is literally responsible economic, social and environmental planning policy 101.

What don’t we get here, guys?

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by tjp

Yeah, I generally agree it's bad planning. But if having a big supply of cool, warehouse'y office space is what it's going to take to attract new employers to the central area, so be it, I guess.

Bad planning indeed, but don’t kid yourself - these companies would overwhelmingly be moving downtown anyway - whether in post office type space, or elsewhere.

This is like the preposterous argument some jokers make that the city would have risked a massive a Salesforce expansion, and resulting jobs and economic growth if it didn’t change the riverfront signage ordinance specifically for them at WPS. Yes, yes, they would have moved to/expanded in St. Louis instead! No, of course they would have either lived with the existing ordinance or they would have taken down a half-mil sq ft elsewhere downtown. In reality, that ‘accommodation’ was a gift for Hines of course....changing legislation to specifically benefit their project...,

[k1052]

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop

Do you not understand how this makes for horrible planning?

Your entire argument is essentially based on how a city’s land use can help re-establish legalized private sector age discrimination....or at least substantially chip away at important protections....

The city should be seeking to encourage office density around areas most accessible to the broadest conceivable proportion of the region’s population...

This is literally responsible economic, social and environmental planning policy 101.

What don’t we get here, guys?

If the supply of space zoned for office is kept forever limited by proximity to the commuter rail hub then you've effectively created a monopoly for those property owners and rents will go accordingly. Keep in mind that companies can always move to other CITIES.

Anyway we've already been through this a few times you and I. Companies are leasing up FM and they all have their various reasons. Further claims that the area is a bad office market are going to be somewhat muffled by all the ongoing construction.

[moorhosj]

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop

The city should be seeking to encourage office density around areas most accessible to the broadest conceivable proportion of the region’s population...

Can you show that Abbott Labs North Chicago headquarters are more accessible to more people than the West Loop? How about WW Grainger in Lake Forest?

If not, then maybe there are other factors involved and we can all just acknowledge that it is happening and likely to continue happening.

[ardecila]

^ I do agree the West Loop has access challenges, especially for North Side employees. We are right off Halsted, so North Siders at my company generally take Metra and walk from Ogilvie, or take the Red Line to North/Clybourn and cram onto a severely overcrowded Halsted bus. Which route you take depends on whether you live west or east of Ashland. If your job is further west in West Loop, you've basically got to transfer to Green Line at State/Lake.

Sterling Bay, who has the most skin in the West Loop game, has realized this access issue and is now including substantial parking podiums in all of its big new West Loop buildings. Trammell Crow is doing the same for their spec highrise on Ogden. If the city doesn't step in with transit improvements, the neighborhood is gonna keep getting more congested until it's no longer desirable. It doesn't even have to be a rail line; a bus lane on Halsted would work wonders and is practically free (apart from the buyout of the parking meters). A bus line on Ogden, even without dedicated lanes, could do something similar for the west part of West Loop.

SB does want to build a Metra station at Ogden, but Metra will probably stall those efforts until they figure out a plan to deal with their congested A-2 junction nearby.

[Leveled]

Need to force a business hub in the south loop. Much better connections.

[VKChaz]

Originally Posted by ardecila

...
Sterling Bay, who has the most skin in the West Loop game, has realized this access issue and is now including substantial parking podiums in all of its big new West Loop buildings. Trammell Crow is doing the same for their spec highrise on Ogden. ....

Strikes me as a troubling direction. If the plan is to construct outlying office developments with abundant, attached parking that is free or relatively inexpensive, that is effectively encouraging driving.

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by ardecila

^ I do agree the West Loop has access challenges, especially for North Side employees. We are right off Halsted, so North Siders at my company generally take Metra and walk from Ogilvie, or take the Red Line to North/Clybourn and cram onto a severely overcrowded Halsted bus. Which route you take depends on whether you live west or east of Ashland. If your job is further west in West Loop, you've basically got to transfer to Green Line at State/Lake.

Sterling Bay, who has the most skin in the West Loop game, has realized this access issue and is now including substantial parking podiums in all of its big new West Loop buildings. Trammell Crow is doing the same for their spec highrise on Ogden. If the city doesn't step in with transit improvements, the neighborhood is gonna keep getting more congested until it's no longer desirable. It doesn't even have to be a rail line; a bus lane on Halsted would work wonders and is practically free (apart from the buyout of the parking meters). A bus line on Ogden, even without dedicated lanes, could do something similar for the west part of West Loop.

SB does want to build a Metra station at Ogden, but Metra will probably stall those efforts until they figure out a plan to deal with their congested A-2 junction nearby.

Sounds like a Streeterville to Fulton Market bus might be useful during rush hour (with stops at Grand/State and Mechandise Mart).

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by VKChaz

Strikes me as a troubling direction. If the plan is to construct outlying office developments with abundant, attached parking that is free or relatively inexpensive, that is effectively encouraging driving.

I think it’s important to have some perspective here.

The parking counts in these new projects are a mere fraction of the number of people that are expected to be employed in these buildings. Perhaps from 1/4 to 1/5 or lower.

Most people will still have to find a way to get there without their car

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

Sounds like a Streeterville to Fulton Market bus might be useful during rush hour (with stops at Grand/State and Mechandise Mart).

I'm not sure it would offer any time savings over the current options, it would end up being a pretty slow bus. River North streets are pretty congested and there are limited ways to get across the river (Kinzie or Grand).

Once you get to Fulton Market area, the best street for bus service to hit the office district is Lake, which is also pretty congested (and can't have bus lanes added because of the L supports). The only advantage is it would fill in the 3/4 mile gap between Morgan and Ashland with local bus stops to minimize walking.

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

I think it’s important to have some perspective here.

The parking counts in these new projects are a mere fraction of the number of people that are expected to be employed in these buildings. Perhaps from 1/4 to 1/5 or lower.

Most people will still have to find a way to get there without their car

This is true, and I suspect that a/the primary mode will end up being somebody else’s car, ie the big ride shares....

They are a major beneficiary of any downtown fringe/urban outlying poorly planned/transit inconvenient office districts, particularly directed at millennials/Gen Z....

Cui bono, always.

Say, random thought - doesn’t Ari Emanuel have a nice stake in Uber?

[k1052]

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop

This is true, and I suspect that a/the primary mode will end up being somebody else’s car, ie the big ride shares....

They are a major beneficiary of any downtown fringe/urban outlying poorly planned/transit inconvenient office districts, particularly directed at millennials/Gen Z....

Cui bono, always.

Say, random thought - doesn’t Ari Emanuel have a nice stake in Uber?

My office is in this area and out of 25 people we have exactly two drivers and nobody taking cabs/rideshare on the regular.

[SIGSEGV]

I noticed fencing is up for http://brinshore.com/dev/45th-cottage-grove/

Not sure when that happened since I don't usually pay attention outside when I ride the 4.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by k1052

My office is in this area and out of 25 people we have exactly two drivers and nobody taking cabs/rideshare on the regular.

Interesting. Bus primarily?

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

I think it’s important to have some perspective here.

The parking counts in these new projects are a mere fraction of the number of people that are expected to be employed in these buildings. Perhaps from 1/4 to 1/5 or lower.

Most people will still have to find a way to get there without their car

It's the trend that's worrisome. Most of the small office rehabs don't have on-site parking because they're in historic buildings, but it's clear to me that Sterling Bay is collecting feedback from their office tenants and realizes that the transit situation in West Loop has proven to be a big pain point. The only reason it hasn't become a bigger problem is that transit ridership has been down systemwide as Uber/Lyft steal their riders.

[ChiShawn]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

Sounds like a Streeterville to Fulton Market bus might be useful during rush hour (with stops at Grand/State and Mechandise Mart).

Expand the 125 route? Or in a perfect world, built the connector rail proposal (PDF).

[tjp]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

I think it’s important to have some perspective here.

The parking counts in these new projects are a mere fraction of the number of people that are expected to be employed in these buildings. Perhaps from 1/4 to 1/5 or lower.

Most people will still have to find a way to get there without their car

Yeah, exactly. For example, Sterling Bay's "Green Street Corridor" projects are planned to have 1000 parking spaces, but the office square footage will be around 1.7 million (which I imagine would hold at least 10,000-15,000 employees).

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by ardecila

It's the trend that's worrisome. Most of the small office rehabs don't have on-site parking because they're in historic buildings, but it's clear to me that Sterling Bay is collecting feedback from their office tenants and realizes that the transit situation in West Loop has proven to be a big pain point. The only reason it hasn't become a bigger problem is that transit ridership has been down systemwide as Uber/Lyft steal their riders.

Straight from the Department of: Never Could Have Seen This Coming.

Almost as if there is a lack of planning/poor planning here.

But what about the bicyclists? Isn’t 55% of this workforce cycling to the office?!/sarcasm