Freeway-Free City - Something Winnipeg can be proud of

[superduy]

What about that centre port Canada expressway?

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by RTD

My opinion is irrelevant? What a pompous statement.

First, that wasn't addressed to you. Second, the opinion people have of BRT is irrelevant, because that's what we can afford, and that's what we're getting. We should be supportive of progress.

Oh, and yes there will be increased traffic as the city grows and pushes towards one million;

There doesn't have to be much of an increase in traffic - certainly not one that our current infrastructure with some expansion can't handle. The days of one person in a car commuting across the city need to come to an end.

you know, like they do in other growing cities or do you prefer to ignore this fact as well?

We're not other cities. We need to work on moving people more efficiently. That doesn't necessarily have to include facilities for large numbers of cars.

And as Centreport grows and commercial traffic increases throughout the city,

That's why we need to get commuter traffic off of the road. Right now there isn't a traffic problem in this city. If we are able to keep the vehicle traffic from growing substantially by implementing sustainable transportation infrastructure that we can financially support, there won't be a problem in the future.

Not to do so is pretty short-sighted, in my humble opinion.

I would say building up a freeway network now would be pretty short sighted since the world seems to be heading in the exact opposite direction - especially given the fact that we would have to sacrifice so many other things (pretty much everything) just to have it. We don't have that kind of money.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by superduy

What about that centre port Canada expressway?

That takes truck traffic out of Winnipeg and off our major routes. That is also being paid for by the province and the federal government, since they can better afford it.

[1ajs]

winnipeg has not fucked around yet we have an opertunity to look at what the world as done wrong take what works from other places and making somthing that will work well for our city

[grumpy old man]

Originally Posted by jmt18325

There doesn't have to be much of an increase in traffic - certainly not one that our current infrastructure with some expansion can't handle. The days of one person in a car commuting across the city need to come to an end.

An almost 50% increase in population will certainly have a significant impact on our current infrastructure. Modest (some) expansion will not cut it.

It matters not what other cities are doing other than we consider best practices. Winnipeg must do what serves Winnipeg best.

This notion of increased transit use is lovely but unrealistic. I believe our climate will always conspire to make transit the preferred choice unrealistic.

Build a proper inner ring freeway. Start doing it now. Because when we reach one million it will be too late. And I can assure you you will be eating crow when you are stuck in gridlock and the far too many logjams.

[jmt18325]

The inner beltway isn't practical. It would cost way too much. The best idea is to continue the expansion of important roots and use others as needed. Expanding transit is an excellent solution o move people, even with our climate.

[RTD]

You can do both transit and improve road infrastructure and be practical at the same time. My goodness, if you want to have an improved city, you are going to need to spend $$$ in order to achieve effectiveness. I don't believe cutting corners will be the best for our city for the long-term benefits of our city, like many believe.

[jmt18325]

And where will them money magically come from to do all of these things. You do realize how much freeway interchanges cost, right?

[RTD]

Yes I do realize how much they cost, but like I said, smart cities will invest $$$ in both road and transit infrastructures in order to improve travel throughout a city. Short-term pain = long-term gain. Efficient planners also realize this, but unfortunately Winnipeg lacks intelligent planners (and civic leadership), if we have any planners at all.

[1ajs]

we need transit to service the industrial parks alot better for the commuters so u can go one end to the other with ease

[jmt18325]

Do we have a traffic problem? Has the city not in reality kept up with need? The reality is yes. We don't have a traffic problem in Winnipeg, and our infrastructure is improving now. Spending billions that we don't have on interchanges that we don't need (I'm not saying we won't need any either) that we'll have to spend hundreds of millions to keep up isn't going to do us any good. We have an opportunity with transit to really change this city into a very urban environment. Freeways won't do anything positive. Gradual infrastructure improvements on the other hand will.

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

we need transit to service the industrial parks alot better for the commuters so u can go one end to the other with ease

We need transit routes and connections that actually take people where they want to go efficiently. This BRT isn't going to help that. It's just an expensive way of bypassing 2 traffic bottlenecks (confusion corner and the Pembina/Jubilee underpass) which for the same money they likely could have built the long planned interchange at Confusion Corner to safely and efficiently handle the traffic that uses that intersection and implemented Transit efficiencies elsewhere in the city. The whole route structure of Winnipeg Transit needs a revamp in order to serve the needs of this city. BRT = smoke and mirrors.

To get people out of their cars and into buses the buses have to take people where they want to go in an efficient manor. Right now unless you live and work on a busy transit corridor it just doesn't happen.

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by jmt18325

Gradual infrastructure improvements on the other hand will.

Agreed. But the improvements need to be where they are actually needed now before they implement things which will be needed in the future (pointing at the 2 expressways through nowhere currently being planned).

[jmt18325]

The busway (when phase 2 is done) will allow people to move much more quickly along the busiest transit routes in the city (those between downtown and the U of M). It seems that they are taking people where they want to go.

[Kinguni]

Key is : "when phase 2 is done", whenever that might be. Near same result could be achieved with priority measures and strategic traffic bypass lanes for buses. Phase 2 needs a new overpass at Pembina Hwy. and a new overpass at Bishop Grandin Blvd. It's to be built to LRT standards after all. I guess once Phase 1 is open we'll see what kind of difference it makes. I'm optimistic, but there are so many unanswered questions about the implementation.

How are the buses going to efficiently navigate downtown bottlenecks?
How are people going to conveniently make their connections at Confusion Corner with the bus stops moved almost 2 blocks away?

It doesn't nothing for the current issues in the system, that is travelling around the perimeter of the city, and that is where I'm talking about taking people where they want to go. Yes, the BRT addresses one specific busy corridor. But the people who will be using it are people that are already using it. There won't be any more riders unless they can prove to current automobile users this will be a more efficient means of getting to where they are going. I don't see that happening.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by RTD

You can do both transit and improve road infrastructure and be practical at the same time. My goodness, if you want to have an improved city, you are going to need to spend $$$ in order to achieve effectiveness. I don't believe cutting corners will be the best for our city for the long-term benefits of our city, like many believe.

Cutting corners is what our Provincial and Municipal Governments do best. They look for the short term benefits only. Just look at revenue from the Casinos that the city built in the early 90's vs the long term costs of Gambling Addiction, broken families, and increased crime. It's not a pretty picture.

[jmt18325]

The provincial government owns the casinos, not the city.

[1ajs]

yea and it was a result of some experimental tempory casinos they set up in the late 80's witch were a instant hit witch set the stone for more witch then lead to the casinos being built

my source is a copy of the freep from back then at a pack rat friends house

[grumpy old man]

Anyone honestly believe the only rationale used to decide if a casino would be viable in Winnipeg was an "experimental temporary" casino?

[1ajs]

that was set up in a gym also if i am not mistaken we were under concervitive rule at the time...