Investors Group Field | Winnipeg

[Only The Lonely..]

Point Douglas residents, premier eye new stadium proposal

Last Updated: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 | 9:21 AM CT - CBC Manitoba

People in Winnipeg's Point Douglas area who were concerned about the effects a proposed football stadium might have on their neighbourhood are relieved the proposal has flown south.

The latest proposal from businessman David Asper would locate a stadium on the University of Manitoba campus, in the south end of the city. The proposal replaces a previous one, unveiled in June, that would have involved 20 hectares of land in the inner-city Point Douglas neighbourhood.

Sel Burrows, head of the Point Douglas Residents Association, said a lot of his neighbours were worried their homes could be steamrolled by the major development.

"The stadium … had so much potential for damage to our community and such a very narrow upside, if it was done really well, that it is probably much, much better for everybody that it is out there at the university," he said.

"We were ready to go to the Supreme Court if they tried to put something in there that was not good for the community," he said.

Area will be redeveloped: mayor
Although it appears the stadium won't be headed to the neighbourhood, something else surely will, said Winnipeg Mayor Sam Katz.

"Regardless of a football stadium going there or not going there, there has to be redevelopment taking place in South Point Douglas, and I can assure you that will happen down the road," he said.

"Up until probably a few months ago, there was hardly anybody in the city who could tell you where South Point Douglas is. Everybody now knows where it is, and I think a lot of people now really understand what a jewel it is that we have there."

Burrows said he knows developers will be interested in the area after all the attention it received. He favours development that will address the needs of the residents first, such as a centre for youth programming.

Project 'doable': premier
In this latest proposal, Asper has doubled the amount of private-sector money he's willing to put into the project to $100 million, and halving the amount of money he wants from the provincial and federal governments to $35 million: $20 million from the province and $15 million from Ottawa.

Manitoba Premier Gary Doer says the new plan is an attractive proposal, particularly because it can be used by amateur athletes and community groups.

The $150-million project would include a 30,000-seat CFL stadium that could be expanded to 45,000 seats. (Blueandgold.ca)The new facility would generate $20 million in tax revenues, Doer said, which makes it a worthwhile investment for the province.

"We have a lot more work, but this is doable because it's private-sector driven, and the amount of money being spent by the private sector will generate taxes that we can reinvest in the new facility."

Decisions on the $15 million in federal funding Asper seeks for the project would not come until after the Oct. 14 federal election, but Manitoba's senior MP, Vic Toews, said the plan merits "serious consideration."

Asper said the city has agreed to sell him land on which the current CanadInns Stadium sits in the Polo Park area, but that decision is still subject to approval by city council.

Asper plans to invest $15 million he expects to make redeveloping the current stadium site into a retail venture, into the new stadium project.

Bombers not site-specific
The chair of the Winnipeg Blue Bombers, Ken Hildahl, said there is still a lot of work to be done before the team can sign off on Asper's proposal.

"We certainly haven't, to this point, seen the business plan, nor has it been fully developed," he said. "But I think once the business plan has been developed, we will be able to do our due diligence and just sort of do our analysis and see whether there is a downside," he said.

The Bombers are more concerned about having a new stadium built than where it will be, he added.

"We've said right from the beginning, we are not site-specific. Our goal is a new stadium for Winnipeg football fans. It's a very exciting proposal."

Asper will take over ownership of the Winnipeg football club if the stadium is built.

Inflatable bubble
The $150-million project would include a 30,000-seat CFL stadium that could be expanded to 45,000 seats. It would be built eight metres below ground with an inflatable bubble to cover the facility during the winter months so that it could be used as an amateur sports complex.

The project would also include a 700-stall parkade, a major upgrade to the university's current stadium and a new, state-of-the-art fitness centre.

The university will continue to own the land, offering a long-term lease to Creswin Properties, while the facilities would be community-owned and open to all. The complex would be built with no cost to the university.

[trueviking]

i cant beleive people make such a big deal about the damn bubble part of this proposal.

look at this stadium proposal in ottawa...natural grass...now thats a stadium.

http://www.bringtheworldtoottawa.ca/stadium-plans.php

[Andy6]

I wonder if there will be any commercial developments in the campus area. It would be odd to have a stadium with no restaurants nearby. It is too bad they couldn't somehow build a residential community for students in there somewhere -- looking back on it, the student life at U. of M. was so minimal compared with other universities. The campus needs to be connected to real life in some way. Is there any sort of plan to relocate the Agriculture Canada research station and build something out on the point? That is potentially a very valuable tract of land...you'd think they could sell half of it to a private developer for housing and use the money to develop the other half in some useful way, with a new footbridge over to St. Mary's Road. The university has a great riverfront setting and makes no use of it whatsoever.

Actually, we rarely discuss the University of Manitoba, which seems like such an obviously deficient place in terms of its urban context. I'd be interested to know if anyone knows anything about any plans to improve it.

[Only The Lonely..]

Originally Posted by trueviking

i cant beleive people make such a big deal about the damn bubble part of this proposal.

look at this stadium proposal in ottawa...natural grass...now thats a stadium.

http://www.bringtheworldtoottawa.ca/stadium-plans.php

Could that stadium in Ottawa also be used as a CFL field too, or is it being built strictly with soccer in mind?

I couldn't find anything about CFL expansion on the site.

Just curious..

[Geebrr]

Originally Posted by Only The Lonely..

Could that stadium in Ottawa also be used as a CFL field too, or is it being built strictly with soccer in mind?

I couldn't find anything about CFL expansion on the site.

Just curious..

The stadium design itself...meh, but the field is 110 metres long, as we know the CFL field is 150 yards, so looking at the diagram, not really.

Bowl seating is the way to design a stadium, the horseshoe is inferior. As for natural grass...meh, artificial grass drains better, less maintenance, and the difference in playing surface is negligible. Thats why Commonwealth is switching to artificial grass, and the vast majority of new stadiums built in the NFL are built with artificial grass. Grass and Canadian weather don't work well.

[Geebrr]

These are fixed seats, so I don't see how they would add another 20 yards at each end.

[thegreattait]

Originally Posted by Andy6

I wonder if there will be any commercial developments in the campus area. It would be odd to have a stadium with no restaurants nearby. It is too bad they couldn't somehow build a residential community for students in there somewhere -- looking back on it, the student life at U. of M. was so minimal compared with other universities. The campus needs to be connected to real life in some way. Is there any sort of plan to relocate the Agriculture Canada research station and build something out on the point? That is potentially a very valuable tract of land...you'd think they could sell half of it to a private developer for housing and use the money to develop the other half in some useful way, with a new footbridge over to St. Mary's Road. The university has a great riverfront setting and makes no use of it whatsoever.

Actually, we rarely discuss the University of Manitoba, which seems like such an obviously deficient place in terms of its urban context. I'd be interested to know if anyone knows anything about any plans to improve it.

There is actually a large plan devoted to future developments at the U of M and it includes building residential spaces on that east point. There was also talk of a foot bridge to st.vital. I can't remember if its posted on line, but I remember it being presented in my architecture class at the u of m last spring. Its actually a plan from a couple of years ago, I'll see if I can track it down.

[craner]

Originally Posted by Geebrr

The stadium design itself...meh, but the field is 110 metres long, as we know the CFL field is 140 yards, so looking at the diagram, not really.

Bowl seating is the way to design a stadium, the horseshoe is inferior. As for natural grass...meh, artificial grass drains better, less maintenance, and the difference in playing surfact is negligible. Thats why Commonwealth is switching to artificial grass, and the vast majority of new stadiums built in the NFL are built with artificial grass. Grass and Canadian weather don't work well.

I didn't know this about Commonwealth - the last natural grass surface in the CFL. Makes sense with the quality of the new field turf.

I really hope that Winnipeg gets a new stadium (along with most of the other existing and possible expansion CFL cities). The fact that Asper is only asking $15 million from Ottawa should help I would think. It would be nice if the Winnipeg site could be close to downtown - is there any sites around the ballpark ? Anyway, the U of M proposal sounds good. McMahon stadium in Calgary is on the U of C Campus and is owned by the University I believe. I got my fingers crossed for ya.

[Geebrr]

Originally Posted by craner

I didn't know this about Commonwealth - the last natural grass surface in the CFL. Makes sense with the quality of the new field turf.

I really hope that Winnipeg gets a new stadium (along with most of the other existing and possible expansion CFL cities). The fact that Asper is only asking $15 million from Ottawa should help I would think. It would be nice if the Winnipeg site could be close to downtown - is there any sites around the ballpark ? Anyway, the U of M proposal sounds good. McMahon stadium in Calgary is on the U of C Campus and is owned by the University I believe. I got my fingers crossed for ya.

Dammit, you included my typo of 140 yards instead of 150! Also "surface"...trying to do too many things at once here. I have heard from many a friend in Edmonton that they have heard it is coming, and just a matter of time.

We all have our fingers crossed, it would be great for Winnipeg, and great for the league. Hopefully it could provide a framework for new parks in a few other places that need them.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by thegreattait

There is actually a large plan devoted to future developments at the U of M and it includes building residential spaces on that east point. There was also talk of a foot bridge to st.vital. I can't remember if its posted on line, but I remember it being presented in my architecture class at the u of m last spring. Its actually a plan from a couple of years ago, I'll see if I can track it down.

Thanks. It should be a separate thread, I guess. I should add that the University is far more attractive now than when I attended, when everything was falling to bits and they still had those unsightly WW II quonset huts and the trailer thing stuck on the lawn in front of the Buller Building and the tumbledown Bison Gardens -- what a dump.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by Geebrr

The stadium design itself...meh, but the field is 110 metres long, as we know the CFL field is 150 yards, so looking at the diagram, not really.

Bowl seating is the way to design a stadium, the horseshoe is inferior. As for natural grass...meh, artificial grass drains better, less maintenance, and the difference in playing surface is negligible. Thats why Commonwealth is switching to artificial grass, and the vast majority of new stadiums built in the NFL are built with artificial grass. Grass and Canadian weather don't work well.

commonwealth is not switching to plastic...your friend is wrong.

the stage is retractable to allow a CFL field.

horseshoe designs allow expandability so a team can host a 50 000 seat grey cup and not be burdened with a stadium that size the rest of the time.

the difference between plastic and grass is not negligible....plastic limits the use to a single sport....canadian football...yes some fields are approved for soccer, but the reality is that it is not a proper surface for that sport...that is why BMO in toronto is changing to grass and the senior men's soccer team begged the CSA to schedule all of their games at saputo in montreal and not at the so called 'national soccer stadium'....other sports such as rugby or track and field events in the case of edmonton, can not be accommodated on plastic.

day to day maintenance might be less with plastic, but new generation plastic fields cost 2 million dollars to install and need to be replaced every 5 or 6 years....more often if it used for amatuer sport....BMO has seen a major decline in field quality in only 2 seasons.

only 13 of the 32 fields in the NFL are plastic turf.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by craner

I didn't know this about Commonwealth - the last natural grass surface in the CFL. Makes sense with the quality of the new field turf..
:

the second last grass field in the CFL was winnipeg stadium.

[JayM]

Originally Posted by trueviking

i cant beleive people make such a big deal about the damn bubble part of this proposal.

look at this stadium proposal in ottawa...natural grass...now thats a stadium.

http://www.bringtheworldtoottawa.ca/stadium-plans.php

As far as i know the location of this proposal is a bad idea as a lot of people dont want the hassle from being in Kanata. The Lansdowne location is good where it is go off of that.

Not to mention the fact Ottawa's place for getting a MLS team is kinda low priority.

[Biff]

Andy, check the U of M thread.

[Only The Lonely..]

U of M says it could handle CFL traffic
By: Nick Martin

Updated: September 17 at 02:55 AM CDT | Winnipeg Free Press

The University of Manitoba could handle the people and traffic that a Canadian Football League game would bring to campus, since there are already 30,000 people on campus every day, president David Barnard said Tuesday.

He cautioned that a proposal by businessman David Asper to build a new stadium on the Fort Garry campus for the Winnipeg Blue Bombers is in its very early stages.

"It's potentially transformative."

A stadium would greatly increase the university's interaction with the broader community, Barnard said, while providing new fitness facilities for the campus.

Barnard said U of M has a substantial road network and parking, although he pointed out that clearing spectators and their cars after a game would be a greater challenge.

Barnard spoke after taking part in the annual general meeting of U of M's board of governors. The meeting covered reports of the 2007-2008 school year, and no one attending the meeting or linked by the web posed any questions about the stadium proposal.

"We haven't had a lot of questions being raised," the president said.

Barnard said he has not spoken to his counterparts at McGill University or the University of Calgary, whose stadiums also host CFL games.

Nor has anyone so far raised the long-standing idea of a pedestrian bridge across the Red River to connect the campus to St. Vital, he said.

Barnard said the recent announcement at city hall of a rapid transit system to the campus would be significant in bringing crowds to CFL games.

nick.martin@freepress.mb.ca

[Only The Lonely..]

WFP: Letters to the Editor

Stadium wrong for U of M

As a longtime resident living close to the University of Manitoba, I am very concerned about the impact a nearby football stadium would have on the community.

A giant stadium dominating the skyline of this part of town would be totally out of character with the current low-rise buildings and houses in the area -- not to mention the lights, the noise, the added traffic and parking issues. And what year-round activities do they plan to have there besides football? Where is the city's commitment to maintaining the green spaces in the city?

The U of M and the adjacent community are not Polo Park. Yes, Pembina Highway is largely commercial, but the university campus and the area adjacent have always been a quiet, low-key neighbourhood.

Pity the poor people who have just moved into the condominium complex behind the Victoria General Hospital. Not only did they not know that the golf course they look out on would be sold to the university for development, now they have to worry about a football stadium being built within sight of their homes in the sports complex area on Matheson Avenue and University Crescent.

One of the nice things about the university campus as it exists at present is that it does not impact negatively on the surrounding area -- in fact, it adds to it. That should not change.

And what about the Victoria hospital, which is close to the land under consideration? Will the board of the hospital be happy to have a noise and light pollutant next door?

Anything of that size will intrude on the community and in a city of this size and land availability, it need not happen. Polo Park is still the best option with the least overall impact on existing city communities.

We do not need a new Blue home. Keep our local community green.


KAREN RICE

Winnipeg


Consultation lacking

Now I know how the people of Point Douglas felt. I live in Fort Richmond, hemmed in by the university, which is no problem except on marathon day. There has been no consultation with the residents, or even, as far as I know, with our city councillor (he is silent). We have no assurances that there has been planning to avert the traffic chaos, and no victim impact studies. Why do we have to put up with closed-door dealings in public matters?


Allan Turnock

Winnipeg

[Only The Lonely..]

Naysayers have all the wrong reasons to hate stadium plan

Paul Wiecek

Updated: September 17 at 02:55 AM CDT | Winnipeg Free Press

There are good reasons to be opposed to the University of Manitoba as the site of a new football stadium. You're just not likely to be hearing any of them as we debate David Asper's new proposal in the weeks, months -- and seeing as this is Winnipeg -- probably years to come.

That's because any serious discussion of the issues -- not the least of which is the idea of adding to the already growing chasm that divides the lives of people in north Winnipeg from those in south Winnipeg -- will be lost in the endless cacophony of whining that accompanies any announcement of a new sports facility in this town.

Remember the downtown ballpark debate? It was going to sully all the wonderful green space at The Forks, notwithstanding the fact the green space in question was littered with used syringes at the time.

Then there was the endless debate over the MTS Centre. We'd be less of a city for the loss of the historic Eaton's building, we were told, notwithstanding the fact history was overrun with rats at the time Mark Chipman mercifully brought in a wrecking ball.

Both those sports facilities are now touted as jewels of our downtown, but that's not going to curtail the avalanche of naysaying you'll soon be hearing about the U of M stadium location.

I'll save you the time and trouble and encapsulate it now:

"Good Lord, where will we park? In his announcement Saturday, Asper said a new 700-stall parkade will be built as part of the new 30,000-seat complex, but most fans will need to use a new "fan-tram" to access the 7,000 or so existing parking spaces scattered throughout the U of M campus. Expect this to be a big sticking point among the loud minority in this city who expect to be able to park the Oldsmobile on the front stairs of whatever facility they're entering. Gratis, natch.

"All that tax money could be better used to (insert favourite cause here). Expect to hear very little about the $115 million in private money going into the project. Expect to hear endlessly about the $35 million in federal and provincial tax money that would also be required.

"Asper is up to something here and will, the big sneak, probably make money off this idea. Well, yeah, that's what bazillionaires do. But in this case, Asper only makes money if the rest of us enjoy his stadium -- and the new retail complex he'll build on the present stadium site at Polo Park -- so much that we go there a lot.

Toss in some noise complaints (one area resident has already complained that the new stadium PA system will keep junior up at nights) and you have what will in all likelihood be the public case against a U of M stadium.

What you likely won't hear about is how adding a new public palace on the south side of town will simply add to the growing sense that people on the north side have that they really are living on the wrong side of the tracks.

And while we're on that subject, if we're going to spend millions on a new fitness facility -- and that's what Asper's proposal also calls for -- there's a myriad of places in the city that need it more than the U of M, including the corner of McGregor and Mountain, where for decades a now closed North End YMCA kept thousands of kids, including me, inside swimming in the pool instead of outside stealing your car.

Those kids are now supposed to take a bus downtown where they'll catch a ride, some day, on a rapid transit line that will take them to the U of M? Talk about a workout. And talk about putting the cart before the horse, literally.

Alas, it's not talk you'll soon be hearing. Because it's talk that will soon be drowned out by a lot of other talk, most of it trivial.

paul.wiecek@freepress.mb.ca

[FFX-ME]

Originally Posted by JayM

As far as i know the location of this proposal is a bad idea as a lot of people dont want the hassle from being in Kanata. The Lansdowne location is good where it is go off of that.

Not to mention the fact Ottawa's place for getting a MLS team is kinda low priority.

The location is actually good since burocracy in ottawa tends to screw things up extremely badly, like the o-train situation, lawsuit, its why ottawa is so bland. But Melnyk already owns that land and plans to fund it, not the city making it a lot more feasible than having to deal with the city, neighborhoods etc. The truth is, Ottawa doesnt have the time to wait for all that stuff, MLS isnt like the CFL, CFL seaches for cities to add to the league, they are desparate but with MLS its the other way around, cities want the team and Ottawa doesnt have a sure bet and they need to be in shape by 2011. CFL in Ottawa can wait though since CFL wants to put a team in Ottawa

[DowntownWpg]

At least with that Ottawa concept, we can get a sense of what the interior/bowl area will look like. The Asper plan... I'm still waiting.

Personally, I like the idea of more seating concentrated at the sides of the field (like where our grandstands are at this time). The way I see it, from the little we can ascertain of the Asperplex, it's just a complete bowl with the seating at the same height all the way around.

Translation: more seats in the corners and end zones, less on the side. This is important for football especially... if you've ever sat in the North End Zone and tried to make out if there was a first down on a play, you'll know what I'm talking about.

Maybe I'm missing something, but from the little I've seen (the renderings are really just of the exterior), it's like removing the upper decks, and spreading that seating around in the corners and the end zones. Less people get to have a view from the side.

I'm sure there's better architectural lingo for what I'm trying to say here, but I think you get my point.

[JayM]

Originally Posted by FFX-ME

The location is actually good since burocracy in ottawa tends to screw things up extremely badly, like the o-train situation, lawsuit, its why ottawa is so bland. But Melnyk already owns that land and plans to fund it, not the city making it a lot more feasible than having to deal with the city, neighborhoods etc. The truth is, Ottawa doesnt have the time to wait for all that stuff, MLS isnt like the CFL, CFL seaches for cities to add to the league, they are desparate but with MLS its the other way around, cities want the team and Ottawa doesnt have a sure bet and they need to be in shape by 2011. CFL in Ottawa can wait though since CFL wants to put a team in Ottawa

Thing is this concept is totally for a Soccer field not a Football field, the design is nice but lack of effort to include a 150yard field sucks. If the team of guys who are representing the conditional CFL Franchise could hook up with Melnyk im sure there could be a plan. Could work out with both future and more realistic CFL then MLS so why not support the more approachable idea. Get the ball rolling and things moving, lets pick up the pace the CFL is not going to get any bigger or popular when its lacking teams. Even if there has been the same locations since the CFL was formed. Halifax, Saskatoon, Quebec, and yeah Ottawa all good places.