Impact of current and 21st century immigrants' culture on US cities' culture?

[Capsicum]

One thing I've noticed is that while cultural elements from 20th century immigrants (who are now seen as "assimilated") have made it into North American culture (e.g. Yiddish slang in NYC, Mexican-American culture in LA), now so that many people across the US merely view it as mainstream, the late 20th century and 21st century immigration waves are still making their presence felt in the culture, but often only locally (especially in big cities). Will that generation have increasing influence?

Consider that immigants who came and had kids in the late 90s and 2000s have essentially young adult, college-aged kids now in 2020, who now come of age in a more multicultural society.

One example which is still fairly new to me (as a millenial but who grew up in that part of Canada) is that in Greater Toronto and also in Ottawa, some amount of Somali and Arabic slang has already made it into high schools, used by kids of all backgrounds. For example, "wallahi" meaning "I swear to God", in situations like "wallahi, I'm not lying, this guy is totally cheating on her".

https://www.narcity.com/ca/on/ottawa...-at-least-once

Another thing seems to be Indian food is at least mainstream now in a way that wasn't necessarily so even across large US metros not too long ago (it was so obviously much earlier in the UK), and now many Americans use words like "chai". Also, even though Chinese and Japanese food were popular in the US already for more than a generation now, it seems like for at least this generation, ability to use chopsticks is normalized (if you look at many big city cafeterias and food courts) and not seen as odd at all any more.

What elements of US or North American major cities' cultures do you think are going to be brought into the mainstream by this generation of immigrants or the next? And will these elements be localized to particular cities (e.g. will there be a distinct Houston Pakistani culture and Chicago Pakistani culture the way there was a distinctive Texas German one and Midwestern German one?). Or will assimilation override any potential development of new culture in this way?

I'm thinking about these cultural elements penetrating the mainstream of various cities (so that for instance, people no longer see that thing as "exotic" but part of the city's culture). I feel like there's some lag time (e.g. Scandinavian culture is seen as part of Minnesota's culture by most Americans, but the idea that say Somali culture is, is still not super well felt, yet, by outsiders).

[JManc]

Back when Jews, Mexicans, Germans first settled, they had the run of the place as immigrants and established large communities. Now Pakistanis, Indians, Somalis and other more recent immigrant groups are immersed with other cultures and don't have the luxury of carving out their own niche like past ethnic groups.

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by JManc

Back when Jews, Mexicans, Germans first settled, they had the run of the place as immigrants and established large communities. Now Pakistanis, Indians, Somalis and other more recent immigrant groups are immersed with other cultures and don't have the luxury of carving out their own niche like past ethnic groups.

But isn't it still a matter of degree? Jews intermingled with other immigrant groups like Italians, Irish in NYC when NYC was already a bustling city, not just settled in isolated outposts (or rural areas like say Germans in small town Wisconsin or Texas). But urban NYC Jewish culture came to define an era, alongside with Italians, Irish, Puerto Ricans etc. We use the Yiddish/Italian-American slang today of that culture for instance in everyday talk and media (e.g. "shmaltz" or "Fuggedaboutit!").

And also (not 21st century, but late 20th century) wouldn't these examples of Chinese American (and Canadian) enclaves, shops and gathering places count as modern enclaves, even if suburban?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chines...Gabriel_Valley
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Mall

Plus, even if they (21st century immigrants) intermingle, what's to say they can't define/co-create a culture? Even in non-US examples, immigrants have contributed to the national culture while being integrated (e.g. Middle Eastern culture in Latin America as shown by people like Shakira).

[TexasPlaya]

Here in Austin and Houston, the rise of Indians is pretty noticeable, particularly in the suburbs. DFW is probably the largest destination in Texas with Houston not too far behind. There's a large grass, courtyard in the middle of my complex that has a cricket game happening every evening before it gets too dark.

[badrunner]

I read the title as Impact of curry and 21st century immigrants' culture on US cities' culture?

[dc_denizen]

Ppl have to pursue careers in the arts and culture for immigrants’ experiences to percolate into the broader culture. Hasn’t really happened in the us


I must study politics and war, that our sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. Our sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history and naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry and porcelain.
-John Adams

[eschaton]

The trend over the last 20 years or so has been immigrants forgoing cities and migrating straight to the suburbs. Thus I don't think they'll have a tremendous impact on urban culture.

[pdxtex]

There are many factors that might influence their impact on the local culture. Most of all it's up to the individual to decide how much they want to embrace their new community. Some immigrants join already established and influential communities but choose to remain within its insularity. Others go out of their way to join the greater culture bult also teach the host something new.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by eschaton

The trend over the last 20 years or so has been immigrants forgoing cities and migrating straight to the suburbs. Thus I don't think they'll have a tremendous impact on urban culture.

Yep, the rise of the ethno-burb.

Really great ethnic restaurants. (Yay)

But in a strip mall. (Boo)

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

Ppl have to pursue careers in the arts and culture for immigrants’ experiences to percolate into the broader culture. Hasn’t really happened in the us


I must study politics and war, that our sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. Our sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history and naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry and porcelain.
-John Adams

The US epitomizes the example of a country of immigrants, but do immigrants not get a chance to influence the culture until their kids or grandkids get settled? When did say Jewish Americans or Italian Americans' culture percolate into the broader culture?

Also, African Americans (though not immigrants) were underrepresented before the 1950s in American culture in a large way from media but clearly afterwards, African American culture became one of the strongest aspects of American culture (that made it different from other western or broadly speaking English-speaking cultures).

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by eschaton

The trend over the last 20 years or so has been immigrants forgoing cities and migrating straight to the suburbs. Thus I don't think they'll have a tremendous impact on urban culture.

Is this because suburbanites don't have a large impact on their urban areas' cultures more broadly speaking?

It seems like Italian Americans, Jewish Americans etc. had a strong influence on NYC when they lived in the city primarily (and shaped a great part of the urban east coast culture in the early to mid 20th century), but now they are suburban mostly.

[wwmiv]

There are definitely newer immigrant groups that are changing their respective cities cultures:

African immigrants in Minneapolis, Arab immigrants in and around Detroit, etc.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

There are definitely newer immigrant groups that are changing their respective cities cultures:

African immigrants in Minneapolis, Arab immigrants in and around Detroit, etc.

Arab immigrants aren't new to Detroit, though. There has been a large Middle Eastern population in the region for about a century.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

It seems like Italian Americans, Jewish Americans etc. had a strong influence on NYC when they lived in the city primarily (and shaped a great part of the urban east coast culture in the early to mid 20th century), but now they are suburban mostly.

NYC is probably more Jewish right now than in many decades, owing to Orthodox growth.

But, yeah, secular Jews mass-vacated urban American from the 1950's-1970's. They actually left earlier than the more working class Italians. Bensonhurst and Canarsie were both Jewish before they were Italian.

[kool maudit]

"Wallah" is big here too.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

Is this because suburbanites don't have a large impact on their urban areas' cultures more broadly speaking?

Immigrants move to the suburbs these days for a host of different reasons.

1. Some groups (particularly South/East Asians) come to the U.S. already middle class, and thus seek to move to the same sort of single-family homes in "good school districts" that white Americans do.

2. A lot of lower-income immigrants follow service industry jobs. Most of these jobs are in the suburbs, and thus most of these immigrants find it easiest to locate in the suburbs.

3. In large portions of the country, when you factor either relatively small historic urban cores (in the Sun Belt) or gentrification (in high-cost areas) the cheapest rental units are often in dated "garden apartment" complexes well outside of the city.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

One thing I've noticed is that while cultural elements from 20th century immigrants (who are now seen as "assimilated") have made it into North American culture (e.g. Yiddish slang in NYC, Mexican-American culture in LA), now so that many people across the US merely view it as mainstream, the late 20th century and 21st century immigration waves are still making their presence felt in the culture, but often only locally (especially in big cities). Will that generation have increasing influence?

Consider that immigants who came and had kids in the late 90s and 2000s have essentially young adult, college-aged kids now in 2020, who now come of age in a more multicultural society.

One example which is still fairly new to me (as a millenial but who grew up in that part of Canada) is that in Greater Toronto and also in Ottawa, some amount of Somali and Arabic slang has already made it into high schools, used by kids of all backgrounds. For example, "wallahi" meaning "I swear to God", in situations like "wallahi, I'm not lying, this guy is totally cheating on her".

https://www.narcity.com/ca/on/ottawa...-at-least-once

Another thing seems to be Indian food is at least mainstream now in a way that wasn't necessarily so even across large US metros not too long ago (it was so obviously much earlier in the UK), and now many Americans use words like "chai". Also, even though Chinese and Japanese food were popular in the US already for more than a generation now, it seems like for at least this generation, ability to use chopsticks is normalized (if you look at many big city cafeterias and food courts) and not seen as odd at all any more.

What elements of US or North American major cities' cultures do you think are going to be brought into the mainstream by this generation of immigrants or the next? And will these elements be localized to particular cities (e.g. will there be a distinct Houston Pakistani culture and Chicago Pakistani culture the way there was a distinctive Texas German one and Midwestern German one?). Or will assimilation override any potential development of new culture in this way?

I'm thinking about these cultural elements penetrating the mainstream of various cities (so that for instance, people no longer see that thing as "exotic" but part of the city's culture). I feel like there's some lag time (e.g. Scandinavian culture is seen as part of Minnesota's culture by most Americans, but the idea that say Somali culture is, is still not super well felt, yet, by outsiders).

Considering how early we are in the 21st century I think thats hard to speculate on.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

But isn't it still a matter of degree? Jews intermingled with other immigrant groups like Italians, Irish in NYC when NYC was already a bustling city, not just settled in isolated outposts (or rural areas like say Germans in small town Wisconsin or Texas). But urban NYC Jewish culture came to define an era, alongside with Italians, Irish, Puerto Ricans etc. We use the Yiddish/Italian-American slang today of that culture for instance in everyday talk and media (e.g. "shmaltz" or "Fuggedaboutit!").

But those legacy immigrant groups came in huge numbers in relation to the 'native' population at the top and were able to carve out their own communities and then influence their respective areas; Italians in the northeast, Mexicans in the SW, Jews in NYC and Germans in Texas, where as more recent immigrant groups were competing with one another and everyone else.

[park123]

East and even more so South Asians in the USA are following the Jewish immigrant experience in the USA. Upwardly mobile, over-represented in elite professions, and in the case of South Asian-Americans, occupying a space of "fully fluent in American culture, but not Christian" that was created by Jewish people.

Latinos are more following perhaps the Italian immigrant experience. More working class, but still ultimately assimilated into an ever broadening definition of "whiteness".

Of course both groups (Asian and Latinos) have already had an enormous influence on American culture. In Texas and most of the western half of the USA, Mexican food is the native food. Almost everyone in the USA studies Spanish as a 2nd language (without ever being able to speak more than sentence fragments lol). Asians are making progress in entertainment, and have been strong in the professions and C-suites for decades already. Japanese, Chinese and Korean food are popular on the coasts...

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by park123

East and even more so South Asians in the USA are following the Jewish immigrant experience in the USA. Upwardly mobile, over-represented in elite professions, and in the case of South Asian-Americans, occupying a space of "fully fluent in American culture, but not Christian" that was created by Jewish people.

Latinos are more following perhaps the Italian immigrant experience. More working class, but still ultimately assimilated into an ever broadening definition of "whiteness".

I know this is not the main point but South Asians usually aren't poor when they come to the U.S., and that's why they are over-represented in elite professions. This is quite different from how many Jewish families came to the U.S.