Seattle Is Dying (and it's not alone)

[Pedestrian]

• Video Link

[Steely Dan]

^ video link isn't working for me.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

^ video link isn't working for me.

I added the full youtube link so it can be watched on their site. Incidentally, I'm not trying to pick on Seattle. Everything in this video applies in spades to San Francisco. It's just that we don't have a TV station brave enough to make such a video which probably means we're in more serious trouble than Seattle is.

[mhays]

It's dying from exploding resident, worker, and tourist populations?

I haven't seen the video, but headlines like that are written for clicks only.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by mhays

It's dying from exploding resident, worker, and tourist populations?

I haven't seen the video, but headlines like that are written for clicks only.

Don't comment on what you haven't seen. And the problem isn't peculiar to Seattle though it seems especially severe on the left coast. It's just that a Seattle media outlet seems to recognize it more acutely than others even if you aren't interested.

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

Wasn't this already posted a few months ago?

If so, I missed it . . . but the problem is certainly no better.

Anybody got anything to say about the issue rather than the messenger? It is a long video but you only have to watch 10 or 15 minutes to get the idea.

[James Bond Agent 007]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

And the problem isn't peculiar to Seattle though it seems especially severe on the left coast.

I was in Grant's Pass, OR recently and noticed, for a city its size, it had a large number of homeless people. There were homeless people hanging out in suburban shopping centers, walking along the freeway, hanging out downtown, and you name it.

Grant's Pass is a conservative area so it's hardly a "left" coast thing. But if you look at a map of homeless rates by state you notice it's definitely a west coast thing. Even Alaska, which can hardly be called a bastion of liberalism, has high homelessness rates.

When I was noticing all the homeless people in Grant's Pass I got the impression a sizable percentage of the homeless were simply vagabond types. I think the combination of the gentle climate and the nice scenery encourages free-spirited vagabonds to concentrate on the west coast. If you tried that in Kansas City, for example, you'd have to put up with blistering cold in the winter and hot and muggy weather in the summer.

Though I suspect the easy availability of drugs on the west coast contributes to it. You get to be a vagabond AND get stoned, too. Even in Grant's Pass there were marijuana stores everywhere.

[James Bond Agent 007]

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

I was in Grant's Pass, OR recently and noticed, for a city its size, it had a large number of homeless people. There were homeless people hanging out in suburban shopping centers, walking along the freeway, hanging out downtown, and you name it.

Grant's Pass is a conservative area so it's hardly a "left" coast thing. But if you look at a map of homeless rates by state you notice it's definitely a west coast thing. Even Alaska, which can hardly be called a bastion of liberalism, has high homelessness rates.

When I was noticing all the homeless people in Grant's Pass I got the impression a sizable percentage of the homeless were simply vagabond types. I think the combination of the gentle climate and the nice scenery encourages free-spirited vagabonds to concentrate on the west coast. If you tried that in Kansas City, for example, you'd have to put up with blistering cold in the winter and hot and muggy weather in the summer.

Though I suspect the easy availability of drugs on the west coast contributes to it. You get to be a vagabond AND get stoned, too. Even in Grant's Pass there were marijuana stores everywhere.

Here's a map showing homelessness rates per 10K people, as of 2018. As I said, it's heavily a west coast phenomenon. Except for NY and MA, the only states that have rates over 50 are on the west coast. Even both Alaska and Hawaii are in that category.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

Here's a map showing homelessness rates per 10K people, as of 2018. As I said, it's heavily a west coast phenomenon. Except for NY and MA, the only states that have rates over 50 are on the west coast. Even both Alaska and Hawaii are in that category.

Why is the homeless rate so low in TX, another large state with high inequality and warm weather but with much lower social services spending? Part of the answer is more affordable housing costs. TX must have similar rates of mental illness as west coast cities. It likely has lower levels of drug addiction.

[James Bond Agent 007]

Wasn't this already posted a few months ago?

[mhays]

Oh that. It had a lot of truth, but the headline was written for clicks...obviously a city that's currently booming isn't "dying."

I doubt you've heard the local chatter about the report (obviously!)...glad you're speaking up without knowing about that.

[chris08876]

Yeah Seattle is not dying by any means. Biggest boom town on the West Coast and continuing strong.

[Nouvellecosse]

I watched the whole thing when it first came out. At first I had concerns in the sense that from the tone it seemed like it was going to be a gish gallop of general unrelated grievances meant to give a sky is falling type message, but they actually did a fairly good job of focusing onto the thesis that there's a poor mental health and substance abuse strategy. It seems there's a genuine conflict caused by the desire of public officials to avoid funneling too many people into the prison system which tends to be an issue in the US. But in this case the strategy is incomplete because it manages to avoids excessive criminalization but doesn't provide an alternative for people who do need more attention than to just be let be. They do suggest some possible alternatives, (although I don't remember a lot of details since I watched it months ago) and whether or not the suggestions are as effective as they suggest, I did find the presentation quite persuasive.

[dubu]

at the end he says that everyone built the city by working and everything, I doubt that. everyone wanted money and they said ill take money and you do whatever you want with the city. every city is built the same, if everyone living in the city built it then cities would look different. that's the only thing I didn't agree with, it was off topic but this is a city forum.

[pdxtex]

this is a west coast phenomenon only as far i can tell. east coast and southern cities are mean to homeless people. west coast cities seem more tolerant but its to our detriment. the street scene is portland is out of control right now.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by pdxtex

this is a west coast phenomenon only as far i can tell. east coast and southern cities are mean to homeless people. west coast cities seem more tolerant but its to our detriment. the street scene is portland is out of control right now.

I don't know if it's to the detriment of the west coast. Seattle, and Portland have lower violent crime rates than any major metro located east of the Mississippi. San Francisco and Los Angeles, as well, have lower rates than almost all of them.

The western states, in general, tilt more towards libertarianism than authoritarianism. The southeast is probably the most authoritarian region of the country. The Midwest and Mid-Atlantic also tilt more toward authority/law and order. New England seems to tilt a little more towards libertarianism.

[austlar1]

Originally Posted by pdxtex

this is a west coast phenomenon only as far i can tell. east coast and southern cities are mean to homeless people. west coast cities seem more tolerant but its to our detriment. the street scene is portland is out of control right now.

Austin just made it LEGAL for homeless people to sleep in the street, parks, or public property as long as they are not obstructing traffic. It is a boneheaded move. For the past year or two, tent communities of varying size have been showing up underneath freeways and in vacant nearby land. There are people flying signs at every busy intersection. The population is not your old school skid row crowd. It is a mix of young and middle aged people who seem to have a host of substance abuse and mental health issues. I predict that Austin will have a set of problems similar to those found in West Coast cities in the near future. The decision to make this behavior legal seems motivated by the fact that it was already happening, and there is a strong desire to encourage the highly visible homeless population in a certain corner of downtown to gravitate further out away from downtown. Most homeless services are still downtown and draw a large crowd that sleeps on the sidewalks and underpasses nearby.

[Chef]

Half crazy addicts have always existed. In the past they generally lived in the cheapest apartments in the worst neighborhoods. What has changed is that they can't afford those places anymore. There is a strong correlation between high rents and people living on the fringes being homeless. Part of the reason it seems like a west coast problem is that the cities of the west coast are expensive.

One of the perverse things about modern America that we have become numb to is that generally our wealthiest cities are the ones with the worst homelessness. Something has become fundamentally broken in our housing markets. All of our more prosperous cities are slowly turning into San Francisco.

[10023]

Originally Posted by Chef

Half crazy addicts have always existed. In the past they generally lived in the cheapest apartments in the worst neighborhoods. What has changed is that they can't afford those places anymore. There is a strong correlation between high rents and people living on the fringes being homeless. Part of the reason it seems like a west coast problem is that the cities of the west coast are expensive.

One of the perverse things about modern America that we have become numb to is that generally our wealthiest cities are the ones with the worst homelessness. Something has become fundamentally broken in our housing markets. All of our more prosperous cities are slowly turning into San Francisco.

I don’t think this is correct. Most chronic homeless (as opposed to those temporarily homeless) will have addiction or mental health issues. Even in places where there are ample shelters and a legal obligation to house the homeless (like NYC), a lot of people sleep on the street because that’s what they choose to do. They aren’t of sound mind to make that decision, but the state has no legal authority to force them into shelters.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by Chef

Half crazy addicts have always existed. In the past they generally lived in the cheapest apartments in the worst neighborhoods. What has changed is that they can't afford those places anymore. There is a strong correlation between high rents and people living on the fringes being homeless. Part of the reason it seems like a west coast problem is that the cities of the west coast are expensive.

One of the perverse things about modern America that we have become numb to is that generally our wealthiest cities are the ones with the worst homelessness. Something has become fundamentally broken in our housing markets. All of our more prosperous cities are slowly turning into San Francisco.

I am sorry, but how does a jobless drug addict afford any apartment? If you don't work and spend hundreds or thousands on something(drugs, alcohol) which does nothing for you(houses, feeds, utilities etc.) every month, I don't really feel bad you can't afford a house. Sorry. I think we as communities and a nation should help these people with real help, to get them off whatever is ruining thier lives. But why should we give them housing or whatever so they can go out and get fucked up every day and not work?

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Originally Posted by austlar1

Austin just made it LEGAL for homeless people to sleep in the street, parks, or public property as long as they are not obstructing traffic. It is a boneheaded move. For the past year or two, tent communities of varying size have been showing up underneath freeways and in vacant nearby land. There are people flying signs at every busy intersection. The population is not your old school skid row crowd. It is a mix of young and middle aged people who seem to have a host of substance abuse and mental health issues. I predict that Austin will have a set of problems similar to those found in West Coast cities in the near future. The decision to make this behavior legal seems motivated by the fact that it was already happening, and there is a strong desire to encourage the highly visible homeless population in a certain corner of downtown to gravitate further out away from downtown. Most homeless services are still downtown and draw a large crowd that sleeps on the sidewalks and underpasses nearby.

It's not going to go well, trust me. Once they get established, it's extremely difficult to get rid of em. LA settled a lawsuit allowing this in 2009 and it has been getting exponentially worse every year. Seattle, SF, SD, LA, Portland, Vegas, Austin... It's our new normal