PHILADELPHIA-CAMDEN-WILMINGTON-ATLANTIC CITY-READING | Metro Development Thread

[jonesrmj]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

Hello everyone! @jones looks like you have a new buddy because I also love Wilmington & Philly & Chester & etc.

But one thing you must understand, Philly has been a big city hub for 100+ years. Wilmington is now just getting on the train & from the pervious post Ive read you are speaking in passion & good heart.

Wilmington is growing well, I look at all projects & plans just as you have & many others have.

Before Wilmington can attract bigger players certain things have to happen for example here are some things that have to happen or are currently in progress

-Bus station be built /currently under construction

-Roads /Highways updated /Currently under construction or pending

-City Center being rebuilt /Currently under construction

-Neighborhoods being rebuilt aka gentrification /Currently being planned/ built

-Airport / currently being remodeled & services are planned. Now the only reason I believe the airport is coming back after 5 years is because Delaware & Wilmington as a whole is growing & the 301 finally being completed is giving life to connecting us with down south & moving traffic better. This means someone could easily go from middletown to ILG in 30 minutes compared to a Hour on local roads.

-Points of interest/ Wilmington has the riverfront which is starting to pop & look excellent, A bridge being built to connect with 13, which also has 495 0.5 miles down the street is a big WOO. Stadium & hopefully more venues will come to that side of the riverfront. Also southbridge being brought back to life & a big watershed park will also help tremendously.

The reason why Philly & other cities do great is because they have attractions & an atmosphere. Yes Wilmington has one but for a very long time it was very small & limited to 4PM.

Thats what causes people to go to philly instead of Wilmington, people want something to do & Wilmington didnt have that for a long time. They are also 10 years late to the party but its ok, because they are picking up speed.

Give it 5-10 more years bro & Wilmington will be the new talk of the town. I can already see at night the city is looking great & it will get better.

Also you cant disrespect Philly & its getting cleaner. But remember Philly is home of Gritty for a reason.

I agree with a lot of your points, but what makes you say that highways need to be updated? I don't feel like I-95 or I-495 are bad highways, in fact, I feel like they are far better than in most other states that have roads with potholes that shake your car every 2 seconds.

As far as the airport goes, you are correct. Frontier executive Daniel Shurz said that Frontier decided to return to Wilmington because they saw through data that a growing amount of Delawareans were flying out of the Northeast Corridor area and so they felt that there was more demand for flights out of Wilmington Airport. What I don't understand is why Frontier is only flying to Orlando to start with. Daniel Shurz said that they choose to only fly out of Orlando this time around and not the rest of the 7 destinations they used to fly out of Wilmington because they think that starting small will be better. They did say though that if the Orlando route becomes profitable enough (85% full planes), then they would add routes to other destinations around Fall 2020 (maybe sooner). I feel like this will be easily achievable because Frontiers older flights out of Wilmington to Orlando were on average 80-90% full. Shurz did say though that Frontier is hopefully "here to stay" and that they don't restart service thinking they will pull out a few years later. He just claims that their strategy of very slowly adding routes will be a better idea.

I'm also excited to see what the expansions are like for Wilmington Airport. These are the only pictures I could find online:







Also, I don't disrespect Philly. I was just joking with the nickname. I think Philly is a great city.

[Milksteak]

Originally Posted by jonesrmj

I've actually flown out of Wilmington Airport back in 2014 when Frontier was there before. The baggage claim was not in a separate building, it was in the terminal. Also, the floor plan of the new terminal stuff that they are building looks like it may or may not add a second floor with a few gates maybe with jetways/jetbridges like in bigger airports. I'm not 100% if that's exactly what they are doing, but it looks like it to me. So I don't understand why the baggage claim would be a second building.

If they are renovating the whole thing, they may be removing the original and adding this, I don't see anywhere else it could go from the diagram you posted. Could be for a number of reasons, but it looks almost exactly like the Trenton baggage claim, not sure what else they would be highlighting with a big empty room with bay doors.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by jonesrmj

I agree with a lot of your points, but what makes you say that highways need to be updated? I don't feel like I-95 or I-495 are bad highways, in fact, I feel like they are far better than in most other states that have roads with potholes that shake your car every 2 seconds.

As far as the airport goes, you are correct. Frontier executive Daniel Shurz said that Frontier decided to return to Wilmington because they saw through data that a growing amount of Delawareans were flying out of the Northeast Corridor area and so they felt that there was more demand for flights out of Wilmington Airport. What I don't understand is why Frontier is only flying to Orlando to start with. Daniel Shurz said that they choose to only fly out of Orlando this time around and not the rest of the 7 destinations they used to fly out of Wilmington because they think that starting small will be better. They did say though that if the Orlando route becomes profitable enough (85% full planes), then they would add routes to other destinations around Fall 2020 (maybe sooner). I feel like this will be easily achievable because Frontiers older flights out of Wilmington to Orlando were on average 80-90% full. Shurz did say though that Frontier is hopefully "here to stay" and that they don't restart service thinking they will pull out a few years later. He just claims that their strategy of very slowly adding routes will be a better idea.

I'm also excited to see what the expansions are like for Wilmington Airport. These are the only pictures I could find online:




Also, I don't disrespect Philly. I was just joking with the nickname. I think Philly is a great city.

When I say the highways/ roads need to be updated I mean in the sense of capacity & regulation Ex: New lights, ramp curve fixing. Ada sidewalk updates for the local streets & etc.


ILG is gonna test the waters first & whats not better then a flight to a vacation resort like Orlando. If all succeeds the airport will get more improvements & more flights. Supply & demanos in effect.

[jonesrmj]

Here's the video of the conference when Frontier returned to Wilmington:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9bjbnZOMfA

[TonyTone]

Looks like stuff is moving smoothly

I wonder if they will build a store or something here, or that is just an old driveway from old planning.
https://imgur.com/5m581K0

New construction next to the plots in-between the restaurants, I wonder what it will be, GGA website does not show yet.
https://imgur.com/Kr3gVxd

Bus Depot coming along quickly
https://imgur.com/6sA9xjL

Roads coming along quickly
https://imgur.com/bpbKVDH
https://imgur.com/JiiYstQ

Anyone know what the future of this plot will be?
https://imgur.com/8TWXcX8

[Nomad9]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

Anyone know what the future of this plot will be?
https://imgur.com/8TWXcX8

This spot is puzzling every time I drive or walk by. Such a prime piece of real estate—no clue why it hasn’t been developed.

In some other Wilmington news...

Two companies establishing a presence on the riverfront:

-Farmers of Salem: https://www.delawarebusinesstimes.co...em-riverfront/

-CSC: https://www.delawarebusinesstimes.co...on-wilmington/

Getting national press on the budding restaurant scene: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foo...ant%3famp=true

[Jawnadelphia]

The pad between Iron Hill and Big Fish will be Taco Grande - seems like overkill with the Del Pez right up the road, how many taco/mexican places can you have?!

The space between the two new hotels is basically wait and see. See the article below, BPG has the rights for another hotel - a Marriott brand, ideally that hotel would go there, but they are waiting to see if the Chase Convention Center warrants a fourth hotel. I think they probably will end up building another hotel here, as the article states, since the opening of the new Hyatt and Homewood Suites (Hilton)--the Convention Center has landed two decent sized conferences.
https://www.delawarebusinesstimes.co...e-conventions/

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by Jawnadelphia

The pad between Iron Hill and Big Fish will be Taco Grande - seems like overkill with the Del Pez right up the road, how many taco/mexican places can you have?!

The space between the two new hotels is basically wait and see. See the article below, BPG has the rights for another hotel - a Marriott brand, ideally that hotel would go there, but they are waiting to see if the Chase Convention Center warrants a fourth hotel. I think they probably will end up building another hotel here, as the article states, since the opening of the new Hyatt and Homewood Suites (Hilton)--the Convention Center has landed two decent sized conferences.
https://www.delawarebusinesstimes.co...e-conventions/

Taco Grande, from the old ass sign that sat on the plot for years? that's project is still alive..... My god they are better off building a Wawa or something, like you said the other taco shop is literally a few feet away.

I saw that have rights for a 4th hotel, there is a little more space on the plot in front of empty lot and the new hotel, like a store could go there, but we will see.

Also on the GIS map they seem to be adding more commercial or residential on the current riverfront across from the current office shops.

Also with the convention center and traffic growing would they have enough space to expand the blue rocks stadium and the convention center if it's needed.

[EastSideHBG]

So the 2.5 year project on Markley St. (202) in Norristown has begun and if you don't need to go this way and can avoid it I would recommend doing so, as it's an absolute mess on most days. And the Times Herald building is being demolished. Kind of sad, it was a nice looking building in a good spot:

https://www.timesherald.com/news/loc...e4e49902b.html

[Urbanthusiat]

This article came out last week:

Developer discusses plans for 279-unit mixed-use building in Ardmore

Monday night, members of the Lower Merion Planning Commission and the public had the chance to hear about the redevelopment of a 3.5-acre site along West Lancaster Avenue between Ardmore and Greenfield avenues.

Currently, the site includes car dealerships, an IHOP restaurant and an empty lot at Lancaster and Ardmore avenues. The proposal consists of 279 new apartments and new commercial spaces.

...

Under the plans submitted to the township, the nine separate properties will be consolidated as one 3.5 acre property. All remaining buildings on the site would be demolished for the new construction. The new five-story building will contain nearly 58,000 square feet of retail space and 279 apartments.

There will also be 583 parking spaces on the site. Under township codes, only 401 spaces are needed for the project.

Article doesn't say but the developer is Toll Brothers. TOD and replacing an auto-oriented use! You love to see it.

[3rd&Brown]

I've mentioned demographic shifts before, but am curious to hear people's thoughts.

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/metro.t02.htm

Every month, a few weeks after the jobs report is released, statistics on state level employment trends follow. A few weeks after the state level statistics, metropolitan area statistics are released.

Last week, metropolitan area statistics were released for December 2019.

Some interesting callouts about Pennsylvania and Philadelphia in particular.

Although the unemployment rate is up year over year for the Philadelphia MSA and Philadelphia in particular, it seems not to be because of a slow down in job growth (at 1.8 percent YOY), but because of an acceleration in the growth/size of the workforce. Civilian Labor force in PA is up 100K people YOY or 1.7%. In Philadelphia in particular, labor force is up 30K YOY or 2.8%.

In comparison to NY (state), the labor force in the same period shrunk by close to 100K people and within NYC, it was essentially flat (Dec shows a YOY decrease, Nov shows a slight YOY increase).

1. This is great news for PA and Philly in particular.
2. My guess is this is being driven by growth in the life sciences industry in and around Philly.
3. Compounding #2, I think we're starting to see regional migrants seeking lower cost locales due to changes in the SALT deduction caps. PA is arguably the lowest tax/cost state in the Acela corridor with a major city. Although all of the media attention is on people moving to places like NC, GA, the mountain west, etc...it wouldn't be surprising to me to see shifts in "in region" migration. This benefits PA for sure.
4. With this late in the decade acceleration, compounded by the fact the YOY changes in urban populations are typically under-represented/counted, my guess would be that 2020 census will show Philly has surpassed 1.6 million people, perhaps not by a small margin, and that PA surpasses 13 million people.

I've long thought of PA as being alone with IL in the very top tier of states in terms of population, GDP, etc beyond the big 4 (CA, NY, TX, FL). This could be the decade, particularly with the stagnation in IL's population growth where PA sort of breaks away from Illinois. In the next decade, if Illinois continues to shrink and if PA continues to grow, you could population in PA surpass IL by 500K+ people.

Sort of eager to see what the census turns up.

And great news for prospects of construction of new commercial buildings.

[eixample]

I have nothing to add to your post, but I am surprised that PA's labor force grew by so much year-over-year. I thought PA was growing in the 65+ segment more than anyone. Good news! (In-migration from other northeastern states would also probably be good news for Democrats, but I'll say no more about that.)

[bigfish]

Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat

This article came out last week:

Developer discusses plans for 279-unit mixed-use building in Ardmore



Article doesn't say but the developer is Toll Brothers. TOD and replacing an auto-oriented use! You love to see it.

This is really good news in my eyes. My girlfriend recently moved to and works in Silver Spring, MD. As I helped her move to her new apartment and hung out in the surrounding area I was thoroughly impressed. The DC area seems to be built very densely around the Metro lines from Silver Spring/Wheaton, Bethesda, Arlington etc. They do a very good job with TOD and I think the Philadelphia region has so much potential. Ardmore and Consohocken seem to be the two that are most on the path towards this. There are so many other areas that have the potential, what is needed is more frequency on the regional rail to have them run more like a heavy rail system. Hopefully increased density along the lines will show boost in ridership that will encourage SEPTA management to increase frequency, especially during off peak. The Norristown line needs to run at least every 30 minutes on the weekends.

[iamrobk]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

I've mentioned demographic shifts before, but am curious to hear people's thoughts.

Nice analysis, thank you for posting! I think the Philly area's reputation for being more affordable than NYC/DC/Boston (and not just in terms of taxes) also helps out a lot. Makes it much easier and less intimidating for people to move to the region.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by bigfish

This is really good news in my eyes. My girlfriend recently moved to and works in Silver Spring, MD. As I helped her move to her new apartment and hung out in the surrounding area I was thoroughly impressed. The DC area seems to be built very densely around the Metro lines from Silver Spring/Wheaton, Bethesda, Arlington etc. They do a very good job with TOD and I think the Philadelphia region has so much potential. Ardmore and Consohocken seem to be the two that are most on the path towards this. There are so many other areas that have the potential, what is needed is more frequency on the regional rail to have them run more like a heavy rail system. Hopefully increased density along the lines will show boost in ridership that will encourage SEPTA management to increase frequency, especially during off peak. The Norristown line needs to run at least every 30 minutes on the weekends.

The other big thing Ardmore has going for it is Amtrak one seat service to New York. When I need to head to NYC - and the schedule works - the convenience can't be beat. Greater frequency on that would be huge. Right now, there's a VERY early morning train and a couple of afternoon trains heading to NYC. Even a single later morning train would add to the flexibility. If I have an appointment there right after lunch, I have to take SEPTA to 30th Street first. The one seat ride only works currently if you need to be there by early morning or late afternoon/early evening.

[iheartphilly]

^^
TOD has been well established in the DC Metro Area for well over 10 years...sort of the gridlock on the Beltway, I-270, and part of I-95 below Baltimore that has forced it into its existence.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by eixample

I have nothing to add to your post, but I am surprised that PA's labor force grew by so much year-over-year. I thought PA was growing in the 65+ segment more than anyone. Good news! (In-migration from other northeastern states would also probably be good news for Democrats, but I'll say no more about that.)

Me too.

I think it is almost entirely clustered in the SE region of the state, including Harrisburg and everywhere east and the Lehigh Valley and everthing south (essentially E-SE of the I81 Corridor) but it probably points to a slow down in population loss in the western part of the state as well.

Who knows the specifics but the rate of growth for 1 year is impressive by any standard.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

I've mentioned demographic shifts before, but am curious to hear people's thoughts.

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/metro.t02.htm

Every month, a few weeks after the jobs report is released, statistics on state level employment trends follow. A few weeks after the state level statistics, metropolitan area statistics are released.

Last week, metropolitan area statistics were released for December 2019.

Some interesting callouts about Pennsylvania and Philadelphia in particular.

Although the unemployment rate is up year over year for the Philadelphia MSA and Philadelphia in particular, it seems not to be because of a slow down in job growth (at 1.8 percent YOY), but because of an acceleration in the growth/size of the workforce. Civilian Labor force in PA is up 100K people YOY or 1.7%. In Philadelphia in particular, labor force is up 30K YOY or 2.8%.

In comparison to NY (state), the labor force in the same period shrunk by close to 100K people and within NYC, it was essentially flat (Dec shows a YOY decrease, Nov shows a slight YOY increase).

1. This is great news for PA and Philly in particular.
2. My guess is this is being driven by growth in the life sciences industry in and around Philly.
3. Compounding #2, I think we're starting to see regional migrants seeking lower cost locales due to changes in the SALT deduction caps. PA is arguably the lowest tax/cost state in the Acela corridor with a major city. Although all of the media attention is on people moving to places like NC, GA, the mountain west, etc...it wouldn't be surprising to me to see shifts in "in region" migration. This benefits PA for sure.
4. With this late in the decade acceleration, compounded by the fact the YOY changes in urban populations are typically under-represented/counted, my guess would be that 2020 census will show Philly has surpassed 1.6 million people, perhaps not by a small margin, and that PA surpasses 13 million people.

I've long thought of PA as being alone with IL in the very top tier of states in terms of population, GDP, etc beyond the big 4 (CA, NY, TX, FL). This could be the decade, particularly with the stagnation in IL's population growth where PA sort of breaks away from Illinois. In the next decade, if Illinois continues to shrink and if PA continues to grow, you could population in PA surpass IL by 500K+ people.

Sort of eager to see what the census turns up.

And great news for prospects of construction of new commercial buildings.

I checked the census estimates and the July 2018 estimate for Philly is 1.584M which would be about 60k increase from 2010 and it would seem 1.6 is very probable by 2020.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

^^
TOD has been well established in the DC Metro Area for well over 10 years...sort of the gridlock on the Beltway, I-270, and part of I-95 below Baltimore that has forced it into its existence.

The geography, age and design of the DC area is VERY different from this area which explains why you don't see tons of edge cities up here lining railways. Our rail network was mostly built 100+ years ago and residential neighborhoods grew around the network. In DC metro, there are often large commercial tracts in close proximity to the suburban metro stations that are suited to high rises with big parking garages attached. Most of the land near our RR stations has been developed (mostly with single family homes) for many decades and unlike DC we have rail lines that run right through the heart of suburban residential areas as opposed to inside of the median of a 8 lane interstate. DC has a very west coast, post WW2 transit design which is heavily based on providing tons of parking near every station and building major commercial developments in the burbs around somewhat isolated stations.

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by cardeza

The geography, age and design of the DC area is VERY different from this area which explains why you don't see tons of edge cities up here lining railways. Our rail network was mostly built 100+ years ago and residential neighborhoods grew around the network. In DC metro, there are often large commercial tracts in close proximity to the suburban metro stations that are suited to high rises with big parking garages attached. Most of the land near our RR stations has been developed (mostly with single family homes) for many decades and unlike DC we have rail lines that run right through the heart of suburban residential areas as opposed to inside of the median of a 8 lane interstate. DC has a very west coast, post WW2 transit design which is heavily based on providing tons of parking near every station and building major commercial developments in the burbs around somewhat isolated stations.

Are you referring to the Main Line along Rt. 30. I can certainly see that's true. Other significant rail lines in Philly or the suburbs?

For DC metro, outside of DC, yep I can say that's the case since I've lived down there for 5 years and have made that observation.

But, for DC, Union Station in particular, I noticed TOD is alive and well there with more recent construction projects when I took the Amtrak a while back.