Why is Manitoba not more involved with Western Canada

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by Authentic_City

Different kettle of fish in the Maritimes. Ontario is a better comparator on many dimensions, much more so than the three western provinces.

I'd agree in a lot of respects. But it's only recently that Ontario started receiving equalization payments as the Canadian dollar started really hammering the manufacturing sector. If the dollar stays flat against the USD, they could pick up relatively quickly.

Ontario had may as well be three provinces at this point. I can't imagine more disparity in any one province than the differences between Thunder Bay, North Bay, and Toronto. How do you even effectively govern that province with so many differing and conflicting interests? At least Manitoba is just varying degrees of 'poor'. Ontario has both the hottest economies and the dregs of the country. I don't envy Kathleen Wynne.

[1ajs]

our dallor is worth 87cents us right now

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Riverman

Manitoba has been shunned from this group because they are not on the same page on literally anything.

The three western provinces are very concerned with growing commerce but that is not a priority for Manitoba.

C'mon Riverman look at how he speNDP has grown the government and the payrolls of provincial crown corporations, the utopian dream of the speNDP is to have everyone in Manitoba working for the government!

Ask anyone working for Manitoba Hydro how bloated it has become with an unnecessary out of control free for all of management hires upon management hires....the number of employees at mother hydro with an average annual salary over $100K would shock most people!

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

our dallor is worth 87cents us right now

Right. That's good news where Ontario manufacturing is concerned...

[VANRIDERFAN]

Ask any Manitoban west of Headingly if they identify more with SK/AB/BC or more with Ontario and the answer is the west 99 times out of 100.

[biguc]

I thought Manitoba's bureaucracy was lumbering and stupid until I briefly had to deal with Ontario's. I don't know how anyone can accomplish anything in that province.

[Cyro]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

Right. That's good news where Ontario manufacturing is concerned...

Indeed, as it it is fantastic news for Manitoba's heavy reliance on it's manufacturing sector to our #1 Export location , the US.

[Arts]

Originally Posted by drew

^ I don't think Arts is from Manitoba.

Born in the peg, still have many relatives there. Moved to Van. Island as an early teen, went to Uni in the lower mainland, moved to SK 15 years ago, started career here had family and been here since, living in both Saskatoon and Regina. So I think I have a fair perspective to base my opinion on...

What I can say about Manitoba, is that it has always been slow growth and stable. Winnipeg may not be an international city, but it is a very established and interesting place. There is a diverse, albeit quiet economy there. When I visit my relatives there I am always amazed at the level and quality of municipal services (compared to SK). MB is not the "wild west" that SK and AB are.

The only reason this thread exists is because of Alberta oil (and a little in SK and a couple in the far corners of MB and BC). BC has sea ports, MB has one remote sea port. Pipeline to the US is one aspect, the bigger aspect is China, and how they will access our natural resources.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by Arts

Born in the peg, still have many relatives there. Moved to Van. Island as an early teen, went to Uni in the lower mainland, moved to SK 15 years ago, started career here had family and been here since, living in both Saskatoon and Regina. So I think I have a fair perspective to base my opinion on...

What I can say about Manitoba, is that it has always been slow growth and stable. Winnipeg may not be an international city, but it is a very established and interesting place. There is a diverse, albeit quiet economy there. When I visit my relatives there I am always amazed at the level and quality of municipal services (compared to SK). MB is not the "wild west" that SK and AB are.

The only reason this thread exists is because of Alberta oil (and a little in SK and a couple in the far corners of MB and BC). BC has sea ports, MB has one remote sea port. Pipeline to the US is one aspect, the bigger aspect is China, and how they will access our natural resources.

Care to expand on that comment? I'm just curious on what you base your reasoning on.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Once again, where was Manitoba?

http://regina.ctvnews.ca/western-pre...tion-1.2088558

There is no physical border between Manitoba and the rest of Western Canada, just a mental one. And this attitude is rooted in the NDP in Winnipeg.

[Bdog]

Personally, I think we're starting to see the beginning of a shift in Manitoba politics. It's clear from the events over the past few months (e.g. Bowman being elected, NDP caucus implosion) that people are fed up with the "old guard", and that change is coming.

I can't predict how Bowman will do as mayor (given his limited power, meager budget, and overwhelming issues the city faces), but it's clear Winnipeggers wanted change. Similarly, I don't think Pallister is some knight in shining armour, or necessarily the answer to what ails Manitoba. However, barring some complete collapse, he will be our premier within the next 18 months.

It's great to see that our neighbours to the west take such an avid interest in the well-being of our province. If it is indeed genuine concern, and not some sort of thinly-veiled schadenfreude like it often seems, they'll be happy to follow those changes over the coming months and years.

[Cyro]

Tweaking Thread Tiltle:

Why does Saskatchewan, Alberta and BC choose not to become more involved with the Province of Manitoba?

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by Bdog

Personally, I think we're starting to see the beginning of a shift in Manitoba politics. It's clear from the events over the past few months (e.g. Bowman being elected, NDP caucus implosion) that people are fed up with the "old guard", and that change is coming.

I can't predict how Bowman will do as mayor (given his limited power, meager budget, and overwhelming issues the city faces), but it's clear Winnipeggers wanted change. Similarly, I don't think Pallister is some knight in shining armour, or necessarily the answer to what ails Manitoba. However, barring some complete collapse, he will be our premier within the next 18 months.

It's great to see that our neighbours to the west take such an avid interest in the well-being of our province. If it is indeed genuine concern, and not some sort of thinly-veiled schadenfreude like it often seems, they'll be happy to follow those changes over the coming months and years.

Good comments. I'm not an outsider looking in. I am from Western Manitoba and a majority of my family still live and work there. So I have a vested interest in seeing my old home province prosper.

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by Cyro

Tweaking Thread Tiltle:

Why does Saskatchewan, Alberta and BC choose not to become more involved with the Province of Manitoba?

That's the thing. Manitoba in relation to the rest of Canada, has been quiet in a sense. From what I can see, it's clear that most of Manitoba want change, but the big question is how can we change?

I haven't found a clear explanation why the Manitoba Liberals are playing "third fiddle" in this province. Can anybody explain why? What made them being the "fringe" party in Manitoba? Call me naive, but to me, they seem to be the most logical choice if one does not like Pallister, but do NOT want the NDP to be in power anymore. I'd be happy if we have a minority PC or Liberal government. A longshot, but a Liberal minority is an extremely longshot.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

Care to expand on that comment? I'm just curious on what you base your reasoning on.

It's just one thing, but snow-clearing in Winnipeg is considerably better than in places like Regina and Saskatoon. I'm sure he can name more when he gets a chance.

[mattpa]

the problem with mb is it doesnt focus on anything sask shared with us about the oil and pot ash in south western manitoba and mb drilled a few wells yet on potash theyt will look to the future christ in the future we might not use it as much as now make money toward the future or till you can the way i see it

[Arts]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

It's just one thing, but snow-clearing in Winnipeg is considerably better than in places like Regina and Saskatoon. I'm sure he can name more when he gets a chance.

Snow clearing was the first I noticed - we are told in Regina and Saskatoon that such levels of service would drive up taxes to extremely high levels, yet my relatives have always paid much lower municipal taxes. The city even clears the sidewalks there?! (I remember bumper shining on the small skid steers they used to use when I was a kid).

The roads are generally in far better condition there, probably because a lot of them are made of concrete instead of just thin membrane. I don't think its as cost effective today as when they were built a half a century ago, so I don't expect roads will be concrete here except the few they install at busy intersections where traffic closures are problematic. I think you even have traffic markings on most roads there (though I'll admit in the past two years S'toon has done a really good job at applying these here).

I'm not sure if service has regressed much in the past 10 years in Winnipeg, but I also noted that garbage collection was done every week even in winter? They also had recycling collection a decade before it was offered in Saskatoon.

I can't really comment about parks, police and fire services there, as I really don't have much to compare with - I suspect the city hires a lot more lifeguards there. If fire response time is targetted better than four minutes there then you are ahead of us. Police services are probably the same too.

IIRC, you also pay less for water, sewer and electricity, but I haven't tried to compare rates or levels of service (outages, main breaks etc) - I do know that for a long time both NDP and SP Saskatchewan governments have touted much cheaper utilities here, but when I compared to my aunts, uncles, cousins that all live there I am skeptical of the claim made here. And as for the cost of living, if you didn't buy real estate here when it was cheap (pre-2007) then I think you are way farther ahead in MB - the boom does nothing to help feed your kids, especially when the city "raises taxes to pay for new infrastructure" to service all the new developments.

I also suspect transit is actually a useable service there? My mom was a SAHM and never even had a drivers license until I was a teenager, we got around on bus just fine there, has transit service regressed? In S'toon fare is expensive for the level of service.

Just my rant, and my perception is probably becoming obsolete, comparing the situation here now, to there from before. I just don't think its a bad thing at all for Winnipeg to not be lumped in with Calgary or Vancouver or other boom towns - its a totally different vibe there, reminds me much more of established places like Montreal, Quebec City or Halifax.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by Arts

Snow clearing was the first I noticed - we are told in Regina and Saskatoon that such levels of service would drive up taxes to extremely high levels, yet my relatives have always paid much lower municipal taxes. The city even clears the sidewalks there?! (I remember bumper shining on the small skid steers they used to use when I was a kid).

The roads are generally in far better condition there, probably because a lot of them are made of concrete instead of just thin membrane. I don't think its as cost effective today as when they were built a half a century ago, so I don't expect roads will be concrete here except the few they install at busy intersections where traffic closures are problematic. I think you even have traffic markings on most roads there (though I'll admit in the past two years S'toon has done a really good job at applying these here).

I'm not sure if service has regressed much in the past 10 years in Winnipeg, but I also noted that garbage collection was done every week even in winter? They also had recycling collection a decade before it was offered in Saskatoon.

I can't really comment about parks, police and fire services there, as I really don't have much to compare with - I suspect the city hires a lot more lifeguards there. If fire response time is targetted better than four minutes there then you are ahead of us. Police services are probably the same too.

IIRC, you also pay less for water, sewer and electricity, but I haven't tried to compare rates or levels of service (outages, main breaks etc) - I do know that for a long time both NDP and SP Saskatchewan governments have touted much cheaper utilities here, but when I compared to my aunts, uncles, cousins that all live there I am skeptical of the claim made here. And as for the cost of living, if you didn't buy real estate here when it was cheap (pre-2007) then I think you are way farther ahead in MB - the boom does nothing to help feed your kids, especially when the city "raises taxes to pay for new infrastructure" to service all the new developments.

I also suspect transit is actually a useable service there? My mom was a SAHM and never even had a drivers license until I was a teenager, we got around on bus just fine there, has transit service regressed? In S'toon fare is expensive for the level of service.

Just my rant, and my perception is probably becoming obsolete, comparing the situation here now, to there from before. I just don't think its a bad thing at all for Winnipeg to not be lumped in with Calgary or Vancouver or other boom towns - its a totally different vibe there, reminds me much more of established places like Montreal, Quebec City or Halifax.

That is all well and good. Every city has to prioritize wants and needs. I just find that it is very short sighted for the Winnipeg based Manitoban government to cut itself off from its region due to political differences.

[drew]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

That is all well and good. Every city has to prioritize wants and needs. I just find that it is very short sighted for the Winnipeg based Manitoban government to cut itself off from its region due to political differences.

Is the cutoff between MB and the rest of Western Canada simply politics?

I personally think no, and there are a lot more factors at play. Consider the economies of MB compared to AB and SK. Save for agriculture, there aren't a great deal of similarities there. Then BC is a whole different animal all together.

Personally I don't see how MB can get majorly intertwined in the resource buoyed economies of SK and AB and hope to offer anything reasonable in return.

Even just infrastructure. MB's long term strategic planning seems to amount to "call us when you plan on twinning a highway that crosses our border. We will twin our last (comically short) remaining length just fast enough to beat you to it".

[Cyro]

Originally Posted by drew

,

Personally I don't see how MB can get majorly intertwined in the resource buoyed economies of SK and AB and hope to offer anything reasonable in return.

There is some talk of the these 2 provinces wanting to Import Manitoba generated electricity. How far along in planning I'm honestly not sure although Sask, did sign a minor agreement to import $100 Million form MB recently. Small potatoes but something thier apparently willing to go out of province for.