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Old Posted Sep 4, 2007, 7:04 PM
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Economic corridor: Saskatoon and Regina rail link

Economic corridor touted
Councillor supports having rail link operate between Saskatoon, Regina


Darren Bernhardt, The StarPhoenix
Published: Tuesday, September 04, 2007

A rail link between Saskatoon and Regina could foster a lucrative economic corridor, but those cities have to take action before CN abandons a portion of the existing line, states a report going to city council tonight.

"These two cities are not unlike Calgary and Edmonton, which have recognized the economic corridor between them and are considering improvements to the rail links, including the potential of a rapid passenger link," states the report to Saskatoon councillors.

"Saskatoon and Regina, though not as large, will in the future, through their own growth, develop and support (their own) economic corridor.

"A rail connection . . . could indeed benefit the development of the corridor."

The idea was first raised in early June by Coun. Charlie Clark, who learned CN had applied to abandon the line between Regina and Craik.

He asked administration to check on the status of the line and the potential impact it could have on the future transportation strategy for Saskatoon and the surrounding region, "as this is the only direct rail corridor connecting the two main urban centres of the province.

"And given that rail transportation is one of the most efficient forms of travel in terms of greenhouse gas emissions" it makes sense to protect and pursue it, he said in an interview Sunday.

City administration is requesting council give it the go-ahead to contact the City of Regina to develop a strategy on the potential line abandonment by CN.

"While (forming the corridor) may not be feasible tomorrow, we should at least protect those lines for down the road," said Clark. "Once any part of that chain is broken, it becomes less feasible to create that corridor."

According to the report from administration, there are currently no CN or VIA trains that travel between the two cities. CN operates one freight train, once per week, between Saskatoon and Davidson to service grain elevators.

Since 2001, the railway has not operated freight trains between Davidson and Regina.

"While this decision (to decommission the line) may be understandable at this point in time, there may be longer-term consequences for both Saskatoon and Regina," the report states.

"It could benefit both (cities) to ensure that the corridor is not lost permanently. Therefore, we are recommending that the two cities voice their concerns."

Clark is not certain how the process would work, but believes the provincial government would be "an essential player in purchasing or taking over control of the line."

"As gas prices continue to climb and we keep with our recently announced strategy to reduce greenhouse gases, we have to look at more efficient ways to get around," he said.

Much travel between Saskatoon and Regina already exists and it will only grow heavier as the cities get bigger, he said, noting the Roughrider fans who make the trek to Regina for games like the Labour Day Classic "and all the Rolling Stone" concert-goers.

dbernhardt@sp.canwest.com

**************

While it makes sense to secure future possibilities, one significant difference between the Calgary/Edmonton corridor and the Saskatoon/Regina corridor is the population and towns between Saskatoon and Regina are few and offer little in terms of employment as compared to the Alberta corridor. I suppose this could change and see Davidson grow into a small Red Deer, but I am doubtful such an increase in population and economic activity would occur in my lifetime.

Regardless of current realities, future possibilities must be considered.
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  #2  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2007, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SASKFTW View Post
Economic corridor touted
Councillor supports having rail link operate between Saskatoon, Regina


Darren Bernhardt, The StarPhoenix
Published: Tuesday, September 04, 2007

A rail link between Saskatoon and Regina could foster a lucrative economic corridor, but those cities have to take action before CN abandons a portion of the existing line, states a report going to city council tonight.

"These two cities are not unlike Calgary and Edmonton, which have recognized the economic corridor between them and are considering improvements to the rail links, including the potential of a rapid passenger link," states the report to Saskatoon councillors.

"Saskatoon and Regina, though not as large, will in the future, through their own growth, develop and support (their own) economic corridor.

"A rail connection . . . could indeed benefit the development of the corridor."

The idea was first raised in early June by Coun. Charlie Clark, who learned CN had applied to abandon the line between Regina and Craik.

He asked administration to check on the status of the line and the potential impact it could have on the future transportation strategy for Saskatoon and the surrounding region, "as this is the only direct rail corridor connecting the two main urban centres of the province.

"And given that rail transportation is one of the most efficient forms of travel in terms of greenhouse gas emissions" it makes sense to protect and pursue it, he said in an interview Sunday.

City administration is requesting council give it the go-ahead to contact the City of Regina to develop a strategy on the potential line abandonment by CN.

"While (forming the corridor) may not be feasible tomorrow, we should at least protect those lines for down the road," said Clark. "Once any part of that chain is broken, it becomes less feasible to create that corridor."

According to the report from administration, there are currently no CN or VIA trains that travel between the two cities. CN operates one freight train, once per week, between Saskatoon and Davidson to service grain elevators.

Since 2001, the railway has not operated freight trains between Davidson and Regina.

"While this decision (to decommission the line) may be understandable at this point in time, there may be longer-term consequences for both Saskatoon and Regina," the report states.

"It could benefit both (cities) to ensure that the corridor is not lost permanently. Therefore, we are recommending that the two cities voice their concerns."

Clark is not certain how the process would work, but believes the provincial government would be "an essential player in purchasing or taking over control of the line."

"As gas prices continue to climb and we keep with our recently announced strategy to reduce greenhouse gases, we have to look at more efficient ways to get around," he said.

Much travel between Saskatoon and Regina already exists and it will only grow heavier as the cities get bigger, he said, noting the Roughrider fans who make the trek to Regina for games like the Labour Day Classic "and all the Rolling Stone" concert-goers.

dbernhardt@sp.canwest.com

**************

While it makes sense to secure future possibilities, one significant difference between the Calgary/Edmonton corridor and the Saskatoon/Regina corridor is the population and towns between Saskatoon and Regina are few and offer little in terms of employment as compared to the Alberta corridor. I suppose this could change and see Davidson grow into a small Red Deer, but I am doubtful such an increase in population and economic activity would occur in my lifetime.

Regardless of current realities, future possibilities must be considered
.
It's hard to say. Most of the towns in Saskatchewan which have those types of career opportunities are more on the perimeter of the province (if that makes sense?), but maybe a rail link such as the one suggested would help to spur growth in the communities between Regina and Saskatoon? A town like Craik has a TON of potential. I think their Eco-Village is a prime example of the motivation that the town has to become something better and to improve. The towns of Saskatchewan may not necessarily be booming in the way that Alberta towns are but they are full of hard working people who would love nothing more than to see their towns thrive. Maybe a rail link would actually be helpful?
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  #3  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2007, 11:11 PM
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A bit off topic, but Craik should be a model for some of these struggling rural communities. People like to unfairly blame the NDP, but the onus should be on the residents themselves to come up with sustainable and practical ways to keep their towns relevant. Craik, Gravelbourg, Eastend, Rouleau, etc have developed unique economies to keep their communities alive and well.
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  #4  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2007, 4:59 PM
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^How big are those communities? The only name I recognize is Eastend - and that's only because I'm still puzzled as to why it's named as such being in the west of Sask :-)

What is the drive time between Saskatoon and Regina? Any growing communities in between the two (possibly the ones mentioned above?).

I think the debate is still out there for the Calgary-Edm corridor, and with Red Deer area pushing 150-200k people (the corridor I think is close to 400k total), it is considerably more people to support it.

However, it sounds like the option above would be much cheaper than what AB is hoping for???
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  #5  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2007, 6:00 PM
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It's referred to as Eastend because it's at the east end of the Cypress Hills. At least that's what I was taught in class!

Rouleau aka Dog River is just south of Regina and is home to the tv show Corner Gas. It has developed a small tourism industry based off of the show.

Gravelbourg is approx. an hours drive from Moose Jaw. It is a French community with some neat stores and a stunning Cathedral. It has developed a tourism industry. I took my first trip out there this summer and there were tourists from Quebec, New Brunswick and MInnesota wandering the streets.

Craik is between Regina and Saskatoon on highway number 11. It has developed a "green" economy with things such as the eco-centre and a Hemp facility is set to break ground in the near future.

Regina to Saskatoon is 2 hours and 15 minutes or so. The communities in between are pretty stagnant. The largest is Davidson which is about 1000 people. Craik has been doing well for itself in recent years, Dundurn has some sort of military operation, Lumsden is alive and well but mostly as a bedroom community for Regina, other than that though you have a handful of dwindling small towns.
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  #6  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2007, 6:07 PM
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It's about 2.5 hours for the drive between Regina and Saskatoon.

Craik is hardly the model of viability right now. It's numbers have gone down from 1996 to 2001 to 2006 and the RM hasn't fared much better.

The stretch of towns between Regina and Saskatoon are petty much all dying. Chamberlain posted an interesting gain, but that might be due to boundaries instead of anything else and they are the only town that has said no to twinning the highway and moving it outside of town. It's sad, but there aren't many success stories for small towns in Saskatchewan.

Some population statistics for the towns between Regina and Saskatoon taken from Statistics Canada's community profiles (1996-2001 and 2001-2006) (first column is percentage between 2006 and 1996, second column is percentage between 2006 and 2001):



There's a reason CN and CP are abandoning rail lines in Saskatchewan. I think passenger service between Regina and Saskatoon would be great, but I doubt it would do anything to bolster the corridor. The only RMs in the corridor that seem to be faring reasonably well are the ones directly South of Saskatoon and that's probably due to suburban development.

It's also too bad that Regina doesn't have a passenger terminal (now a acasino) since it's no longer serviced by VIA. Here's the list of Saskatchewan municipalities serviced by VIA:

Biggar, Canora, Endeavour, Hudson Bay, Kamsack, Melville, Mikado, Reserve, Saskatoon, Sturgis, Togo, Unity, Veregin, Watrous

Thanks VIA. Want to see Canada by train? You won't be seeing all the provincial capitals, but that's just me being bitter.
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  #7  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2007, 6:10 PM
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At least Craik is trying, but so far it hasn't seen any payoff.
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  #8  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2007, 8:32 PM
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Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes View Post
Chamberlain posted an interesting gain, but that might be due to boundaries instead of anything else and they are the only town that has said no to twinning the highway and moving it outside of town.

That stretch of highway is frekin annoying. Just twin the damn thing so traffic can move "relatively" freely between the two cities.
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  #9  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2007, 8:46 PM
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Originally Posted by IntotheWest View Post

I think the debate is still out there for the Calgary-Edm corridor

WTF, u guys are still debating about a rapid transit 300 km long between two cities just over 1 million (edmonton being 730,372 (2006) with metro of 1 mil)


im not even getting into two towns 250 km away trying to twin themselves
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  #10  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2008, 3:08 AM
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Bump for rail talk!

Who believes our provincial government and respective city councils are moving forward with this?

I haven't heard any mention of this lately, so perhaps passenger rail is not a priority?

I'd like to find some traffic count data between Saskatoon and Regina, as well as other smaller cities and towns.

Rail (not necessarily high speed) between Prince Albert-Saskatoon-Regina-Moose Jaw???
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  #11  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2009, 5:21 PM
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Rail Link Between Saskatoon and Regina Proposed
Friday, 06 March 2009

The Mayor of Saskatoon would like to see the return of passenger rail service between Saskatoon and Regina.

Don Atchison hopes that Ottawa and the province get behind the idea.

Atchison says growth in population in the two centres will necessitate a rail link.

He also supports efforts to save the tracks that run between the two cities, because once they're abandoned, they just don't come back.

Passenger rail service between Regina and Saskatoon was discontinued in the early 1980's.

Source
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  #12  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2009, 7:10 PM
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Wouldn't it be a lot cheaper and feasible to take a bus between the two centres, the infrastructure called a road is already in place!
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  #13  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2009, 7:55 PM
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Sounds like the rails are already there too. I wouldn't be surprised if pretty empty aswell, since how much interchange is there between the CN and CP mainlines?

For the cost of two Talents - ~$8 million could have a pretty robust system if the line is pretty empty right now.
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  #14  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2009, 8:18 PM
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Is the highway between Regina and Saskatoon a full-fledged freeway yet? If not, how difficult would that be to upgrade it?
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Old Posted Mar 6, 2009, 8:32 PM
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i would prefer to see air canada jazz free up some Bombardier Jets or Dash 8's so we could have a respectable air link between yqr and yxe.
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  #16  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2009, 9:03 PM
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Is the highway between Regina and Saskatoon a full-fledged freeway yet? If not, how difficult would that be to upgrade it?
It's double-lane divided the whole way except for a few kilometres that pass through the village of Chamberlain.
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Old Posted Mar 7, 2009, 1:11 AM
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Sounds like the rails are already there too. I wouldn't be surprised if pretty empty aswell, since how much interchange is there between the CN and CP mainlines?

For the cost of two Talents - ~$8 million could have a pretty robust system if the line is pretty empty right now.
That's a good question, and unfortunately, I can't say for certain.

But, looking at Google maps gives me the impression CN has their line running from their southwest yards across the river, travels east for a couple kilometres and heads south towards Regina (parallel to Hwy 11). Whereas CP has their yards in the northeast, and their mainline travels southeast along the Yellowhead (to Winnipeg). I am not sure if CP even has their own line to Regina.
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Old Posted Mar 7, 2009, 1:29 AM
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i would prefer to see air canada jazz free up some Bombardier Jets or Dash 8's so we could have a respectable air link between yqr and yxe.
What is the total trip time terminal to terminal (wait times, other BS)?

I have yet to travel by train, or plane, so I can't speak from personal experience.

I think passenger rail could be competitive with air, eventually (with sufficient increase in demand). Currently, for the number of charter flights between our two cities, passenger rail service would be severely underutilized.

Total inbound/outbound passengers Saskatoon-Regina was 4110 (1998 Source).

At most that number has doubled, but, even that is unlikely.

For a better understanding of how much demand passenger rail could expect, we would need vehicle/passenger counts for Hwy 11.
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Old Posted Mar 7, 2009, 2:00 AM
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I don't think a train is a viable economic stimuls between the two cities, yet. Canadian mentality is that of the road and vehicel, people here don't like travelling by train unless they have some sort of incentive, and lets face it, the train developed between Saskatoon and Regina certainly wouldn't be any HSR like Europes or Asias, it would be an old passenger train of via or something similar. As well what gains would be made by travelling by train besides not having to take your vehicle? The region still needs to experience continual economic growthi which will hopefully stimulate population growth, but I doubt the population will come.

I sat in on a presentation about the SK economy and how it is affecting rural population, and well the future looks pretty bleak for communities further then 100km from a major centre. SO the possibility of any sort of rural revival is slim and would be VERY difficult to engage b/c of the sheer economics and b/c of the way the future economy is headed (more technology based, which usually only occurs in urban centres).

On the other hand I can see Saskatoon-Regina getting a train over Calgary-Edmonton if we have continual population growth because the distance between the two cities is about 100 km shorter and rail lines are already in place, they just need to be upgraded. Maybe once each centre has established some sort of LRT within its city and people develop a liking to the idea of mass transit, and then the cities create incentives for other people to work and play in each city, then MAYBE a train will be built.

Personally I feel the lines should be secured b/c this will probably foster rural population growth within this region b/c of the future easy access to either centre, as well it will stimulate davidson to grow a bit more rapidly. But I don't think we will be seeing any development of this magnitude before Saskatoon and Regina establish some sort of BRT system or LRT system.
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Old Posted Jul 15, 2009, 4:23 AM
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Reflecting on the Calgary-Edmonton HSR proposal.

The province would be foolish to not purchase the right-of-way (I suspect they will).
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Right off the top, the price tag is enough to make one gag.

At the best guess at the top end, if Alberta wants to build an environmentally friendly, high-speed, state-of-the-art train to connect Edmonton to Calgary -- each with a population in excess of one million people -- with a quick stop in Red Deer (90,000), it will cost up to $20 billion to secure the right-of-way, buy the trains and build the link. Even if the province opts for the cheapest solution, one that would have a diesel train chugging along at a respectable 125 km/h, making the 300-kilometre trip in about the same length of time it takes the average driver today, it would cost $3 billion just to get started.

Considering the geographic similarities to Saskatchewan, with its two major cities 250 kilometres apart, it's worth remembering how costly this connection would be.

According to consultants who prepared a report laying out four options for the Alberta government, the cheaper the solution chosen, the less it will be used. Bill Cruikshanks, CEO of Alberta High-Speed Rail, the company that would like to run the trains, says the best option would be to build a $3.5-billion, 300-km/h, electric overhead train.

Consultants estimate half of the 600,000 air travellers and one-third of the 300,000 bus travellers would switch, but only five per cent of the 9.1 million drivers would opt for the high-speed, environmental alternative. It is hard to imagine, however, how a private-sector company could make a profit in such a marketplace.

There may be reasons, other than profit, for the province to consider such a costly piece of infrastructure. Europeans and Asians like high-speed trains to move people efficiently from one place to another, enhancing their productivity and reducing their environmental footprint, compared to commuting by car.

Alberta's two largest cities already constitute a significant investment in human capital. They each have a major university, state-of-the-art health-care facilities, ample cultural amenities, two professional sports teams and industrial clusters that make them the envy of much of the developed world.

In theory, a high-speed link between the two centres could make them even more efficient in terms of their ability to tap into their combined intellectual capacities. Connectivity and innovation, after all, are considered to be the new advantage when it comes to economic growth -- more important that waterways, manufacturing capacity or resources.

But the demographics and geography that assist high-cost, high-speed commuter links in Europe, Asia and even along the Pacific and Atlantic corridors in America don't exist on the Canadian Prairies.

It's not impossible to imagine a scenario where high gas prices, carbon caps, taxes and improved technology could make a $3.5-billion -- or even a $20-billion -- investment in a high-speed train practical, but that scenario is extremely speculative in 2009.

It's worth remembering, too, that if the train gets more cars off the road in order to pump less carbon into the atmosphere, this would require the system to be cheaper and more convenient than taking the car and greener than burning gasoline.

As things now stand, Alberta -- like Saskatchewan -- gets most of its electricity from coal, so to make the environmental argument one would have to include in the cost of the proposal that of green electricity production. A nuclear reactor, which over its life cycle would be the most reliable, economic and green of the options, would add billions to the cost.

Other green energy projects would make the high cost even higher, particularly if they required the kind of additional infrastructure that wind- or solar-generation would demand in order to have the power running at all times.

Saskatchewan would present a different scenario, with alternate advantages and challenges.

On the one hand, Saskatchewan isn't likely for the foreseeable future to have even one city of a million, much less two that would deliver the 10-million passenger trips that now take place between these Albertan cities.

But a high-speed train in Saskatchewan, where Regina and Saskatoon are relatively closer than the Alberta cities, could make the commute less than an hour, giving the province, in effect, the advantages of one large city. This could enhance the cultural and professional sports opportunities for both cities.

And the right-of-way still exists in Saskatchewan -- something the province could work on securing, then leasing back to the users, just in case the day comes when this does make sense.

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