HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Manitoba & Saskatchewan


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2014, 1:13 AM
njaohnt njaohnt is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 126
Aerobus Possiblility in Winnipeg

Whenever the city talks about RT, it's always BRT, or LRT. But there are many other options. Aerobus seems like a pretty good option, it is cheap, and has the capacity of LRT. $15-30 million per mi ($9-18 million per km).

How about a Route 90 line so that people who don't want to deal with the traffic can still live in Waverly West, and work in Centreport.

www.aerobus.com
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2014, 5:40 AM
armorand93's Avatar
armorand93 armorand93 is offline
Transit Nerd
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Calgary (former Winnipegger)
Posts: 2,707
I thought that read "AIRBUS possibility in Winnipeg" and nearly fainted... if we ever got an Airbus anything, I think our economy would explode.

Anyways, that does sound like a neat option! Would it work in winter, though?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2014, 7:38 AM
scryer scryer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,927
Well this is definitely thinking outside of the box. I like it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2014, 8:13 PM
njaohnt njaohnt is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by armorand93 View Post
I thought that read "AIRBUS possibility in Winnipeg" and nearly fainted... if we ever got an Airbus anything, I think our economy would explode.
Yes, a new Airbus factory... a step up from landing gear doors!
Quote:

Anyways, that does sound like a neat option! Would it work in winter, though?
Yes, it will work in winter. They did it in Quebec, so it should work here.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2014, 2:09 PM
Chorduroy's Avatar
Chorduroy Chorduroy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: YQR
Posts: 174
This intrigues me, but that website's "In the News" link has an article from 2007. Doesn't seem very active. Are they just bad at updating their site? Any recent installations?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2014, 2:22 PM
cheswick's Avatar
cheswick cheswick is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: South Kildonan
Posts: 2,756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chorduroy View Post
This intrigues me, but that website's "In the News" link has an article from 2007. Doesn't seem very active. Are they just bad at updating their site? Any recent installations?
The aesthetics of the website look about 7 years old too.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2014, 2:54 PM
esquire's Avatar
esquire esquire is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 37,483
The fact that Aerobus appears to have been around since the 70s and the installations are limited to some parks and resorts doesn't inspire much confidence.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2014, 4:54 PM
Riverman's Avatar
Riverman Riverman is offline
Fossil fuel & rubber
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ontario's feel good town
Posts: 4,023
Quote:
Originally Posted by njaohnt View Post
How about a Route 90 line so that people who don't want to deal with the traffic can still live in Waverly West, and work in Centreport.
No one works in Centreport. It consists of a road and farm fields. There is nowhere there to work.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2014, 8:06 PM
Pegoise Pegoise is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 25
This sounds like a company the City was talking to just before they started the SW Transitway - Glen Laubenstein wanted to look at something different. It almost stalled the busway (again)

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/loc...y_studied.html
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2014, 4:00 PM
rkspec rkspec is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 745
There were talks of a cable car setup to transport from UofM to St.Vital mall some years ago.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...river-1.725059
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #11  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2014, 6:06 PM
Flatland Metropolis's Avatar
Flatland Metropolis Flatland Metropolis is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: East Kildonan, Winnipeg
Posts: 264
Aerobus projects have rarely been implemented. Given resistance to change it seems unlikely to occur in Winnipeg, especially without major precedent.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2014, 9:53 PM
dennis dennis is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 1,277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatland Metropolis View Post
Aerobus projects have rarely been implemented. Given resistance to change it seems unlikely to occur in Winnipeg, especially without major precedent.
I saw a show where a A South American city uses them for public transport.

Skypods: Are gondolas the next big thing in urban transport?

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/09/13/bu...ban-transport/
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2014, 10:42 PM
Arts Arts is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 579
Quote:
Originally Posted by dennis View Post
I saw a show where a A South American city uses them for public transport.

Skypods: Are gondolas the next big thing in urban transport?

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/09/13/bu...ban-transport/
Gondolas are an effective form of transportation in places with steep inclines like ski hills and vast cities that spawl up mountainsides. What remains to be determined is if they are effective in flatlands. Also, these "Aerobuses" aren't cable cars, the support cable/structure is fixed and these traverse along them, rather than the cable itself being driven. I think each presents different engineering challenges.

Does anyone know if there are other more modern installations of something more similar to the Aerobus design?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2014, 7:25 AM
scryer scryer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,927
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arts View Post
Gondolas are an effective form of transportation in places with steep inclines like ski hills and vast cities that spawl up mountainsides. What remains to be determined is if they are effective in flatlands. Also, these "Aerobuses" aren't cable cars, the support cable/structure is fixed and these traverse along them, rather than the cable itself being driven. I think each presents different engineering challenges.

Does anyone know if there are other more modern installations of something more similar to the Aerobus design?
I think that Rio de Janeiro has some sort of gondola system going through its favelas as the try to gentrify them..? Other than that, I don't think anything super cutting edge is in the works around the world.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2014, 1:05 PM
Only The Lonely..'s Avatar
Only The Lonely.. Only The Lonely.. is offline
Portage & Main 50 below
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 4,871
The business case for it looks sound.

-uses existing right of ways
-uses cable instead of steel
-fewer support columns needed
-in Manitoba at least, it could be powered by cheap electricity.

I wonder why this type of technology isn't more common in cities?
__________________
WINNIPEG: Home of Canada's first skyscraper!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2014, 7:33 PM
cheswick's Avatar
cheswick cheswick is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: South Kildonan
Posts: 2,756
How fast do they go?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2014, 7:47 PM
Cyro's Avatar
Cyro Cyro is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,197
^ Aerobus Problems

Aerobus, however, was designed primarily as an urban "people mover," so it doesn't meet all our requirements for an interurban transportation system.

One problem is that the track is allowed to bow upwards between supports when there is no car running on it. This leads to significant vertical distortion of the track as the car passes; the rate at which this can be allowed to happen limits the permissible speed of the car. This problem can be solved by replacing the simple suspension system with a two-way cable truss (see Irvine, 1981) which essentially preloads the suspension system and keeps the track straight whether loaded or unloaded.

Another problem is curves: Aerobus uses a rigid rail for changes in direction. This is expensive structurally and economically and favors small-radius curves which impose speed limits and difficulties with the car's suspension. What is needed is a method of supporting gradual curves with cables alone, just like the straightaways, along with a track design that allows the cars to "bank" or lean into the curve - in other words, a track that is torsionally soft without sacrifice of tensile strength. This problem has not yet been solved, but is probably solvable and is under study.

http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Aerial_Ropeways

You can list all the positives for it's use, but problems exist that have not been solved therefore, no one will use the system in any large scale as a reliable transportation option. Will this change in the future possibly, until then it's hasn't been proven to be a reliable or viable option.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #18  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2014, 2:25 PM
njaohnt njaohnt is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
How fast do they go?
80 kph
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #19  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2014, 2:29 PM
njaohnt njaohnt is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro View Post
^ Aerobus Problems

Aerobus, however, was designed primarily as an urban "people mover," so it doesn't meet all our requirements for an interurban transportation system.

One problem is that the track is allowed to bow upwards between supports when there is no car running on it. This leads to significant vertical distortion of the track as the car passes; the rate at which this can be allowed to happen limits the permissible speed of the car. This problem can be solved by replacing the simple suspension system with a two-way cable truss (see Irvine, 1981) which essentially preloads the suspension system and keeps the track straight whether loaded or unloaded.

Another problem is curves: Aerobus uses a rigid rail for changes in direction. This is expensive structurally and economically and favors small-radius curves which impose speed limits and difficulties with the car's suspension. What is needed is a method of supporting gradual curves with cables alone, just like the straightaways, along with a track design that allows the cars to "bank" or lean into the curve - in other words, a track that is torsionally soft without sacrifice of tensile strength. This problem has not yet been solved, but is probably solvable and is under study.

http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Aerial_Ropeways

You can list all the positives for it's use, but problems exist that have not been solved therefore, no one will use the system in any large scale as a reliable transportation option. Will this change in the future possibly, until then it's hasn't been proven to be a reliable or viable option.
Even if it had no cables, and was completely a fixed guideway, wouldn't it still be at a competitive price with LRT?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #20  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2014, 6:43 PM
Cyro's Avatar
Cyro Cyro is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,197
Quote:
Originally Posted by njaohnt View Post
Even if it had no cables, and was completely a fixed guideway, wouldn't it still be at a competitive price with LRT?
Without looking at costs, it very well could be close in feasibility to LRT/km.

But if your talking about removing the cables for a fixed system, we wouldn't be talking about the Aerobus PRT system anymore. The concept was designed to use cables, remove them and the whole concept is kind of a moot point?

We're back at alternative methods of LRT.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Manitoba & Saskatchewan
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 1:24 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.