Canadian cities American counterparts

[MolsonExport]

^ok, that's good. I enjoy sarcasm and jest. And yes these navel-gazing comparisons are often quite silly.

Except for Jacksonville and Toronto (dead ringers).

[phone]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

And yes these navel-gazing comparisons are often quite silly.

Yeah my eyes roll when we as Canadians pretend like we are "sooooo above" the US but then get caught up in these endless comparative exercises. We would like to imagine that the stereotypical Canadian inferiority complex is a thing of the past but threads like this prove that it is very much still around.

Part of the reason of my chiming in is because our American friend who precipitated the renewal of this thread was treated a little unfairly, IMO. Yeah he or she was salty and probably too aggressive but I don't think their conduct rose to the level of ban-worthiness. Too often there is open hostility here to Americans who come in and point out some of the echo chamber aspects of this forum or issues with the collective reasoning, and the defensive dogpile response seems to greatly outweigh whatever harm is being incurred by the boat being rocked a little. From my experience Americans generally have very positive impressions of Canada and Canadian cities are I wish we were a little more welcoming to them, and a little more willing to tolerate those with whom we don't always see eye to eye.

Personally I like it when an outsider comes in and points out issues with the collective wisdom of this forum, and hitting them with bans for conduct that in other instances is often forgiven only seems to buttress the chamber walls more than needs be.

We compare ourselves to the Americans because they are nearby and we are more familiar with them than other countries, I get it. But to limit the discussion to the same old hat of Toronto vs Chicago, Winnipeg vs Chicago, Vancouver vs Seattle etc etc only ever goes in circles. The fact that the discussion never seems to broaden to include British, or Australian, or Russian, or Argentinian, or South African, or Chinese cities indicates that we remain fixated on the Americans to the virtual exclusion of all others, despite our insistence that our cities are pound for pound sooooo superior to American cities for reasons X Y and Z (which, as rightfully but un-popularily pointed out from time to time, is a rather dubious claim, despite the many merits and positive aspects of Canadian cities).

[north 42]

Originally Posted by phone

Yeah my eyes roll when we as Canadians pretend like we are "sooooo above" the US but then get caught up in these endless comparative exercises. We would like to imagine that the stereotypical Canadian inferiority complex is a thing of the past but threads like this prove that it is very much still around.

Part of the reason of my chiming in is because our American friend who precipitated the renewal of this thread was treated a little unfairly, IMO. Yeah he or she was salty and probably too aggressive but I don't think their conduct rose to the level of ban-worthiness. Too often there is open hostility here to Americans who come in and point out some of the echo chamber aspects of this forum or issues with the collective reasoning, and the defensive dogpile response seems to greatly outweigh whatever harm is being incurred by the boat being rocked a little. From my experience Americans generally have very positive impressions of Canada and Canadian cities are I wish we were a little more welcoming to them, and a little more willing to tolerate those with whom we don't always see eye to eye.

Personally I like it when an outsider comes in and points out issues with the collective wisdom of this forum, and hitting them with bans for conduct that in other instances is often forgiven only seems to buttress the chamber walls more than needs be.

We compare ourselves to the Americans because they are nearby and we are more familiar with them than other countries, I get it. But to limit the discussion to the same old hat of Toronto vs Chicago, Winnipeg vs Chicago, Vancouver vs Seattle etc etc only ever goes in circles. The fact that the discussion never seems to broaden to include British, or Australian, or Russian, or Argentinian, or South African, or Chinese cities indicates that we remain fixated on the Americans to the virtual exclusion of all others, despite our insistence that our cities are pound for pound sooooo superior to American cities for reasons X Y and Z (which, as rightfully but un-popularily pointed out from time to time, is a rather dubious claim, despite the many merits and positive aspects of Canadian cities).

He absolutely deserved to be banned! He was participating in other threads where his conduct was just atrocious and he was most definitely a troll.

[phone]

Originally Posted by north 42

He absolutely deserved to be banned! He was participating in other threads where his conduct was just atrocious and he was most definitely a troll.

This is EXACTLY what I mean. In my view the user was heated (edit: and probably deserved to be asked to cool it down a couple times) but had a legitimate and obviously controversial point to make. I didn't agree with it but I don't think it deserved excommunication. To write off an unpopular view as mere "trolling" is totally illustrative of the issue I stated.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by phone

We compare ourselves to the Americans because they are nearby and we are more familiar with them than other countries, I get it. But to limit the discussion to the same old hat of Toronto vs Chicago, Winnipeg vs Chicago, Vancouver vs Seattle etc etc only ever goes in circles.

This thread is about comparing American and Canadian cities though. If you think there are good global comparisons you are welcome to make a thread about that or find one in the list. There's interesting discussion to be had about the detailed ways in which different regions or groups of cities are similar in North America and how they're evolving together or apart (this has changed a lot even in the past decade). But usually such discussion ends up in a tar pit of people who either get upset about cities or posters not "staying in their lane" or others who come in the thread to complain. Instead of talking about how Toronto's developing differently from Midwest American cities or three-deckers in Halifax or how and why Seattle and Vancouver both kept their trolleybuses we a bunch of low information, low effort stuff.

[phone]

Originally Posted by someone123

But usually such discussion ends up in a tar pit of people who either get upset about cities not "staying in their lane" or others who come in the thread to complain. Instead of talking about how Toronto's developing differently from Midwest American cities or three-deckers in Halifax or how and why Seattle and Vancouver both kept their trolleybuses we a bunch of low information, low effort stuff.

I am loath to fit into the category of complainer because I do enjoy the more nuanced discussion that goes on. My gripes are moveover with the dull 1:1 comparisons that try to get bluntly hammered out, and with how American perspectives of how the comparisons fall flat get shouted down. But I'll stop here because I admit that I am not doing much more than complaining. Hopefully I have nevertheless raised something for people to consider.

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by phone

Yeah my eyes roll when we as Canadians pretend like we are "sooooo above" the US but then get caught up in these endless comparative exercises. We would like to imagine that the stereotypical Canadian inferiority complex is a thing of the past but threads like this prove that it is very much still around.

For me it kind of comes down to the fact that the US has a bunch of well-known, relatively distinctive cities that are easy reference points for most people in the English-speaking world (and beyond). It's easier to describe Halifax as "like a Canadian version of Boston, smaller and less serious but with similar types of stuff" than actually explaining the particulars of the city from scratch to someone who isn't familiar. There might be other cities that are closer matches overall but they tend to be less useful as reference points because they're less known.

[memememe76]

If someone wants to make a Canadian Cities Global Counterparts thread, I'd partake. But is a Vancouver vs. Hong Kong discussion less common than Vancouver vs. Seattle?

[north 42]

Originally Posted by phone

This is EXACTLY what I mean. In my view the user was heated (edit: and probably deserved to be asked to cool it down a couple times) but had a legitimate and obviously controversial point to make. I didn't agree with it but I don't think it deserved excommunication. To write off an unpopular view as mere "trolling" is totally illustrative of the issue I stated.

He was constantly attacking other people who had a different view than himself and often resorted to name calling and other forms of abuse, so sorry, but that’s not an acceptable way to conduct yourself here, he deserved to be banned.
He was banned at City-Data for the same behaviour under the name “magicinterest”, I knew right away it was him when he started with the same crap here.

[Razor]

Ya, comparing U.S cities to Canadian cities in make up is fruitless really..It's like comparing a 50 year old to a 20 year old in both current appearance, and old baggage/scars.St. Louis has been around the block..Been there!. Saskatoon, Not so much. Only Montreal could maybe pull off hanging with St.Louis ..Like Two old cougars going to see the Chipendales at a joint where smoking is still allowed inside.. Ha...Canadian cities have just never been through the ringer..That being white flight, abandonment, segreation etc..At least not to the same level. Hamilton still lives on a nice street, which remains across the tracks from both Detroit, and (literally) Buffalo..Toronto refuses to let Compton's little brother move up and into it's vacant basement apartment.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

^ok, that's good. I enjoy sarcasm and jest. And yes these navel-gazing comparisons are often quite silly.

Except for Jacksonville and Toronto (dead ringers).

Toronto can't quite match that Jacksonville skyline though.

[BillM]

Perhaps we need to be more specific about the similarities of the two cities. Is it the geography, the culture, the built form? Is there a neighborhood, street or intersection that is uncannily similar?

[BillM]

Originally Posted by phone

I have been to Montreal but not Worcester, and I have been to Gary but not Hamilton (other than the QEW). But yeah it's basically in jest, sort of turning the comparison of Canadian cities to (often much larger) American hubs on its head. Comparing Halifax to Boston seems about as accurate as comparing Montreal to some second or third rate American city a quarter of its size.

Mainly I was just pointing out how futile these comparisons end up being. It's fun to draw comparisons but they will inevitably come up short.

That said, I did try to pick comparisons that had at least a thread of (perhaps churlish) commonality, if not for any other reason than to draw attention to all the other flaws in the comparison.

I do see the Hamilton - Gary similarity when put into context with their surrounding regions.

[Acajack]

As I've long said, Hamilton's best analogue is probably Geelong, Victoria, Australia.

Saint-Étienne, in eastern France, also isn't too bad an analogue for Hamilton.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by Acajack

As I've long said, Hamilton's best analogue is probably Geelong, Victoria, Australia.

Saint-Étienne, in eastern France, also isn't too bad an analogue for Hamilton.

Maybe Charleroi?

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Docere

Toronto can't quite match that Jacksonville skyline though.

there are none that can.

srcdn


visitjacksonville


wikipedia

[Chadillaccc]

Originally Posted by BillM

Perhaps we need to be more specific about the similarities of the two cities. Is it the geography, the culture, the built form? Is there a neighborhood, street or intersection that is uncannily similar?

I've been going for the geography, culture, built form when I've mentioned my comparisons (Calgary/Denver, Victoria/Madison, Toronto/Chicago).

[phone]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

I've been going for the geography, culture, built form when I've mentioned my comparisons (Calgary/Denver, Victoria/Madison, Toronto/Chicago).

Yeah the Victoria/Madison comparison was novel, I hadn't considered it before. My understanding is that Madison is a rather pleasant city, and is niche famous for the University of Wisconsin's geography department.

I have spent some time in Kiel, Germany and that city always reminded me of Halifax with a sprinkling of Kingston mixed in. It is one of Germany's principal naval cities and is also quite well-known for its sailing culture, and is right between those two cities in terms of population. The culture there is distinctly maritime with lobster rolls and whitefish fillets on the menu nearly everywhere you go, and the physical layout is almost a mirror image of Halifax minus the Bedford Basin.

Drawing these comparisons to German cities is a little more difficult to illustrate given that Germany is famous for its lack of street view, but here are some images that might help demonstrate what I mean:


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Brittanica


CruiseMapper


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