Winnipeg | True North Square | 86.9M | 77.8M | 25F | 17F | 22F | 17F | 19F | U/C

[BigG]

Cloutier: A Glorious Downtown Day

Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada / 680 CJOB
Posted: February 24, 2016


Sometimes you just need to quit looking for the bad and celebrate the good.

True North Square is an important step in the growth of our downtown. Four new towers will be built including a signature hotel between MTS Centre and RBC Convention Centre. It will be accessible to Winnipeggers in design and function – a people place with a video wall to bring us together and maybe a long NHL playoff run celebration.

The deal is a partnership between True North Sports and Entertainment and James Richardson and Sons. Two important Winnipeg families: the Chipmans and Richardsons, two families that believe in this city.

This is not philanthropy. This is business driven by a core philosophy that if you built it, they will come. True North will certainly be looking for Winnipeg and non-Winnipeg businesses to locate in the development. Scotiabank, Sutton Place Hotels, law firm Thompson Dorfman Sweatman and Liquor Marts have signed on with others in the works.

Three important questions:

Will this mean Portage and Main businesses will move west to True North? Some will. It could force those owners to upgrade and even embrace the idea of opening up the intersection to pedestrians.
What will happen to the Hudson’s Bay building at Portage and Memorial? The retailer has been patient but sooner rather than later a group of investors will emerge to redevelop the building into a mix of residential, offices and retail. Hopefully enough momentum will emerge along Graham Avenue to spur private development including other residential projects in the area.
What about Portage Place? The parking is fine but the mall needs a major makeover – likely a strategy that brings more offices to the space. This will be a challenge as more retailers may end up heading south of Portage.

Source: http://www.cjob.com/2016/02/24/clout...-downtown-day/

[Urban recluse]

Cheers

[BigG]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

Cheers

[buzzg]

I like the point it makes about The Bay. While on the surface it would seem that this could kill The Bay, I think it could just be its saving grace — not just the building, but the business as well. With all the new residents added (so close to it), they are going to want to shop places. A lot of these people may not have cars, or may not want to go down to Polo all the time. Downtown location aside, The Bay has REALLY upped their game the last few years and has fantastic products that are even drawing younger people back to their stores. Whoever their head buyer is is a genius. A two-storey, proper "downtown" location may not just be viable, but lucrative in 5 years.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by buzzg

I like the point it makes about The Bay. While on the surface it would seem that this could kill The Bay, I think it could just be its saving grace — not just the building, but the business as well. With all the new residents added (so close to it), they are going to want to shop places. A lot of these people may not have cars, or may not want to go down to Polo all the time. Downtown location aside, The Bay has REALLY upped their game the last few years and has fantastic products that are even drawing younger people back to their stores. Whoever their head buyer is is a genius. A two-storey, proper "downtown" location may not just be viable, but lucrative in 5 years.

Given how many people work downtown, I find it astonishing that there isn't a better selection of stores in the area. Between work and family, I never have time to go to the mall... I might make it to Polo Park a couple times a year these days, once around Christmas and maybe one other time. I do as much shopping as I can downtown either at lunch or right after work.

Perhaps having a bunch more people in the area might breathe some new life into the existing retail offerings... but then again, it has only gotten worse since Hydro opened up its office, and there are literally thousands of people working in there.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by esquire

Given how many people work downtown, I find it astonishing that there isn't a better selection of stores in the area. Between work and family, I never have time to go to the mall... I might make it to Polo Park a couple times a year these days, once around Christmas and maybe one other time. I do as much shopping as I can downtown either at lunch or right after work.

Perhaps having a bunch more people in the area might breathe some new life into the existing retail offerings... but then again, it has only gotten worse since Hydro opened up its office, and there are literally thousands of people working in there.

Fair assessment, but the big difference being that this is adding residential. Hydro workers probably 90% live in the suburbs, and some of the ones that are taking the bus now probably want to get on the bus right away and get home. We all know how fun taking the bus can be after 6 o'clock on some routes.

[cutchemist42]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

They're relocating from elsewhere. There is not pent up demand.

So is this a healthy development? Is it better to have office towers fighting like this? How much surplus office space does this create?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by cutchemist42

So is this a healthy development? Is it better to have office towers fighting like this? How much surplus office space does this create?

I would think that the effects will be felt downstream... without TNS, TDS would have likely stayed put and Scotia would have just expanded at 360 Main. Now those vacancies will probably be filled with some company that's currently in a smaller class B building, like 444 St. Mary. Then 444 fills its space with someone who would have been in a small walkup commercial building. Then the small walkup commercial building sits vacant.

So far, this project is taking tenants from Portage and Main. But there's lots of space left and I'm sure some of it will eventually be filled by new-to-Winnipeg offices, relocations from suburbia or local companies that have grown to a point where they are ready to move into an office tower for the first time.

[OverUnder]

Nothing wrong with competition in a marketplace. Many Winnipeger's first instincts seem to be "we shouldn't build more because there's no demand". In a dynamic marketplace, having entrepreneurs expand and develop will push the whole market. TNS becomes the new #1 and P&M will either have to renovate or decrease rents. The result is organic private sector growth and movement in the office and services industries. The spinoff effects of a $300 million, mostly private source - development will be very significant.

On the retail side, the injection of new, flashy condos finally represents a supply of downtown housing for young professionals and single or small households. Every other major Canadian city is having a renaissance in downtown living. Why should Winnipeg be any different?

[Authentic_City]

Wow, lots of great information. I'm late to the discussion, so my appologies if this has already been discussed.

Did I read correctly (somewhere on the True North Square website) that their proposed development will include a grocery store? If this is true, I wonder what this will mean for SkyCity's attempts to lure a grocery store to their development?

I agree with most of what has been said about the potential synergies between SkyCity and True North. I would think out of town investors in SkyCity would be rubbing their hands together watching a new major development springing up near their investment.

Also, it's interesting to see the old Winnipeg money (Richardson) coming together with the new Winnipeg Money (Chipmans). I never saw that happening. Is Thompson still involved?

[Authentic_City]

Here it is:

http://www.truenorthsquare.com/development/amenities/

"ON-SITE RETAIL

With onsite retailers within the plaza, including a grocery store, wine store, and various convenience retail stores and restaurants at the ground and skywalk levels True North Square offers the convenience and accessibility your employees look for – to socialize and collaborate; mingle in restaurants, lounges, cafes, bars and meeting spaces throughout True North Square."

[Urban recluse]

Yes, a "boutique grocery store" will be included.

[Authentic_City]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

Yes, a "boutique grocery store" will be included.

So does this mean "Stephen and Andrews"-boutique or "Small Koren-type convenience store with few groceries" -boutique?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by OverUnder

On the retail side, the injection of new, flashy condos finally represents a supply of downtown housing for young professionals and single or small households. Every other major Canadian city is having a renaissance in downtown living. Why should Winnipeg be any different?

Very true. If you're a single, reasonably well paid 28 year old looking for an upscale downtown residence, the choices here are pretty minimal compared to other cities...there are a few small Exchange District condos and soon Glasshouse and Heritage Landing. Maybe eventually dCondo and SkyCity.

Not exactly a cornucopia of choices, especially given that this type of lifestyle is far more popular with the current generation than it was 20 years ago.

[Urban recluse]

Originally Posted by Authentic_City

So does this mean "Stephen and Andrews"-boutique or "Small Koren-type convenience store with few groceries" -boutique?

Think La Grotta, not Will's.

[Urban recluse]

Originally Posted by esquire

Very true. If you're a single, reasonably well paid 28 year old looking for an upscale downtown residence, the choices here are pretty minimal compared to other cities...there are a few small Exchange District condos and soon Glasshouse and Heritage Landing. Maybe eventually dCondo and SkyCity.

Not exactly a cornucopia of choices, especially given that this type of lifestyle is far more popular with the current generation than it was 20 years ago.

As well, based on recent trends, more people are moving to Winnipeg. The key is to ensure good-paying jobs are created to support the urban lifestyle.

[esquire]

Thinking about TNS some more and its impact on downtown's centre of gravity, if you look at the development that has taken place over the last 30 years and what's proposed as of now, it does seem that we're moving from a downtown focused on P&M and radiating outward, to one where there is a box bounded by Portage, Main, Graham and Memorial that forms the true hub of downtown Winnipeg... within that small space you have the main business district (P&M with a subdistrict closer to TNS), the main entertainment district (SHED), the main shopping area (Portage Place/the Bay) and several of the big hotels (Fairmont/Radisson/Alt, with the Marlborough/Delta/Sutton Place/Holiday Inn/Humphry Inn not far away).

In some ways this is reframing the mental map of downtown from a bullseye/target model to a somewhat self-contained brick.

[buzzg]

^And if some more residential towers were to eventually go up on the surface lots behind Portage place, it would pull together both sides of Portage better, and refocus attention on Portage more, as the majority of residents wouldn't just be south of Portage and south of Broadway.

[Urban recluse]

I would like to think in ten years, those lots would be developed.

[robertocarlos]

The hair salon in City Place is closing. Maybe they are moving to another space. I didn't ask.