Tobin Center Renovation

[JACKinBeantown]

I don't see the Predator, but I do see the back of a giant CRT (non flat screen) TV.

[necropolis]

it would be nice to have a modern building, one that shows san antonio's creativity. but this rendering looks like chaos. There's nothing modern about the addition other than the tv screen. reminds me of something that could have been built in the 70's not 2010.

[kornbread]

Originally Posted by oldmanshirt

Anyone else think it kinda looks like the Predator?

I saw it and thought:
"What the hell are you?"

[JACKinBeantown]

Originally Posted by kornbread

I saw it and thought:
"What the hell are you?"

With a thick Austrian accent, no doubt.

[gunadic]

@JackinNYC

Well yeah, thats what your going to get in a modern theater space. The current Municipal Auditorium wasn't built with modern theater productions in mind and, from what I've seen in pictures, they've got absolutely nothing in terms of cove space. If you look at the Hobby Center in Houston from above, the main theater has the same general shape.

There is a reason why most Performing Arts centers don't advertise with areal shots.

@Necropolis

Unfortunately that's just the way things are (the UFO crashing into the Auditorium). There is a reason why many major cities aren't trying to bring historical structures up to the state of the art and are just building new instead: Its the classic case of a square peg and a circle hole. The Municipal Auditorium isn't really good at anything, and it requires major changes.

Besides, I quite like the new design... the current facade is... kinda bleh IMHO.

[Keep-SA-Lame]

Originally Posted by gunadic

@JackinNYC


the current facade is... kinda bleh IMHO.

Oh no you didn't

[gunadic]

Originally Posted by Keep-SA-Lame

Oh no you didn't

Should have specified, meant the sides and back. The front, while nothing special (again IMHO), isn't horrible. Then again, thats the parts they're keeping.

[JACKinBeantown]

Originally Posted by gunadic

The front, while nothing special (again IMHO), isn't horrible.

"RECOMMENDATION:
The Municipal Auditorium is a local landmark and listed on the National Register of Historic Places..."

[gunadic]

Originally Posted by JACKinNYC

"RECOMMENDATION:
The Municipal Auditorium is a local landmark and listed on the National Register of Historic Places..."

So its on the list. You know what else is? This flour mill. If the auditorium wants to truly become a state of the art performing arts center, it won't blend in easily. Would you rather the auditorium fade into obscurity as its deficiencies become more and more obvious? I think the HDRC withdrew its rejection because somebody showed them how much and what sorts of space a modern theater requires.

To you I pose a question. What is more important: the appearance of a place or the continued use of the space? I vote the latter mostly because appearances can always be changed. This isn't a Penn Station/Madison Square Garden situation. We aren't tearing down a veritable palace to put up a basketball court. The purpose of the area remains the same, and I dare say if the flashy bits of the building can draw kids to the Arts, I'm all for it.

[JACKinBeantown]

Originally Posted by gunadic

So its on the list. You know what else is? This flour mill. If the auditorium wants to truly become a state of the art performing arts center, it won't blend in easily. Would you rather the auditorium fade into obscurity as its deficiencies become more and more obvious? I think the HDRC withdrew its rejection because somebody showed them how much and what sorts of space a modern theater requires.

To you I pose a question. What is more important: the appearance of a place or the continued use of the space? I vote the latter mostly because appearances can always be changed. This isn't a Penn Station/Madison Square Garden situation. We aren't tearing down a veritable palace to put up a basketball court. The purpose of the area remains the same, and I dare say if the flashy bits of the building can draw kids to the Arts, I'm all for it.

Why does it have to be a choice? There's too much all-or-nothing / either or / "with us or against us" in the world today. Why not hire a good architect who can increase the space as necessary in a way that looks as though the original architect intended it to be that way. Otherwise they should just build an entirely new auditorium. And to draw kids to the arts, showcase the artists they want to see while exposing them to good architecture. Pretty simple.

[Fireoutofclay]

Originally Posted by JACKinNYC

Why does it have to be a choice? There's too much all-or-nothing / either or / "with us or against us" in the world today. Why not hire a good architect who can increase the space as necessary in a way that looks as though the original architect intended it to be that way. Otherwise they should just build an entirely new auditorium. And to draw kids to the arts, showcase the artists they want to see while exposing them to good architecture. Pretty simple.

JACKinNYC you're my hero!

[JACKinBeantown]

Aww, shucks.

[gunadic]

Originally Posted by JACKinNYC

Why does it have to be a choice? There's too much all-or-nothing / either or / "with us or against us" in the world today. Why not hire a good architect who can increase the space as necessary in a way that looks as though the original architect intended it to be that way. Otherwise they should just build an entirely new auditorium. And to draw kids to the arts, showcase the artists they want to see while exposing them to good architecture. Pretty simple.

Well that's just it. This is an all-or-nothing situation. The Tobin Center wants to be a state-of-the-art, modern facility in the same location as the Municipal Auditorium. Something has gotta give. Fly-towers, lighting coves, orchestra pits, mezzanines and balconies all have to go somewhere.

Take a look at image 2 of 3. Modern theaters require support space be it for actors, technical purposes, acoustics etc. Built in 1926, the shape and design of the Municipal auditorium simply isn't compatible with these requirements as it is designed. If the Tobin Center is going to go ahead, its shape will change drastically. The veil is there to simplify the center's outward appearance. Without it you'd see blocks of support spaces topped with ventilation.

Your choice.

[Keep-SA-Lame]

Originally Posted by gunadic

Well that's just it. This is an all-or-nothing situation. The Tobin Center wants to be a state-of-the-art, modern facility in the same location as the Municipal Auditorium. Something has gotta give. Fly-towers, lighting coves, orchestra pits, mezzanines and balconies all have to go somewhere.

Take a look at image 2 of 3. Modern theaters require support space be it for actors, technical purposes, acoustics etc. Built in 1926, the shape and design of the Municipal auditorium simply isn't compatible with these requirements as it is designed. If the Tobin Center is going to go ahead, its shape will change drastically. The veil is there to simplify the center's outward appearance. Without it you'd see blocks of support spaces topped with ventilation.

Your choice.

I understand that. Obviously there's going to be a huge change in the building. But to me the facade of the proposal seems pretty uninspired and isn't really compatible with the historic facade. They don't really complement each other at all.

[jaga185]

I agree, the facade could use a more "thought provoking" historic feel to it.

[Fireoutofclay]

This was a voter approved initiative which probably would have been rejected if the voters had to pay for it. I would have felt better about this center if the city had voted to build a brand spanking new $100 million center for the arts in a different location and would pay for it ourselves. Then there would be no dispute about the need / want for one, and the cost of maintaining it would be less of an issue.
But money is clearly an issue and, with the economy the way it is, it will be for some time long after its done. And I know that although art is the first thing you turn to classy up your profile, it's also the first thing to go when you're balancing budgets.
Why not just build an entirely new venue? There are many great downtown locations that are available. Houston's Hobby Center cost 92mil in 2002. Of course they tore down the Houston Music Hall and Sam Houston Coliseum to do it. Should we be grateful that the city is not tearing it down altogether (HemisFair Arena).
Why are we depriving downtown of a midsized venue by stripping the MA? This is a supposed to be a people's auditorium, meant to be used by the entire city. Graduations, conferences, concerts, all held there. I wonder if this will be the case with this new center. And you can't argue location. The MA is surrounded by a mish mash: a firestation, a couple of office buildings, a war memorial, a very nice period house with an obsevatory, an apartment building, and a (dentist office or tai church, something or other).
This reminds me of that old Fiesta Plaza (now UTSA downtown campus) which was abandoned pretty much right after the grand opening, that was also pushed by the city with the "if we build it they will come" mentality. It's that same mentality that brought us the Alamodome and Grand Hyatt. And the city is pushing this center. That is why I think they strongarmed the HDRC, yanked its leash.

Again, I'm not against an arts center. I guess my question is: why have one theater venue when we can have two for the price of one?

I think that it is a shame that the HDRC failed to defend the Municipal Auditorium from being gutted and dissected into a mere facade ala Texas Theater. Its otherwordly that they would defend (on more than one occasion) an abandoned decrepid fish market from being turned into a hotel, then turn around and pretty much wave the white flag on this. Now if the Conservation Society sits quietly on this then we'll know that the city has two dogs at its feet.

[kornbread]

I agree with much of what you said.

Why not designate this in a new location and start new? Create a bookend for the downtown library. at&t was supposed to build a parking garage in the area of the auditorium (or so I thought). Maybe that has been worked into their plans?

The auditorium was on fire in 1979 and there was some effort to restore it to what it is today. http://www.sanantonio.gov/convfac/MA/maoverview.asp
Seems like that's worth retaining.

[oldmanshirt]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/mun...105395298.html

It passed HDRC, but sounds like the design is far from finalized

[sakyle04]

Ding ding ding!!! Modern meets classic!!!

[UTSABA06]

Looks good!