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  #61  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2018, 5:05 AM
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BC is too polarized for any movement to take hold: coast vs interior, owners vs renters, new residents vs. established residents, those those living off passive or government income vs. those who have unpredictable income
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  #62  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2018, 5:14 AM
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The west coast states and province have never been right wing from Alaska all the way down to California.
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  #63  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2018, 11:33 PM
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Never been right-wing? California used to be a GOP stronghold and both presidents Nixon and Reagan were from there.
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  #64  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2018, 4:10 AM
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So what caused California that made it became left-wing? (Other than Inland California.)
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  #65  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2018, 4:43 AM
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So what caused California that made it became left-wing? (Other than Inland California.)
California became a hotbed of crises which Reagan and Bush Sr. ignored or exacerbated. (AIDS epidemic, LA riot, etc.)
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  #66  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2018, 5:16 AM
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Increased ethnic diversity, exodus of white conservatives and the shift of the GOP to a more explicilty Christian and Southern rather than Western-based party.
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  #67  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2018, 5:25 AM
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Increased ethnic diversity, exodus of white conservatives and the shift of the GOP to a more explicilty Christian and Southern rather than Western-based party.
Ethnic diversity doesn't mean much in terms of the Californian flip. It either happened too late (mid-to-late 90s) or you are overestimating the effect. Exodus of white conservatives is another red herring as that happened even later, circa late 90s and early 00s. Neither of these demarcate the flip.
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  #68  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2018, 5:50 PM
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Ethnic diversity doesn't mean much in terms of the Californian flip. It either happened too late (mid-to-late 90s) or you are overestimating the effect. Exodus of white conservatives is another red herring as that happened even later, circa late 90s and early 00s. Neither of these demarcate the flip.
It was a gradual process that didn't have one and only one cause. California only narrowly voted for Clinton and Gore, and it really only became a Dem bememoth in the 2008 election.
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  #69  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2018, 5:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug View Post
BC is too polarized for any movement to take hold: coast vs interior, owners vs renters, new residents vs. established residents, those those living off passive or government income vs. those who have unpredictable income
I don't buy that, given that populists often thrive in polarized environments and that BC itself was the "populist" capital of Canada through the 1990s.
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  #70  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2018, 10:59 PM
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I don't buy that, given that populists often thrive in polarized environments and that BC itself was the "populist" capital of Canada through the 1990s.
Where's the populist capital of Canada now -- Doug Ford's Ontario?
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  #71  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2018, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Denscity View Post
The west coast states and province have never been right wing from Alaska all the way down to California.
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Originally Posted by Docere View Post
Never been right-wing? California used to be a GOP stronghold and both presidents Nixon and Reagan were from there.
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So what caused California that made it became left-wing? (Other than Inland California.)
When did the west coast (of North America more broadly) become the "left coast" or become associated with being more left wing? Was it the time of the 60s, the 70s counterculture or environmentalist movement?

I know some say that there's always been a more "libertarian", individualistic streak for the west since it was settled by Americans from the more "establishment" east.

There's also the trend that shows westerners as less religious than those out east (for both the US and Canada). Places like BC, Washington state etc. are among the least religious on the continent.
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  #72  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2018, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Capsicum View Post
When did the west coast (of North America more broadly) become the "left coast" or become associated with being more left wing? Was it the time of the 60s, the 70s counterculture or environmentalist movement?

I know some say that there's always been a more "libertarian", individualistic streak for the west since it was settled by Americans from the more "establishment" east.

There's also the trend that shows westerners as less religious than those out east (for both the US and Canada). Places like BC, Washington state etc. are among the least religious on the continent.
In Canada, BC had a much more radical labor movement than elsewhere in the country. Even today, it probably has the strongest class-based voting on the continent.
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  #73  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2018, 5:43 AM
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I will be controversial and say, BC is lucky in the sense that we have generally been a successful, desirable place to live over the last 100 years. Our economy hasn't always been great but it has been much steadier than most other places (ie. avoiding recessions, massive up and down swings, etc.) For most of the 20th century and into the 21st, our population growth has exceeded national averages and people generally have wanted to move and settle here (this isn't factoring in the housing run up of the last few years and the still unknown effects it will have on our long term desirability). But if we are talking historically, people generally want a government that runs things well, and as much as people think polarized politics are major, they aren't. There are super loud left minorities who make the news and give the impression the entire province is a certain way. Not so many on the right, and a generally quieter centre that is the backbone. Don't forget, Christie Clark did not "get crushed" in the last election, they were within a few votes of winning the most seats and still won the popular vote. The NDP didn't sweep the way Doug Ford did in Ontario. Had the housing crisis not taken so much attention in greater Van, BC Liberals would've won again easily, and been in power for 20 years altogether (since 2001). If for whatever reason the Greens don't side with Horgan on any vote coming up, we have another election and it could go either way
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  #74  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2018, 4:31 PM
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I will be controversial and say, BC is lucky in the sense that we have generally been a successful, desirable place to live over the last 100 years
I agree

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  #75  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2018, 5:36 PM
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I agree

Pretty much we've been stable and we've seen huge growth due to our attractiveness to the international market. Hoping we don't screw the pooch.

I know we equate our expensive housing as a major cause of the homeless problem downtown but if you look at comparables we're doing better than many other cities and I assume Red Deer's housing is much less expensive than Vancouver's. Personally I believe homeless cannot be reduced much more than it is already, throwing money at it until we build free housing for everyone is taking a stupid and expensive approach that ignores the underlying problems causing people to be homeless. It needs to be solved at the Federal level by changing the charter to not give people a right to be homeless (forced to enter rehab or work).

Given the percentage of people born with mental illness and the amount of people doing drugs having only 3 of every 1000 people be homeless does not seem terrible. Vancouver's homelessness is also artificially increased since homeless people from across Greater Vancouver all move downtown increasing Vancouver's percentage.
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  #76  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2018, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Docere View Post
In Canada, BC had a much more radical labor movement than elsewhere in the country. Even today, it probably has the strongest class-based voting on the continent.
I know that the Pacific Northwest in the US had a strong labor movement and so did California, but I don't know how they compare or relate to BC. Maybe it's because BC continues to be dependent on natural resources while the US West coast isn't as much.

Nowadays, I don't perceive the US West coast as being that much more pro-labor than the northeast New England/upper Midwest, but BC definitely seems more pro-labor, pro-union, than places further east (besides more northern parts of Canada).
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  #77  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2018, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by misher View Post
Pretty much we've been stable and we've seen huge growth due to our attractiveness to the international market. Hoping we don't screw the pooch.

I know we equate our expensive housing as a major cause of the homeless problem downtown but if you look at comparables we're doing better than many other cities and I assume Red Deer's housing is much less expensive than Vancouver's. Personally I believe homeless cannot be reduced much more than it is already, throwing money at it until we build free housing for everyone is taking a stupid and expensive approach that ignores the underlying problems causing people to be homeless. It needs to be solved at the Federal level by changing the charter to not give people a right to be homeless (forced to enter rehab or work).




Given the percentage of people born with mental illness and the amount of people doing drugs having only 3 of every 1000 people be homeless does not seem terrible. Vancouver's homelessness is also artificially increased since homeless people from across Greater Vancouver all move downtown increasing Vancouver's percentage.
Not just greater Vancouver but across the country!
Some homeless people only speak French according to Vancouver police.
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  #78  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2018, 1:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Capsicum View Post
I know that the Pacific Northwest in the US had a strong labor movement and so did California, but I don't know how they compare or relate to BC. Maybe it's because BC continues to be dependent on natural resources while the US West coast isn't as much.

Nowadays, I don't perceive the US West coast as being that much more pro-labor than the northeast New England/upper Midwest, but BC definitely seems more pro-labor, pro-union, than places further east (besides more northern parts of Canada).
BC was sort of founded as a (white) workingman's paradise of sorts and I think BC's modern day "left coast" image can be traced back to that in some ways (though obviously the utopianism has undergone gentrification of sorts).
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  #79  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2018, 5:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Denscity View Post
Not just greater Vancouver but across the country!
Some homeless people only speak French according to Vancouver police.
Hah I was going to write this but I couldn't find any data to support it
But yeah it feels like half the homeless aren't even from here. We soak up the country's homeless like a sponge.
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  #80  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2018, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by misher View Post
Pretty much we've been stable and we've seen huge growth due to our attractiveness to the international market. Hoping we don't screw the pooch.

I know we equate our expensive housing as a major cause of the homeless problem downtown but if you look at comparables we're doing better than many other cities and I assume Red Deer's housing is much less expensive than Vancouver's. Personally I believe homeless cannot be reduced much more than it is already, throwing money at it until we build free housing for everyone is taking a stupid and expensive approach that ignores the underlying problems causing people to be homeless. It needs to be solved at the Federal level by changing the charter to not give people a right to be homeless (forced to enter rehab or work).

Given the percentage of people born with mental illness and the amount of people doing drugs having only 3 of every 1000 people be homeless does not seem terrible. Vancouver's homelessness is also artificially increased since homeless people from across Greater Vancouver all move downtown increasing Vancouver's percentage.
Rubbish. In your world view the only thing BC has going for it is pimping itself out to offshore money. Those of us who have been here longer than a few years well remember Socred premier Bill Bennett famously declaring "British Columbia is Not for Sale". You'd have her tarted up and paraded around in hooker heels for foreign buyers.
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