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  #41  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2019, 4:13 PM
Curmudgeon Curmudgeon is offline
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^ So if someone drives in from Stonewall do you think they use less or more than 80L per week?, I was just suggesting what the average two person household might use, and that is including use of a vehicle for other transportation needs besides getting to and from work. I don't think I'm far off the mark, perhaps even under estimating. What if you worked in Oak Bluff or St. Norbert? Would you bus it? Well, not if you worked in Oak Bluff, because there is no bus service.

Even with the implementation of the carbon tax, heating by electricity is FAR more expensive at present rates for the typical home, about $500 more per heating season according to Manitoba Hydro. While hydro is not subject to the carbon tax, I think we can be certain that the price for hydro will rise at a rate considerably higher than inflation in coming years, as will items like the basic charge on your bill.

Use foam insulation to wrap your hot water piping to prevent heat loss.

Don't go the lake at all in the summer and just stay home and walk to a nearby park for recreation, you will reduce your carbon footprint. Or cycle to Bird's Hill Park. Going to the lake or the beach is too much to expect isn't it? How many people in India, or even in Europe for that matter, drive 200-300 km round trip to spend a weekend at the lake? It's pretty selfish. In the alternative, take the train, VIA has service to Brereton Lake departing Union Station at 10:30 p.m. on Sundays and Thursdays arriving at midnight. Just walk when you arrive. Also, take only cold showers and use only cold water for laundry and washing dishes, and reduce the number of showers you take and the number of changes of clothing. Just shower once a week and wear the same clothing for a week as well. In the summer months shower in thunderstorms. Rain water is excellent for your hair. Wear an undershirt to keep your shirt clean. Deodorant is not permitted, it is not made in Manitoba and has to be trucked in. Make your own from local products. On other days, just have a quick sponge bath using a litre of cold water in the bathroom sink. That was common practice in the early 20th century. People bathed even less frequently until well into the 19th century. People aren't supposed to smell like chemicals anyways.

Also, buy only local products to reduce your contribution to Canada's overall carbon emissions. There are plenty of food items available to ensure a healthy diet, for example during the winter months you can survive on potatoes, onions, turnips, beets, lentils and eggs, as well as various dairy and meat products. That's exactly what people did in the Red River Colony days, so it should not be difficult. No restaurant meals unless the entire menu is locally sourced.

By the way, is it legal now to keep chickens in the yard? I heard a change to the by-laws was being considered at one point. A goat is a good investment too, a natural lawn mower.
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  #42  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2019, 4:18 PM
Curmudgeon Curmudgeon is offline
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Originally Posted by rrskylar View Post
Lets hope! Anyone who champions any kind of tax is a moron.

When does China with close to 1.5 Billion people implement their carbon tax?
Oh come on, have a heart, if Canada can get our share of the world's carbon emissions down from 1.6% to even 1.0%, I'm sure that will put a stop to global warming and climate change. It's the right thing to do, just put on a snowmobile suit at home in the winter.
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  #43  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2019, 4:19 PM
bomberjet bomberjet is offline
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Instead of driving in from Stonewall everyday, get a job in Stonewall or live in Winnipeg? That's a solution. Stonewall is a nice place. I like it there, have numerous family members in town. My mom drives in down Hwy 7 everyday for work. She does not use 80l per week in her car.

We could go on and on. From the way everyone is talking, maybe taking the lead from dear leader Scheer, we will all be dead from lack of money within a very short time frame.

A bigger problem IMO, regular fluctuations in gas prices. More harmful than the carbon tax ever will be.

For clarity, I support neither Trudeau or Scheer.
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  #44  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2019, 4:27 PM
TimeFadesAway TimeFadesAway is offline
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Originally Posted by rrskylar View Post
Lets hope! Anyone who champions any kind of tax is a moron.

When does China with close to 1.5 Billion people implement their carbon tax?
They have a cap and trade system already in effect.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chines...trading_scheme
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  #45  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2019, 4:45 PM
Curmudgeon Curmudgeon is offline
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carbon tax discusions

Some use less some use more, I was suggesting 80L a week would represent an average for a two person household. I bet you a contractor would use a lot more than that, or a person commuting from farther away, or a two vehicle household.

The theory of a carbon tax might be sensible, but it is not a good policy for this country at this time. Canada is probably the least efficient developed country, it certainly is the coldest, unless you include Russia. Yes, I guess I'm selfish, I do want a strong national economy and high living standards for the Canadian people. The country can become more efficient without a carbon tax. Plus the worst polluters are subject to the tax on only a small portion of their emissions. Why are a Canadian cities still sprawling? Why are we sustaining a rate of population increase that is not only economically unsustainable but results in increased emissions? I don't want Canada to go down the same path in the 21st century that Argentina did in the 20th, that is going from one of the world's ten wealthiest economies per capita a century ago to 64th today. We're already slipping further and further behind the U.S. which is deeply concerning.
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  #46  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2019, 6:58 PM
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Originally Posted by bomberjet View Post
Instead of driving in from Stonewall everyday, get a job in Stonewall or live in Winnipeg? That's a solution. Stonewall is a nice place. I like it there, have numerous family members in town. My mom drives in down Hwy 7 everyday for work. She does not use 80l per week in her car.

We could go on and on. From the way everyone is talking, maybe taking the lead from dear leader Scheer, we will all be dead from lack of money within a very short time frame.

A bigger problem IMO, regular fluctuations in gas prices. More harmful than the carbon tax ever will be.

For clarity, I support neither Trudeau or Scheer.
It was interesting to see how gas prices went up sharply before the carbon tax on gasoline was even implemented and followed by another increase even after the carbon tax was added.

Three cash gouging increases and only one from the govt.

Consumption taxes are never fair!
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  #47  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2019, 7:34 PM
bomberjet bomberjet is offline
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Originally Posted by rrskylar View Post
It was interesting to see how gas prices went up sharply before the carbon tax on gasoline was even implemented and followed by another increase even after the carbon tax was added.

Three cash gouging increases and only one from the govt.

Consumption taxes are never fair!
I'm not an expert on petroleum by any means. But couldn't we build a small local refinery in Manitoba, use the oil from SW and make our own fuel? Cutting out the reliance on global markets? Or would the price be so high it's unsustainable. I would assume this has been well thought out already.

As much as we talk about carbon tax and electrics, gasoline will be around for a long time yet. Relying on Saudis and Russia to control the price of our oil is bullshit.

Also, apologies for getting way off topic.
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  #48  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2019, 8:05 PM
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Personally I think the carbon tax should be reinvested into green technology and things like transit instead of getting it back but making it revenue neutral is the only way to sell it politically as this discussion points out.

A good description fior why it still works even if you get the money back is - if I told you I would reimburse you at the end of the year all the money you spent on cauliflower, which was made more expensive through a tax, you might choose less expensive broccoli more often when you are standing at the grocery store. You still get the money back but you’ve changed your behaviour.
If Pallister had played ball, that could have happened. The ideal is, as you say, the revenues get reinvested in electric buses, for example. Unfortunately in Canada, it has become a partisan issue with Conservatives pretty much uniformly opposed. Unfortunately, in the meantime, the environmental crisis isn't getting any better.
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  #49  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2019, 8:20 PM
TimeFadesAway TimeFadesAway is offline
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Originally Posted by bomberjet View Post
I'm not an expert on petroleum by any means. But couldn't we build a small local refinery in Manitoba, use the oil from SW and make our own fuel? Cutting out the reliance on global markets? Or would the price be so high it's unsustainable. I would assume this has been well thought out already.

As much as we talk about carbon tax and electrics, gasoline will be around for a long time yet. Relying on Saudis and Russia to control the price of our oil is bullshit.

Also, apologies for getting way off topic.
That's essentially what the NEP was supposed to do. Unfortunately, Albertans opposed it and the Conservatives eliminated it, even though it would have given them 30 years ago everything that they are now asking for .
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  #50  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2019, 11:57 PM
blueandgoldguy blueandgoldguy is offline
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Will it though? I'm definitely not voting for Scheer (Trump wannabe authoritarian). I'm also definitely not voting for Trudeau. So who's left? This is a common theme among people I talk to. Just wait until the Liberals are re-elected.
So are you voting for the NDP or the Green Party, assuming there is anyone running in your area? Those are the only other options as far as I know.

Will there be an exception made for farmers with regards to the carbon tax. It is not so easy to change the habits of fuel consumption of certain occupations. Last I checked, there isn't a fuel efficient or electric alternative farm utilities. Same thing with trucks - pretty much a necessity for farmers.
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  #51  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2019, 12:13 AM
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Luckily there is a farm exemption that includes fuel used in tractors, trucks and machinery.
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  #52  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2019, 12:16 AM
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if ya'll believe in the free market so much why don't you think the market can create new technologies and fuel sources? is oil some sort of pillar of a free market that I missed in economics?
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  #53  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2019, 12:32 PM
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Oil drives everything in society. Without it everything stops and everyone starves.
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  #54  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2019, 12:41 PM
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The world has been ending for 30 over years.

https://www.apnews.com/bd45c372caf11...6PjTLiEGJVSNNg

All religions have to have a doomsday date to coerce compliance. Climate alarmism is no different.
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  #55  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2019, 2:53 PM
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if ya'll believe in the free market so much why don't you think the market can create new technologies and fuel sources? is oil some sort of pillar of a free market that I missed in economics?
cause its cheaper to stay the status quo then the spend money on new stuff
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  #56  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2019, 3:12 PM
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carbon tax discusions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
The world has been ending for 30 over years.

https://www.apnews.com/bd45c372caf11...6PjTLiEGJVSNNg

All religions have to have a doomsday date to coerce compliance. Climate alarmism is no different.
I don’t LOL but that’s an LOL.
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  #57  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2019, 12:49 AM
blueandgoldguy blueandgoldguy is offline
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Oil drives everything in society. Without it everything stops and everyone starves.
Let's not exaggerate. Humans have managed without oil for all but its last 150 years. Of course, if oil were to disappear there would be an adjustment period with a drop in quality of life and a population correction. We would likely be left with a world wide population of 1/6 - 1/2 of the current number for the forseeable future until technology improved to the point at which we could produce most or all of our transportation, shelter, food through alternative means.
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  #58  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2019, 12:50 AM
blueandgoldguy blueandgoldguy is offline
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Luckily there is a farm exemption that includes fuel used in tractors, trucks and machinery.
Good to hear.
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  #59  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2019, 4:52 PM
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Let's not exaggerate. Humans have managed without oil for all but its last 150 years. Of course, if oil were to disappear there would be an adjustment period with a drop in quality of life and a population correction. We would likely be left with a world wide population of 1/6 - 1/2 of the current number for the forseeable future until technology improved to the point at which we could produce most or all of our transportation, shelter, food through alternative means.
I doubt oil will simply "disappear", but I dearly hope it goes the way of coal, getting replaced with newer (and cleaner) energy sources and becoming a peripheral industry. Remember, change in everything is inevitable. There is no guarantee that oil will be a revenue cash cow forever and ever and ever. If politicians in oil-rich jurisdictions are smart (!?!) they will start to diversify their economies while the $$ is still coming in.
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  #60  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2019, 6:38 PM
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Thanks for removing these discussions from actual construction threads even if the title is strangely not capitalized.
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