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View Poll Results: Should Portage and Main be open for pedestrian traffic?
Yes 113 92.62%
No 9 7.38%
Voters: 122. You may not vote on this poll

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  #81  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2018, 9:19 PM
buzzg buzzg is offline
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Originally Posted by Authentic_City View Post
And the debate just keeps descending to new depths. The Free Press is reporting that the Manitoba Trucking Association is opposed to reopening Portage and Main. Because of safety concerns, no less.

First of all, their argument about safety is absurd. Heavy trucks going though downtown have to navigate dozens of intersections with pedestrian crossings, what make P&M so different? And good lord, why on earth would we prioritize heavy truck traffic through the middle of downtown over pedestrians? This is further confirmation that many folks view Portage and Main as nothing more than an expressway interchange in the heart of the city.

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/lo...490764971.html
If they're that concerned about safety we should just ban trucks from Main. There's lots of people crossing at McDermot, so let's keep that corner "safe" too!!!!

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Originally Posted by Wolf13 View Post
No roundabout...

Winnipeggers don't know how to operate or when to signal within a quiet suburban roundabout... never mind P+M.
Roundabouts everywhere! People will figure it out.
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  #82  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2018, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Authentic_City View Post
And the debate just keeps descending to new depths. The Free Press is reporting that the Manitoba Trucking Association is opposed to reopening Portage and Main. Because of safety concerns, no less.

First of all, their argument about safety is absurd. Heavy trucks going though downtown have to navigate dozens of intersections with pedestrian crossings, what make P&M so different? And good lord, why on earth would we prioritize heavy truck traffic through the middle of downtown over pedestrians? This is further confirmation that many folks view Portage and Main as nothing more than an expressway interchange in the heart of the city.

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/lo...490764971.html
MTA guy was also complaining that there's no alternate routes, this seems to be one of the most common logical fallacies used by TeamClosed - to treat it as if it's mutually exclusive, like it's either gotta be traffic that goes through P&M or pedestrians, but not both. Therefore allowing pedestrians is somehow treated like you're closing the intersection off to traffic altogether. It's going to add 52 seconds or whatever. Trucks can still use Main. Life goes on. Jesus.
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  #83  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2018, 4:04 AM
Bluenote Bluenote is offline
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To be honest. If you all stopped talking about it. This includes Bowman and anyone he else. It would have been done and finished by now. As in opened. But the more you all complains about wanting it open. The more you involve THe suburbs. Had they not really known. Project would have been finished. You guys are your own worst enemy.
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  #84  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2018, 5:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote View Post
To be honest. If you all stopped talking about it. This includes Bowman and anyone he else. It would have been done and finished by now. As in opened. But the more you all complains about wanting it open. The more you involve THe suburbs. Had they not really known. Project would have been finished. You guys are your own worst enemy.
It's funny you brought it up, since I've seen some comments on Facebook and Twitter that some of those people who are wanting it to remain closed are the ones living in St. Andrews, or West St. Paul, or even Stony Mountain.

Like, what matter do they have to say if they don't even live in the city, and only drive through that intersection maybe once a week, let alone once a month?

The audacity of these people...

EDIT:

To add, you are right though. We have become a victim of our own success if you will. Bowman started it as a political campaign to open it up. When the discussion became deeper throughout his tenure, opponents began to "stir the pot" as you will by arguing to keep it closed.

Had Bowman not mentioned to open up P&M, in hindsight, he could have introduced that motion into council, let's say 2 years ago, and maybe the outcome or the handle of this topic may have come out differently. Maybe not.

Last edited by The Jabroni; Aug 15, 2018 at 5:33 AM.
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  #85  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2018, 2:22 PM
The Unknown Poster The Unknown Poster is offline
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I see a lot of contradictory arguments by the "Closed" side. One of my favorites is "there will be gridlock, cars wont move." And "Pedestrians will be mowed down left and right."

Its like Winnipeg has no pedestrian crossings at all and we're debating the very first one or something.
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  #86  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2018, 3:15 PM
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Unfortunately Bowman's dithering and backtracking have put this issue in a situation where it could very well be stopped because of a referendum vote.
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  #87  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2018, 3:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unknown Poster View Post
Its like Winnipeg has no pedestrian crossings at all and we're debating the very first one or something.
^^^That made me laugh.
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  #88  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2018, 4:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unknown Poster View Post
I see a lot of contradictory arguments by the "Closed" side. One of my favorites is "there will be gridlock, cars wont move." And "Pedestrians will be mowed down left and right."

Its like Winnipeg has no pedestrian crossings at all and we're debating the very first one or something.
I saw someone complain that the latest livability index for cities didn't include "commute times"

Because the only part of life that matters is the time you spend in your car driving to/from work...

Quality and number of jobs doesn't matter, no no... It's all about that sweet sweet ride to work!
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  #89  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2018, 4:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unknown Poster View Post
I see a lot of contradictory arguments by the "Closed" side. One of my favorites is "there will be gridlock, cars wont move." And "Pedestrians will be mowed down left and right."

Its like Winnipeg has no pedestrian crossings at all and we're debating the very first one or something.
"This is a waste of money because there's nothing to walk to at P&M" / "Pedestrians crossing the street will cause gridlock" is still one of my all-time favourite contradictions.
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  #90  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2018, 5:37 PM
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Originally Posted by wardlow View Post
"This is a waste of money because there's nothing to walk to at P&M" / "Pedestrians crossing the street will cause gridlock" is still one of my all-time favourite contradictions.
Gratuitous numbers of vehicles cause gridlock...
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  #91  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2018, 6:57 PM
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VoteOpen group has a gofundme page for those interested:

https://www.gofundme.com/VoteOpen
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  #92  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2018, 7:38 PM
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  #93  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2018, 9:05 PM
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I’m team open but I find it disgusting to do a public fundraising campaign to fund a public awareness campaign for a public sector/government project. Think it could come back to bite them. Extremely tone deaf, especially when a lot of the “no” argument is (incorrectly) the money opening will cost.
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  #94  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2018, 10:13 PM
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How would you suggest it be funded?
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  #95  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2018, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by buzzg View Post
I’m team open but I find it disgusting to do a public fundraising campaign to fund a public awareness campaign for a public sector/government project. Think it could come back to bite them. Extremely tone deaf, especially when a lot of the “no” argument is (incorrectly) the money opening will cost.
ohoh... buzzg's account has been hacked by Russian's and is spouting off utter nonsense to distract from the actual campaign.

only a Russian bot would be THIS confused by how politics works in the west................................
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  #96  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2018, 12:27 AM
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I would suggest a lot of the downtown businesses and agencies that have a vested interest or support opening chip in. And it doesn’t have to even be with money, but they can use their voices and networks.

I’ll cede maybe “disgusting” was a bit strong, but it just seems off to me.
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  #97  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2018, 3:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzg View Post
I would suggest a lot of the downtown businesses and agencies that have a vested interest or support opening chip in. And it doesn’t have to even be with money, but they can use their voices and networks.

I’ll cede maybe “disgusting” was a bit strong, but it just seems off to me.
All winnipeggers have a vested interest. I don’t see the difference between donations from ordinary people who care or businesses that do. Businesses are free to donate as well.

It takes money to run any kind of campaign. Like it or not.
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  #98  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2018, 2:08 PM
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If someone makes a personal choice to put their $$ behind a particular public policy issue, that's really their business. I think it makes a lot of sense. What is odd is that the city decided to have a referendum with no rules for yes and no campaigns, fundraising and so on. Braindead.
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  #99  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2018, 3:28 PM
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Originally Posted by trueviking View Post
All winnipeggers have a vested interest. I don’t see the difference between donations from ordinary people who care or businesses that do. Businesses are free to donate as well.

It takes money to run any kind of campaign. Like it or not.
Ya fair. I’m convinced. Guess we’re just not used to this kind of thing here, so it through me off a bit.
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  #100  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2018, 4:19 PM
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^its totally bizarre there are no rules....I agree with you. It is weird.
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