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  #141  
Old Posted May 21, 2019, 9:32 PM
Danny D Oh Danny D Oh is offline
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Originally Posted by CoryB View Post
From a pure BBB Inc (aka IG Field) perspective there are hard costs to running an event. You need to staff the gates, concessions, security etc. You need to prep food that cannot be saved for sale. There are electrical costs to pay too. From those perspectives it doesn't always make sense to have "any" event just to fill a date on the calendar.


Those costs are peanuts (pun not intended). The vast majority of the costs to operating the stadium are fixed and bringing in revenue is huge.

If 500 people start showing up for VFC games then those costs you mention start to matter.
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  #142  
Old Posted May 22, 2019, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoryB View Post
From a pure BBB Inc (aka IG Field) perspective there are hard costs to running an event. You need to staff the gates, concessions, security etc. You need to prep food that cannot be saved for sale. There are electrical costs to pay too. From those perspectives it doesn't always make sense to have "any" event just to fill a date on the calendar.
Absolutely, which is why I qualified my post with slight loss, especially if it's only in the short term. Bombers can go to their board during their annual report and say something like the days that IGF was used this year for events increased by 66% or some such number. There's a way to sell it even if the stadium is only holding 4K for some soccer matches. In the end it's not a difficult argument to make that they've gotten into the soccer business in part to fill dates at the stadium.

At TD, OSEG simply opens fewer concessions, staffs fewer ushers, fewer security, etc. for smaller events. There are ways to mitigate losses for variable crowd sizes.
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  #143  
Old Posted May 22, 2019, 3:22 PM
CoryB CoryB is offline
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^^ Except the "Winnipeg Football Club" board (aka Bombers) is not directly responsible for IG Field so on general principle they are going to care less about "filling event days" and more the profit/loss position of the teams themselves.

IG Field is operated by a separate board BBB Inc (or similar). It is a board that is a partnership between the Blue Bombers and the Bisons.

Yes, they muddied things in that way. And yes, the Bombers are the primary tenant and heavily benefit/suffer based on the overall operating position of IG Field.

..

As an aside I thing the Winnipeg Football Club name is paying off a little with owning the Valour as "soccer" is commonly known as football outside English speaking North America.
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  #144  
Old Posted May 22, 2019, 3:37 PM
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^ Now that you mention it, Winnipeg Football Club is a good double-barrelled formal name for both the Bombers and Valour

But anyway, even though the stadium is owned by BBB, the Bombers have on numerous occasions made the connection between stadium event dates and overall team profitability. I'm not sure exactly how the arrangement is structured, but it appears to be the Bombers (and not the Bisons) who making money from additional events like the FIFA Women's World Cup, Heritage Classic, major concerts or what have you. I suspect it would be the same way for Valour.

(And speaking of special events at IG Field, I wonder if the Packers/Raiders game is still going ahead? It's now less than 3 months away...)
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  #145  
Old Posted May 22, 2019, 4:10 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
^ Now that you mention it, Winnipeg Football Club is a good double-barrelled formal name for both the Bombers and Valour

But anyway, even though the stadium is owned by BBB, the Bombers have on numerous occasions made the connection between stadium event dates and overall team profitability. I'm not sure exactly how the arrangement is structured, but it appears to be the Bombers (and not the Bisons) who making money from additional events like the FIFA Women's World Cup, Heritage Classic, major concerts or what have you. I suspect it would be the same way for Valour.

(And speaking of special events at IG Field, I wonder if the Packers/Raiders game is still going ahead? It's now less than 3 months away...)
It's explicitly connected in the team's annual report:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winnipeg Blue Bombers Annual Report, 2018
The Winnipeg Football Club had another solid financial year in 2018. As was expected in our planning, the strong financial success achieved in 2017, from hosting a number of significant events including Canada Soccer’s Women’s National team for a match against Costa Rica, Nitro Circus, the 2017 Canada Summer Games closing ceremonies, and a Guns N’ Roses concert, was not expected to be achieved again in 2018. Also, while the Bombers once again advanced to the CFL playoffs, we did not financially benefit from hosting a playoff game in Winnipeg in 2018.
Also mentioned in the Bombers' revenue breakdown:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winnipeg Blue Bombers Annual Report, 2018
Total revenue in 2018was $33.4 million, an increase of $970,000 (2.9%) over last year. Winnipeg Football Club revenue increased by $3.9 million (32.8%) as the Club brought the food & beverage operations at Investors Group Field internal to our operations in 2018, not only improving the game day experience but also earning 100% of the revenues less the associated costs. Corporate partnership revenue grew by over 15% from 2017 thanks to the strong local support from Bomber fans and the corporate partners, a demonstration of outstanding community support that the Club greatly appreciates. There were also offsetting decreases to revenue as a result of less Bomber home games and special events at Investors Group Field. Game revenue decreased by $1.4 million (-10.5%) as the Club did not host a home playoff game in 2018, and also due to stadium management revenue which was down $1.8M in comparison to 2017
Emphasis added mine.

And in expenses:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winnipeg Blue Bombers Annual Report, 2018
Total operating expenses in 2018 were $30.8 million, an increase of $3.4 million (12.4%) over 2017. Football operations expenses increased by $470,000 (3.9%) as a result of our success in playing in both the Western Semi-Final and Western Final playoff games. There were also expected increases in expenditures in marketing, administration and game day expenses
associated with bringing food and beverage into the Club’s internal operations. There was also a decrease to overall stadium occupancy costs of $830,000 (-13.1%) as a result of fewer non-football events at Investors Group Field.
Emphasis added mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoryB
^^ Except the "Winnipeg Football Club" board (aka Bombers) is not directly responsible for IG Field so on general principle they are going to care less about "filling event days" and more the profit/loss position of the teams themselves.
From the Bombers Annual Report:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winnipeg Blue Bombers Annual Report, 2018
Triple B’s purpose is to develop, construct and own a stadium on leased land at the University of Manitoba, for use by the Winnipeg Blue Bomber football team and the University of Manitoba Bisons football team and for the use of amateur athletics and other public purposes. Under the terms of the Management Agreement, the Club will manage and operate the stadium in exchange for primary access to the facilities.

The Management Agreement requires the Club to establish its own Operating Reserve by way of annual allocations of up to $500,000, until the reserve reaches a maximum of $5,000,000. The Club maintained an Operating Reserve balance of $3,595,000 as at December 31, 2018 (2017: $3,095,000). The Management Agreement also requires the Club to maintain Required Working Capital each year. The Required Working Capital balance was $6,085,000 as at December 31, 2018 (2017: $6,950,000) which includes $1,756,789 (2017: $2,521,613) due to Triple B. Under the terms of the Management Agreement the Club is also required to use its best efforts to generate sufficient Excess Cash as defined in the Management Agreement, and collect entertainment tax and facility fees to meet the following payments.
Emphasis added mine.

Annual Report (2018): https://d3ham790trbkqy.cloudfront.ne...ual-Report.pdf

Essentially, more events at the stadium = more revenue for Bombers, even if it's indirect and even if effectively funneled through Triple B Stadium Inc.. Triple B technically owns the stadium but the Bombers manage and operate. The profit/loss of the teams is tied-into the stadium and that would include the $170,000 loan paid to Valour last year. Muddied is definitely the word to use when discussing the connections between the teams and the stadium.
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  #146  
Old Posted May 22, 2019, 4:24 PM
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^ There we have it. Thanks for the breakdown.
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  #147  
Old Posted May 22, 2019, 5:02 PM
Danny D Oh Danny D Oh is offline
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It's actually almost the same agreement that exists anywhere. Pretty rare for teams to own their stadium given the public dollars put in, usually some kind of entity created to own it and then teams have operating agreement.

Essentially the Bombers(including stadium operation) first $2 million or so in revenue goes to the operating agreement. More dates=more revenue generated, really they need a concert or big event every year to do that. The NFL preseason game this year might do it.
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  #148  
Old Posted May 23, 2019, 10:44 PM
blueandgoldguy blueandgoldguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
^ Now that you mention it, Winnipeg Football Club is a good double-barrelled formal name for both the Bombers and Valour

But anyway, even though the stadium is owned by BBB, the Bombers have on numerous occasions made the connection between stadium event dates and overall team profitability. I'm not sure exactly how the arrangement is structured, but it appears to be the Bombers (and not the Bisons) who making money from additional events like the FIFA Women's World Cup, Heritage Classic, major concerts or what have you. I suspect it would be the same way for Valour.

(And speaking of special events at IG Field, I wonder if the Packers/Raiders game is still going ahead? It's now less than 3 months away...)
Well it's listed as the host stadium for the 2019 Oakland Raiders scheduled game against the Packers so it must be true.

Edit: Wikipedia

Last edited by blueandgoldguy; May 24, 2019 at 11:47 PM. Reason: Didn't say which location
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  #149  
Old Posted May 24, 2019, 2:20 PM
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Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy View Post
Well it's listed as the host stadium for the 2019 Oakland Raiders scheduled game against the Packers so it must be true.
Where? On the Raiders website it just says the location for the game is TBD.
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  #150  
Old Posted May 24, 2019, 11:47 PM
blueandgoldguy blueandgoldguy is offline
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
Where? On the Raiders website it just says the location for the game is TBD.
Forgot to put in that it is listed on Wikipedia under the Raiders 2019 season.
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  #151  
Old Posted May 25, 2019, 1:49 AM
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Revenue is not profit.
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  #152  
Old Posted May 25, 2019, 10:42 PM
blueandgoldguy blueandgoldguy is offline
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Originally Posted by buzzg View Post
Revenue is not profit.
You don't say.
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  #153  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2019, 10:47 PM
blueandgoldguy blueandgoldguy is offline
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Who the hell hired Gale? Wade Miller? Someone else? Losing 8-0 at home is a complete joke. Management and recruitment of players on the team looks like a complete joke. Worst team in the league over summer/fall schedule which is inexcusable given their head start on most other teams. Might as well have a housecleaning at season's end.
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  #154  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2019, 2:53 AM
BlubberMiley BlubberMiley is offline
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Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy View Post
Who the hell hired Gale? Wade Miller? Someone else? Losing 8-0 at home is a complete joke. Management and recruitment of players on the team looks like a complete joke. Worst team in the league over summer/fall schedule which is inexcusable given their head start on most other teams. Might as well have a housecleaning at season's end.
8-0 is a annihilation.

It reminds me of when Germany destroyed Brazil in 2014.
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