HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Atlantic Provinces > St. John's


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2018, 3:37 PM
djslue djslue is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 60
[St. John's] Sports & Entertainment

I felt like this aspect of news was missing from the page
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2018, 3:38 PM
djslue djslue is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 60
It's a done deal: St. John's to join ECHL beginning next season

Expansion team will have an affiliation with the Toronto Maple Leafs; quality of play is "very, very good" says league commissioner
After 20 years of American Hockey League play in St. John’s, sandwiched by three seasons in which the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League featured a team in the province’s capital, the city is now branching out into a new level of minor professional hockey — the ECHL.

The league made official Tuesday what’s been known for some time, that St. John’s will ice an expansion team in the ECHL beginning play next season.

“St. John’s has had a long, successful tradition of hockey,” league commissioner Brian McKenna told The Telegram. “It has a solid fan base, solid corporate support and an ideal arena.

“On top of that, Dean (MacDonald) is a very qualified owner, and the icing on the cake of us is Glenn Stanford, giving his background in hockey. We certainly know him from Boise (where Stanford ran an ECHL team in Idaho for two years). He brings a lot of credibility.”

The yet-to-be named St. John’s team will play, as reported in The Telegram Monday, in the Eastern Conference’s North Division with the Adirondack Thunder, Brampton Beast, Maine Mariners, Manchester Monarchs, Reading Royals and Worcester Railers.

St. John’s will also be affiliated with the Toronto Maple Leafs, which was first reported in The Telegram back in January.


The city will be the ninth former AHL team to join the ECHL — which touts itself as North America’s premier AA hockey league — joining Adirondack, Maine, Manchester, Worcester, Norfolk, Va., Cincinnati, Ohio, Indianapolis, Ind. and Salt Lake City, Utah.

There would have been a 10th, but the Quad City Mallards (Moline, Ill.) have indicated they are withdrawing their ECHL membership at the conclusion of the current season.

The Colorado Eagles are also not returning next season as they will be moving to the AHL to become the chief affiliate of the NHL’s Colorado Avalanche. The Eagles play out of Loveland, Co., just north of Denver.

McKenna said Stanford and MacDonald made an “impressive” presentation to the ECHL’s board of governors during the league’s all-star weekend in January in Indianapolis, Ind.

The vote to accept St. John’s, he said, was unanimous.

Just as it did in the AHL, St. John’s will have to provide a travel subsidy to teams visiting Newfoundland.

The team will be owned by Deacon Sports and Entertainment, an entity controlled by MacDonald, with Stanford overseeing the operations.

“Both Glenn and I are ecstatic that professional hockey is coming back to St. John’s,” MacDonald said in a statement. “We believe that hockey fans in our city will welcome this great product.”

MacDonald and Stanford will be working with Irwin Simon and Rob Sabbagh, owners of the National Basketball League of Canada’s St. John’s Edge.

Simon and Sabbagh envision taking over management of Mile One Centre and the St. John’s Convention Centre, a development which could take place in the next 12 to 18 months.

“We are excited about being part of the St. John’s community with the success of The Edge basketball team,” Sabbagh said in a news release. “We are equally excited to now play a role in the new hockey team and ultimately running Mile One and the Convention Centre.”

“This,” McKenna told The Telegram, “is now a St. John’s team with local ownership. It’s not going someplace else.

“This is a community asset which will have control of the product on the ice. Local ownership brings stability.”

The St. John’s Maple Leafs, which operated in St. John’s for 14 years, were owned by the Toronto Maple Leafs. In the start of what’s been a trend with NHL teams and their AHL affiliates, Toronto opted to move the Baby Leafs closer to home, in this case the Ricoh Centre in Toronto.

The same scenario applied to the Winnipeg Jets, who for four years owned the IceCaps. They moved their minor league operation to Winnipeg, and the Montreal Canadiens, who farmed their players to the IceCaps the past two years, now have their AHLers playing in Laval, Que., just north of Montreal where the Canadiens constructed and own the arena.

McKenna had hoped to put to bed the St. John’s deal in January. As a result, the league’s schedule for the following season, which is usually announced by early April, is likely to be delayed by a few weeks due to the developments in St. John's and Quad City.

MacDonald and Stanford went through the process of acquiring an expansion franchise in December. All criteria were met, with the exception of one item: an arena lease agreement.

Simon and Sabbagh, through a clause in their lease agreement with Mile One Centre, had first dibs, if you will, for a hockey team to play at Mile One.

After St. John’s Sports and Entertainment — the board which runs Mile One — ruled Simon and Sabbagh had lost the exclusive rights to bring hockey into the building, the Edge group announced it would be seeking arbitration.

And given that move, SJSE said it would not negotiate with MacDonald and Stanford while the arbitration process was ongoing, causing the delay.

Basically, what you had was one group with a hockey team, but nowhere to play, and another group with an arena, but no hockey team.

Given that scenario, the competitors came together just over a week ago, agreeing to some form of partnership.

“This strong partnership,” MacDonald said, “will elevate professional sports in Newfoundland and provide many nights of action-packed entertainment for the community.”

As with the AHL, the ECHL — that is its official name since 2003, when it was previously known as the East Coast Hockey League — has two conferences and four divisions.

Teams in the Eastern Conference’s South Division are the Atlanta Gladiators, Florida Everblades, Greenville Swamp Rabbits, Jacksonville Icemen, Norfolk Admirals, Orlando Solar Bears and South Carolina Stingrays.

The Central Division in the Western Conference feature the Cincinnati Cyclones, Fort Wayne Komets, Indy Fuel, Kalamazoo Wings, Toledo Walleye and Wheeling Nailers, while the Mountain Division have the Allen, Tx. Americans, Idaho Steelheads, Kansas City Mavericks, Rapid City, S.D. Rush, Tulsa Oilers, Utah Grizzlies and Wichita Thunder.

Generally, teams play within their own division and conference, although McKenna said there are interlocking games between East and West teams scheduled every year.

And teams in the far east — for example Manchester — play teams in the far west — say Utah or Idaho — at least every three years.

“Fans tell us a little variety is good,” he said.

To most Newfoundland hockey fans, the ECHL is an unknown entity, though McKenna, who was once director of hockey operations for the Ottawa Senators and vice-president and general manager of the AHL’s Carolina Monarchs, promises hockey fans will be pleasantly surprised.

About one-half of the ECHL players, on any given year, will play in the AHL.

“There’s a lot of movement back and forth,” he said.

“You won’t see the high-end draft picks, unless they’re a goalie, but the quality of play is still very, very good.

“Not all kids are drafted out of Canadian major junior or U.S. college hockey, and of those that are drafted, not all will sign contracts. We are seeing some of the better kids from the Canadian Hockey League and NCAA D1 college playing in the ECHL.

“It’s a caliber of hockey people will grow to appreciate. There will be an education process that will have to occur as fans come to know who we are and what we are about.

“We’ve gone through this in Worcester, which was a long-time AHL market and people there have embraced the ECHL.”

There’s a lot of work that needs to be done before the team hits the ice next October. No doubt, fans will be keenly interested in what the team will be named, and its logo and colours. A schedule has to be drawn up, and the team needs to sell tickets.

A web site is expected to launched next week.

Most importantly, there needs to be a team. It’s expected the roster will be filled out by a combination of free agents and players assigned to St. John’s by the Leafs.

Toronto will have a big say in who will be hired to coach the team, along with the training and equipment staff.

Source: http://www.thetelegram.com/sports/ho...season-193190/
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2018, 3:40 PM
djslue djslue is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 60
Mile One management 'one of the carrots' to get deal between ECHL, Edge owners

Mile One Centre operations could soon be headed up by the Edge ownership team and the group bringing an ECHL franchise to St. John's

Dean MacDonald, who's with Deacon Investments, the owner of the ECHL franchise, told the St. John's Morning Show on Wednesday that running Mile One was discussed as a way to bring his group together with Edge ownership — which had been working on its own hockey team proposal.

'Collectively, we bring a lot of horsepower to bring really top-notch entertainment into the city in terms of concerts and other acts.'
- Dean MacDonald
"We're going to work with the Edge group in [that] regard," he said, adding that St. John's Mayor Danny Breen encouraged the idea.

Mile One and the city's convention centre are currently run by the city's St. John's Sports and Entertainment.

"The mayor, you know, worked hard to get the two sides together, and that was kind of one of the carrots he put out there that, look, if we could find a way to work together as two groups, the city would definitely consider having the two groups manage the facility," MacDonald said.

Danny Breen
Mayor Danny Breen says the two sports groups have a memorandum of understanding to manage Mile One and the convention centre, and details are being worked out. (Jeremy Eaton/CBC)

The Edge ownership group, led by Irwin Simon, and the ECHL group each bring a lot to the table in event management experience and connections, according to MacDonald.

"We have an extensive relationship with Live Nation and Ticketmaster and other groups, and the Simon group have a good relationship with Madison Square Garden," he said.

Lot of work to get ready
"We obviously have the relationship with Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment so those groups, collectively, we bring a lot of horsepower to bring really top-notch entertainment into the city in terms of concerts and other acts."

The details of how that would work are still being ironed out, said MacDonald. In the meantime, there's a lot of work to be done to have the team ready for the 2018-19 season — not least of which is deciding on a name.

Ice at Mile One Centre
Hockey is returning to Mile One Centre in downtown St. John's in the fall. (Jeremy Eaton/CBC)

"We've got to go hard to get everything organized and ready, so name will be the very next thing on the list and hopefully by later this week or weekend, hopefully, we'll be in a position to have that nailed down," he said.

MacDonald is working with former St. John's IceCaps chief operating officer Glenn Stanford, who helped get the Edge ready for its first season this year.

"We've got to get team colors, and the pattern for the uniforms and all the things that go with the logo, all those matters that have to be put together now," he said.

"So there's a lot of work to be done in a short period of time, but, you know, Glenn was instrumental in getting the Edge up and running in a matter of weeks, so he probably feels like this is a much easier task, even though it's not."

Source: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfou...ions-1.4575503
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4  
Old Posted May 22, 2018, 3:05 PM
djslue djslue is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 60
The new ECHL team for the city is known as the Newfoundland Growlers.



http://www.nlgrowlers.com/
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2018, 1:50 PM
goodgrowth goodgrowth is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 440
Edge/Growlers ownership group interested in purchasing Mile One Centre:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfo...lers-1.4856210
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2019, 6:40 PM
Marty_Mcfly's Avatar
Marty_Mcfly Marty_Mcfly is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: St. John's, NL
Posts: 4,671
Quote:
Simon says Cape Breton among options for Edge if he can't get the lease deal he wants in St. John's

Team owner says his priority is to have basketball franchise operating out of Mile One, but says alternatives exist elsewhere

ST. JOHN'S, N.L. — Last week, the National Basketball League of Canada announced that two teams in the Maritimes — the Cape Breton Highlanders and Saint John Riptide — had been granted one-year sabbaticals to allow the franchises to stabilize financially.

The majority owner of the NBLC's St. John’s Edge says he is focused on getting a new lease deal at Mile One Centre for the team, but suggests those vacancies provide him with options should he be unable to get the agreement he says he desperately wants.

“My priority is to stay in St. John’s. I’d love to work out a lease, a long-term arrangement with the city. It’s my objective to get to that lease,” said Irwin Simon.

“We’ve had a great two years. We led the league in attendance, but we still lose money.

“With the product we put on, Cape Breton would love me to come there. Saint John, N.B., doesn’t have a team now. They’d love me to come there. There are other places.

“But we want to stay in St. John’s. It is every bit of my intention to stay there and work something out.”

Simon’s comments came after Dean MacDonald, primary owner of the ECHL’s Newfoundland Growlers, the other professional sports tenant at Mile One, blasted the City of St. John’s and St. John’s Sports and Entertainment, which runs the facility on behalf of the city, for what he says is a lease offer that calls for a 65 per cent increase in what the two sports teams would pay SJSE next season.

The city responded saying the terms of the proposal were similar to those of the agreements in place last season and urged the teams to return to negotiations, but MacDonald said he is convinced SJSE would prefer not to have the teams there.

When asked if that was the sense that he had gained during the most recent talks, Simon answered “I’m going to be diplomatic here. But if we don’t get a lease, if it doesn’t work out, I’ll have a different opinion.

"Go back to when there were no team and it was dark nights (at Mile One,” he added. “When the lights aren’t on, are they really saving money? And ask the George Street business people and downtown businesses about what it means there is a game at Mile One, about how important that we are there.

“Having anchor teams is very, very important. It’s no different than a mall needing anchor tenants.”

“Every night, you know you’re going to get anywhere from 3,000 to 3,800 at our games, sometimes more. It’s got to be important they can count on attendance like that.”

Just a few months ago, the expectation was that the Edge and Growlers would take over management of Mile One, a plan outlined in a memorandum of understanding (MOU) between the city/SJSE and the teams. But the city announced earlier this summer that it would be no longer pursuing that option.

“I think there is some confusion that if there is no MOU, where do we go?’ suggested Simon.

“But I think it’s clear that not having these sports teams there wouldn’t be a good thing.”

Simon said he expects the 2019-20 NBL Canada season to begin late November or early December and he agreed the Edge, who have not yet signed any players or hired a permanent coach, “had a lot of work to do,” to ready themselves for a new campaign. However, he made it clear that he was less inclined to engage in such preparatory work without the lease agreement guaranteeing him that he would have a place to play in St. John’s.

Whatever happens, he says he is determined to remain part of the NBL Canada, which he says can be successful despite its recent woes.

“The league is going to come back solid,” he said. “There is demand for a Montreal team and Ottawa team.
“If it is not St. John’s, there are absolutely other options for us,” added Simon, a Glace Bay, N.S., native who is also owner of the Cape Breton Eagles of the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League.

“It would be very easy for me to pick up and go to Cape Breton and use one infrastructure (for both the Eagles and basketball team). And I’d be welcomed with open arms.

“But I’ll say it one more time. That’s not what I’m trying to do. That’s not what I want to do. What I want is to stay in St. John’s.”
https://www.thetelegram.com/sports/l...-johns-348245/

Trouble for the Edge and Growlers. SJSE doing their best to fuck themselves again.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2019, 7:38 PM
Horsell's Avatar
Horsell Horsell is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 587
According to another article in the Telegram over the weekend there appears to be some thought within SJSE that it is better to have an empty building because they seem to lose money every time they open the doors. Sad.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2019, 8:05 PM
Engibeer's Avatar
Engibeer Engibeer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: YYT/YYC
Posts: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsell View Post
According to another article in the Telegram over the weekend there appears to be some thought within SJSE that it is better to have an empty building because they seem to lose money every time they open the doors. Sad.
Probably this one with comments from SJSE CEO Sheena McCrate which references comments she had made in a NB newspaper.

Quote:
Now, much of what’s attributed to McCrate was paraphrased and the full interview with her is not available, but the story leaves the impression McCrate believes “anchor” tenants can be problematic.

Here are excerpts from the story in The Telegraph Journal.

(McCrate says) that ‘home run’ events buoy facility costs in a way sport teams don’t. The trouble is, she said, “There’s this political position where we didn’t build this for two Bryan Adams concerts in July.”

McCrate said arenas like Mile One and Harbour Station were built as multi-purpose facilities, but are run as hockey rinks.
“We deal with that every year,” she said, noting that ice rentals make more financial sense, but are limited because the ice time is eaten up by the “anchor tenant.”

“It’s a delicate balance of operating a professional sports team that comes with certain entitlement and privilege, and we don’t really live up to being a multi-use public facility.”

Still, McCrate wonders if the desire for hockey is waning, given the ready access to a whole world of sport now available from your home. She suggested arenas like Mile One and Harbour Station tend to be operated by male hockey fans. Adding diversity into the mix would be “immeasurable,” she said.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2019, 11:21 PM
Marty_Mcfly's Avatar
Marty_Mcfly Marty_Mcfly is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: St. John's, NL
Posts: 4,671
When a tenant can get butts into seats 2-3 times a week, that's much better than the few paltry concerts a year. SJSE can look to the years without an anchor tenant at Mile One and see exactly how much the tax payer had to front to keep the doors open.

It's a hockey arena, case closed. If you think you'd be better off with an empty building, maybe you're in the wrong role.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2019, 3:41 PM
djslue djslue is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 60
Growlers are bringing back the St. John's Maple Leafs jerseys



https://shop.nlgrowlers.com/
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #11  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2019, 2:26 PM
Engibeer's Avatar
Engibeer Engibeer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: YYT/YYC
Posts: 99
Another article about how these sports teams are losing the city money and how the city has made a historical low offer to the teams for renting the stadium on game nights.

(I still can't see the Growlers/Edge staying to be honest).

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfo...ers-1.5284871#
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2019, 3:13 PM
J_Murphy's Avatar
J_Murphy J_Murphy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: St. John's, NL
Posts: 1,241
Quote:
Originally Posted by Engibeer View Post
Another article about how these sports teams are losing the city money and how the city has made a historical low offer to the teams for renting the stadium on game nights.

(I still can't see the Growlers/Edge staying to be honest).

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfo...ers-1.5284871#
Current press release from the City:
http://stjohns.ca/media-release/coun...s-sports-teams
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2019, 4:29 PM
statbass statbass is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: St. John's
Posts: 1,569
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Murphy View Post
Current press release from the City:
http://stjohns.ca/media-release/coun...s-sports-teams
It would be unfortunate to loose either of these teams, however the city can't keep taking a hit. The Growlers were middle of the pack in terms of attendance last year while the Edge had the highest. Unless the Growlers can somehow bump up their attendance numbers, both the city and the team will be at an impasse. Scheduling and cost of travel doesn't help out either. I haven't been to a Growlers game but my son and I have gone to a few Edge games. I found it to be very entertaining and very kid friendly. Hopefully something can be worked out here. With every sports team we loose it becomes increasing difficult to attract another.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2019, 4:39 PM
jjavman jjavman is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by statbass View Post
It would be unfortunate to loose either of these teams, however the city can't keep taking a hit. The Growlers were middle of the pack in terms of attendance last year while the Edge had the highest. Unless the Growlers can somehow bump up their attendance numbers, both the city and the team will be at an impasse. Scheduling and cost of travel doesn't help out either. I haven't been to a Growlers game but my son and I have gone to a few Edge games. I found it to be very entertaining and very kid friendly. Hopefully something can be worked out here. With every sports team we loose it becomes increasing difficult to attract another.
Someone on the CBC comments page, mentioned that most sports arenas in major Canadian cities, have corporate sponsorship. This includes Halifax's arena which is sponsored by Scotiabank. Maybe it's time for an oil company to step up and put their name on it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2019, 4:43 PM
NewfBC NewfBC is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 650
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjavman View Post
Someone on the CBC comments page, mentioned that most sports arenas in major Canadian cities, have corporate sponsorship. This includes Halifax's arena which is sponsored by Scotiabank. Maybe it's time for an oil company to step up and put their name on it.
The Mile One name is actually owned by the Williams family, used with permission. This was from several years ago, not sure what the current status is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mile_O...#Naming_rights

Ron.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2019, 4:49 PM
statbass statbass is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: St. John's
Posts: 1,569
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjavman View Post
Someone on the CBC comments page, mentioned that most sports arenas in major Canadian cities, have corporate sponsorship. This includes Halifax's arena which is sponsored by Scotiabank. Maybe it's time for an oil company to step up and put their name on it.
Corporate sponsorship would likely solve this issue. Oil companies have been dialing back on spending the past few years so I don't think you'll see Exxon Mobile or Chevron throwing their name up on Mile One any time soon. May be a bank/finance sponsor like Halifax has???
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2019, 6:55 PM
ec1983 ec1983 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Engibeer View Post
Another article about how these sports teams are losing the city money and how the city has made a historical low offer to the teams for renting the stadium on game nights.

(I still can't see the Growlers/Edge staying to be honest).

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfo...ers-1.5284871#
If The Growlers didn't make any money after winning the championship there is no way they will ever make money. The team is a private entity and Dean MacDonald hasn't shown the books publicly (as far as I am aware), I'm not convinced that they actually did lose the money he is claiming.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #18  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2019, 9:50 PM
jjavman jjavman is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by ec1983 View Post
If The Growlers didn't make any money after winning the championship there is no way they will ever make money. The team is a private entity and Dean MacDonald hasn't shown the books publicly (as far as I am aware), I'm not convinced that they actually did lose the money he is claiming.
Excellent comment, and cutbacks notwithstanding, who do you think has pulled the most money out of NL last 10 years; banks or oil companies?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #19  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2019, 11:41 PM
Crisisnf Crisisnf is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 32
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjavman View Post
Excellent comment, and cutbacks notwithstanding, who do you think has pulled the most money out of NL last 10 years; banks or oil companies?
Dollarama
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #20  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2019, 4:30 PM
statbass statbass is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: St. John's
Posts: 1,569
Deal with Growlers coming 'hopefully soon,' says St. John's mayor

Date: Sep 18, 2019
Source: CBC NL

Some positive news coming out of the city and Growlers lease agreements.

Quote:
All sides are at the table when it comes to trying to hammer out a lease agreement for the upcoming season between St. John's Sports and Entertainment, the Newfoundland Growlers and the St. John's Edge.

That's according to St. John's Mayor Danny Breen.

"We're still continuing negotiations, we're talking regularly and we're working towards a deal hopefully soon," said Breen on Wednesday morning.

So, exactly when might the dotted line be signed?

"No idea. We'll stay with it and we're still in discussions," Breen responded.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfo...reen-1.5288078
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Atlantic Provinces > St. John's
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 8:31 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.