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  #1681  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2019, 2:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Hecate View Post
You do realize Manitoba is a maritime province right? We have an ocean. Plastic pollution in our oceans is a huge problem to species all over our planet.
Yeah all that plastic coming up the Nelson River into Hudson's Bay is a huge problem!

It's not that plastic in the ocean isn't a huge concern but talking about it at a MB provincial leaders debate was plain nuts when there are other major provincial issues in this province!
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  #1682  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2019, 2:58 PM
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tax reform needs to happen indeed.

the proterty tax mill rate setup is a mess its hurting rural communities
another area of change that really needs to happen is water utilities and how the pub handles them
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  #1683  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2019, 3:02 PM
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tax reform needs to happen indeed.

the proterty tax mill rate setup is a mess its hurting rural communities
another area of change that really needs to happen is water utilities and how the pub handles them
Preaching to the choir here!
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  #1684  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2019, 3:11 AM
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tax reform needs to happen indeed.

the proterty tax mill rate setup is a mess its hurting rural communities
another area of change that really needs to happen is water utilities and how the pub handles them
Yeah you give a shit about this now that you own 50 houses.
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  #1685  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2019, 2:49 AM
BlubberMiley BlubberMiley is offline
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This has to be the most apathetic election in Manitoba History. I'm actually leaning towards Kinew. Too bad the NDP always screw things up. Palliser is out of touch with the common man.

I wish Brad Wall would move to this province, and save us.
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  #1686  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2019, 3:14 PM
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yeah you give a shit about this now that you own 50 houses.
2
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  #1687  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2019, 12:28 AM
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I saw this link TruViking posted on the main forum.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...nomy-1.5035319

Looks like Manitoba is predicted to have the lowest economic growth of all the provinces in 2020. Pallister and the conservatives are sure doing a great job of maximizing the economic potential of this province eh?

Did we ever finish last in economic growth under the NDP?
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  #1688  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2019, 3:14 AM
Danny D Oh Danny D Oh is offline
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Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy View Post
I saw this link TruViking posted on the main forum.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...nomy-1.5035319

Looks like Manitoba is predicted to have the lowest economic growth of all the provinces in 2020. Pallister and the conservatives are sure doing a great job of maximizing the economic potential of this province eh?

Did we ever finish last in economic growth under the NDP?
As much as everyone's butthole tightens at the thought of government debt, economic contraction and low growth is a well-known effect of cuts to core services and infrastructure like our province has undergone in the past 5 years or so. Yes the NDP were cutting like crazy too.

So not surprising, and I'd expect that trend to continue well into the mid-2020's at least.
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  #1689  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2019, 2:21 PM
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If economic growth is artificially propped up by deficits then all you're doing is disguising poor economic output and putting yourself in a deferred negative position. Our economic output has been extremely slow for decades, its just been masked in the past by large deficits creating artificially higher inflation numbers. The only solution is deregulation and an economic strategy that offers incentives for growth where wanted.
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  #1690  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2019, 2:27 PM
Winnipegger Winnipegger is offline
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Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy View Post
I saw this link TruViking posted on the main forum.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...nomy-1.5035319

Looks like Manitoba is predicted to have the lowest economic growth of all the provinces in 2020. Pallister and the conservatives are sure doing a great job of maximizing the economic potential of this province eh?

Did we ever finish last in economic growth under the NDP?
I think that some clarity on this needs to be provided: the CBC article specifically cites the latest Conference Board of Canada report. There are multiple agencies, ranging from Provincial Governments to the big banks that forecast economic growth by Province, and in general the Conference Board always has the most pessimistic projections for Manitoba. If you look at other reports by the Manitoba Bureau of Statistics, TD, CIBC, BMO, IHS Global Insight, etc., the average consensus forecast for Manitoba's GDP growth is 1.3% for 2019 to 2020 - much higher than the 0.9% projected by the Conference Board alone.

Moreover, the Conference Board cites wrapping up Manitoba Hydro investments as the reason for the slowdown, not that Manitoba's economy is going to do bad, per se. Because Manitoba has a "smaller" economy relative to Alberta, BC, Ontario, and Quebec, our economic forecasts are a lot more sensitive to changes in major infrastructure projects, and if our governments or crown corps don't announce projects far in advance, the forecasters have nothing to add in to their models. My guess is that the recent announcement by Vale to invest $1 billion in Thompson over the next few years (Manitoba's GDP is around $63 billion per year), which was made after the Conference Board released their data, will encourage them to revise their projection upwards slightly next update.

In short, don't read too much in to the Conference Board's forecasts.
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  #1691  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2019, 3:28 PM
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Also, we need to acknowledge that as much economic output is created by government spending, the spending can't go on ad infinitum. Eventually we'll face a day of reckoning. Best to actually try and stay in the black as much as possible to avoid negative consequences for future generations. I understand that from time to time we need government stimulus in harder economic times, but we also are the authors of our own misery as regards cuts to services. There's got to be a balance. After all, we don't want to be the Greece of Canada...
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  #1692  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2019, 3:39 PM
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Originally Posted by dmacc View Post
If economic growth is artificially propped up by deficits then all you're doing is disguising poor economic output and putting yourself in a deferred negative position. Our economic output has been extremely slow for decades, its just been masked in the past by large deficits creating artificially higher inflation numbers. The only solution is deregulation and an economic strategy that offers incentives for growth where wanted.
It was only the last couple of years that the NDP really went nuts with spending as they desperately tried to stay in power. Up until then our debt-to-GDP ratio and our economic growth was better than Ontario, QC and all of eastern Canada. So it was not entirely just propped up by deficits. Admittedly eastern Canada was sluggish at the time.

Deregulation as a was to stimulate economic growth only works in far-right theoretical dreamland. A better strategy would be strategic investment in high ROI areas like infrastructure & education.
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  #1693  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2019, 3:39 PM
Winnipegger Winnipegger is offline
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Originally Posted by optimusREIM View Post
Also, we need to acknowledge that as much economic output is created by government spending, the spending can't go on ad infinitum. Eventually we'll face a day of reckoning. Best to actually try and stay in the black as much as possible to avoid negative consequences for future generations. I understand that from time to time we need government stimulus in harder economic times, but we also are the authors of our own misery as regards cuts to services. There's got to be a balance. After all, we don't want to be the Greece of Canada...
While Manitoba's economic growth metrics can be significantly influenced by investments made by Manitoba Hydro (a crown corporation), Hydro's spending is not equivalent to government fiscal stimulus.

Manitoba Hydro's purpose is to invest in power generation infrastructure to meet current and future power requirements of the province, not provide fiscal stimulus at the behest of the Provincial Government. While Manitoba Hydro is a crown corporation, it engages in demand-driven expansion in a manner similar to any other power corporation, private or otherwise.
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  #1694  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2019, 6:07 PM
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While Manitoba's economic growth metrics can be significantly influenced by investments made by Manitoba Hydro (a crown corporation), Hydro's spending is not equivalent to government fiscal stimulus.

Manitoba Hydro's purpose is to invest in power generation infrastructure to meet current and future power requirements of the province, not provide fiscal stimulus at the behest of the Provincial Government. While Manitoba Hydro is a crown corporation, it engages in demand-driven expansion in a manner similar to any other power corporation, private or otherwise.
I wasn't really referring to Hydro in any way, despite thinking that it ought to be better managed. My contention is that the government does have to be financially responsible at some point. Cuts are never popular. No one's going to lose votes by spending either. The point is that we do need to look big picture and see that if we don't take some measures now, eventually the consequences are much worse than a few years of relatively more spartan economic conditions.
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  #1695  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2019, 6:15 PM
Danny D Oh Danny D Oh is offline
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Originally Posted by dmacc View Post
If economic growth is artificially propped up by deficits then all you're doing is disguising poor economic output and putting yourself in a deferred negative position. Our economic output has been extremely slow for decades, its just been masked in the past by large deficits creating artificially higher inflation numbers. The only solution is deregulation and an economic strategy that offers incentives for growth where wanted.
It's not so much propped up as growth being dependent on core infrastructure being in place. When it isn't, we lose opportunities to places that have it. When we have more to offer in terms of infrastructure and services we are more competitive for those opportunities. Yes there needs to be a balance to avoid frivolous spending but at this point the cuts are being made to core infrastructure and services.

Actually these types of cuts make the economy more reliant on short-term measures to attract investment that usually have zero/negative long-term economic impact, such as giant tax breaks where the investment is tied to paying very little or no tax and leaves once there is an expectation of re-investment or paying tax.

IMO Manitoba makes itself attractive to investment by having an available, capable, reliable and skilled workforce. Forget the zero sum tax incentive games. None of the parties articulated any kind of plan for this in the recent election and it's pretty clear our governing party is really hoping for a miracle because they have no plans to invest in our economy through infrastructure or the people who make the economy run. They are all focused on personal attacks and which party did what to make our system a mess.
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  #1696  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2019, 6:19 PM
Danny D Oh Danny D Oh is offline
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Originally Posted by optimusREIM View Post
Also, we need to acknowledge that as much economic output is created by government spending, the spending can't go on ad infinitum. Eventually we'll face a day of reckoning. Best to actually try and stay in the black as much as possible to avoid negative consequences for future generations. I understand that from time to time we need government stimulus in harder economic times, but we also are the authors of our own misery as regards cuts to services. There's got to be a balance. After all, we don't want to be the Greece of Canada...
We need to maintain core infrastructure/services. To me that's not stimulus, that's foundational to an economy and government. Seems like the places without a central government are not doing so hot economically.
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  #1697  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2019, 6:25 PM
StNorberter StNorberter is offline
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Originally Posted by EdwardTH View Post
It was only the last couple of years that the NDP really went nuts with spending as they desperately tried to stay in power. Up until then our debt-to-GDP ratio and our economic growth was better than Ontario, QC and all of eastern Canada. So it was not entirely just propped up by deficits. Admittedly eastern Canada was sluggish at the time.

Deregulation as a was to stimulate economic growth only works in far-right theoretical dreamland. A better strategy would be strategic investment in high ROI areas like infrastructure & education.
Only the last year the NDP was in power was spending for re-election. Sure, they went into deficit in 2008 for the first time in several years, but every other province was in deficit at that point as well, then until their final year in gov't the deficit shrunk each year. So it was a trend to return to balance/surplus for the most part.

This whole fairytale of years of financial mismanagement or increasing deficits is just that. A fairytale.
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  #1698  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2019, 1:51 PM
dmacc dmacc is offline
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Originally Posted by StNorberter View Post
Only the last year the NDP was in power was spending for re-election. Sure, they went into deficit in 2008 for the first time in several years, but every other province was in deficit at that point as well, then until their final year in gov't the deficit shrunk each year. So it was a trend to return to balance/surplus for the most part.

This whole fairytale of years of financial mismanagement or increasing deficits is just that. A fairytale.
Sure it took them 8ish years from 2000-08 to rape and pillage Hydro and the rainy day fund. Once there was no hiding it anymore they had to finally run reportable deficits. They blew through likely $2 billion from the rainy day fund, the Hydro "Dividend" and the multiple order of magnitude increase in water rental fee.

When they couldn't maintain there rapidly increasing deficit they forced Hydro to take on the many billion dollars of debt... which is of course guaranteed by the province. Saying the NDP were working their way to black in the final few years is a bit disingenuous as they were just diverting their increased spending to another department.
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  #1699  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2019, 2:49 PM
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I realize that this is an intractable partisan discussion, but the cons are now in a second term. At what point do they (and their supporters) stop blaming the previous government and actually wear some responsibility for the current economic situation? I don't see a lot of vision or new ideas from this government to grow the economy, but they are certainly committed to downloading costs onto the city (e.g. freezing transit funding) and onto the taxpayer (e.g. cutting postsecondary operating grants and allowing tuition to rise). I suspect some future government will will back on the mess that the Pallister government is creating and lament that it will take years to fix our starved transit system and education system. It's the circle of life.
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  #1700  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2019, 4:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Authentic_City View Post
I realize that this is an intractable partisan discussion, but the cons are now in a second term. At what point do they (and their supporters) stop blaming the previous government and actually wear some responsibility for the current economic situation? I don't see a lot of vision or new ideas from this government to grow the economy, but they are certainly committed to downloading costs onto the city (e.g. freezing transit funding) and onto the taxpayer (e.g. cutting postsecondary operating grants and allowing tuition to rise). I suspect some future government will will back on the mess that the Pallister government is creating and lament that it will take years to fix our starved transit system and education system. It's the circle of life.
Huh? The government is downloading costs onto the taxpayer? From whom exactly?
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