New Central Library | Construction

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by suburbia

When thinking of libraries or museums, numbers per hour doesn't make sense, as it is not a McDonalds where you go to a counter and over a period of 20 seconds order and get you nuggets and you're out. People at libraries and museums engage themselves in materials and programming.

To put things in perspective for you, over the 12 months of 2017, the Glenbow Museum had 139,641 visitors. I'm not saying that's a great number - it seems low - but it provides a touchstone for the fantastic numbers for the library.

I'd be curious to know what the numbers used to be for the central library.

I've never seen the source of your numbers regarding homeless.

I believe the Museums don't usually quote organized student visits in their attendance numbers.

[Bad Grizzly]

While it’s true that it’s not like a McDonald’s, it shouldn’t be compared to a McDonald’s. The two have nothing to do with each other - you might as well compared to an LRT station.
The Glenbow is a better comparison, but charges money to get in, so still totally different.
There are no numbers on homeless people in the library, but if you go in you will see homeless people in there, and thus are part of the numbers.

Originally Posted by suburbia

When thinking of libraries or museums, numbers per hour doesn't make sense, as it is not a McDonalds where you go to a counter and over a period of 20 seconds order and get you nuggets and you're out. People at libraries and museums engage themselves in materials and programming.

To put things in perspective for you, over the 12 months of 2017, the Glenbow Museum had 139,641 visitors. I'm not saying that's a great number - it seems low - but it provides a touchstone for the fantastic numbers for the library.

I'd be curious to know what the numbers used to be for the central library.

I've never seen the source of your numbers regarding homeless.

[Suburgatory]

What does a person’s living situation have to do with library user counts. You two should make your posts the same colour as the background so no one in the world ever has to read them. They’re that thin anyway.

Originally Posted by Bad Grizzly

While it’s true that it’s not like a McDonald’s, it shouldn’t be compared to a McDonald’s. The two have nothing to do with each other - you might as well compared to an LRT station.
The Glenbow is a better comparison, but charges money to get in, so still totally different.
There are no numbers on homeless people in the library, but if you go in you will see homeless people in there, and thus are part of the numbers.

Originally Posted by Northern

I'm not changing my point of view, just because someone posts a tweet from the Calgary library's Twitter account. Get real.

Yes, it's a beautiful building inside and out, but throw enough money at something and you can have something nice. The city could buy a Ferrari and it would be nice, but perhaps not necessary. People questioned whether it was necessary, and by the way that had nothing to do with being 'politically charged' which is rich coming from you of all people.

When I've been in it twice since it opened and there were homeless people in it, and it wasn't terribly busy.

[Bad Grizzly]

Originally Posted by Suburgatory

What does a person’s living situation have to do with library user counts. You two should make your posts the same colour as the background so no one in the world ever has to read them. They’re that thin anyway.

It has everything to do with user counts. If a large chunk of your visitors are homeless, maybe, just maybe the new building wasn’t needed after all.

[speedog]

Originally Posted by Bad Grizzly

It has everything to do with user counts. If a large chunk of your visitors are homeless, maybe, just maybe the new building wasn’t needed after all.

Homeless people could be seen at the old downtown library location as well, do you think the ratio of homeless using the new library's location is higher compared to the old location?

[Bad Grizzly]

Originally Posted by speedog

Homeless people could be seen at the old downtown library location as well, do you think the ratio of homeless using the new library's location is higher compared to the old location?

The last time I was in the old library was about 20 years ago. I took my nephew there and there were a few homeless people in the library. What I remember most was some homeless guy taking a piss on the LRT platform when we were waiting for the train.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by Bad Grizzly

The last time I was in the old library was about 20 years ago. I took my nephew there and there were a few homeless people in the library. What I remember most was done homeless guy taking piss on the LRT platform when we were waiting for the train.

The times I've been to the branch that's part of the Westbrook LRT station have been real eye openers. Don't know for sure if the people were homeless but there was some real disgusting behavior. It's so bad that the staff have to unlock the washroom doors so you can use them. There was a guy in there once for at least an hour doing God knows what. Lots of weird noises and it smelled gross as hell. I think someone complained and a staff member had to go and check on the guy. I could openly see wads of cash stuck into various pockets along the legs of his pants which only made things look even more suspicious. I hope the staff at the branch get good psychological counseling as part of their benefits because they definitely need it having to deal with shit like that.

[SteveP]

The old library was a dump, partially due to its age, but also from some of the people who visited it. I remember taking my kids to it about 10 years ago, and it stunk. There was a homeless guy hanging around the kids section, and he smelled like he hadn't had a bath in 6 months. The carpet in the library had stains on it. I spent about 10 minutes in there and then we left.

I checked out the new library, and it's obviously nicer (that's what $250 Million will get you I suppose) and at least they nixed the carpet. A few homeless people milling around in it, but nothing too crazy. Still, the visit wasn't complete without an eye rolling event. We were leaving the library and some guy was taking a dump in front of the city hall building.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

I believe the Museums don't usually quote organized student visits in their attendance numbers.

The museums I'm aware of do. Even then, that's a "few thousand" at best.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Bad Grizzly

While it’s true that it’s not like a McDonald’s, it shouldn’t be compared to a McDonald’s. The two have nothing to do with each other - you might as well compared to an LRT station.
The Glenbow is a better comparison

That's my point. That's why I brought up Glenbow numbers (and said that you cannot say numbers per hour like you could at a MacD's).

Originally Posted by Bad Grizzly

There are no numbers on homeless people in the library, but if you go in you will see homeless people in there, and thus are part of the numbers.

I did see a couple, true.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Bad Grizzly

It has everything to do with user counts. If a large chunk of your visitors are homeless, maybe, just maybe the new building wasn’t needed after all.

So you do think rich people have more right to gaining access to educational material than less rich people? I'm just trying to understand your logic here. Are you suggesting the new library has led to the influx of a hundred thousand homeless to the city?

Originally Posted by speedog

Homeless people could be seen at the old downtown library location as well, do you think the ratio of homeless using the new library's location is higher compared to the old location?

If anything, the ratio of homeless has gone way down. When I see all of the events in their performance space (most of which are generally packed) I hardly see any homeless. And those events are ones often things that didn't happen in the prior library (or happened less) hence contributing to what is I'm certain a massive numbers increase.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Bad Grizzly

Highly doubt the homeless people are accessing the library for educational material.

It seems that the folks who have had least direct experience visiting this place have the most definitive observations!

Meanwhile, you can now go ahead and travel to Scottland. No need to be scared anymore - USA Today is confirming the Loch Ness Monster has died:
• Video Link

[Eau Claire]

The new library is great. You can see the way libraries are evolving in the new digital world, and here in Calgary we’re now a leader. It’s already become a symbol of Calgary and who we are and where we’re going. This has probably already been posted, but in case it hasn’t, one of the Calgary crowd who started Uber has given $5million to Calgary Public Libraries.

“After making his fortune at Uber, he left the company in 2016 and has been looking to begin his “philanthropy journey,” deciding the best place to start is his old hometown by donating $5 million to the Calgary Public Library Foundation.

In return, the foundation has christened the new Central Library’s concert venue the Patricia A. Whelan Performance Hall, named after Whelan’s mother who died last year.

“She always got us reading a lot,” Whelan said while reflecting on childhood memories of going to the library with his late mother.

“Reading is still a big part of my life. I love books so, for me, libraries hold such a special place in my heart.”...

“It’s just such a beautiful space,” he said. “That to me is just the most exciting thing — just to be there and to see … people coming in, and what an opportunity it is for the city to have such a beautiful hub and create a good, vibrant energy in that part of the downtown core.””
https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...ary-foundation

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Eau Claire

The new library is great. You can see the way libraries are evolving in the new digital world, and here in Calgary we’re now a leader. It’s already become a symbol of Calgary and who we are and where we’re going. This has probably already been posted, but in case it hasn’t, one of the Calgary crowd who started Uber has given $5million to Calgary Public Libraries.

“After making his fortune at Uber, he left the company in 2016 and has been looking to begin his “philanthropy journey,” deciding the best place to start is his old hometown by donating $5 million to the Calgary Public Library Foundation.

In return, the foundation has christened the new Central Library’s concert venue the Patricia A. Whelan Performance Hall, named after Whelan’s mother who died last year.

“She always got us reading a lot,” Whelan said while reflecting on childhood memories of going to the library with his late mother.

“Reading is still a big part of my life. I love books so, for me, libraries hold such a special place in my heart.”...

“It’s just such a beautiful space,” he said. “That to me is just the most exciting thing — just to be there and to see … people coming in, and what an opportunity it is for the city to have such a beautiful hub and create a good, vibrant energy in that part of the downtown core.””
https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...ary-foundation

That's fantastic. It has been impressive how much the library has been supported by donated dollars.

[DizzyEdge]

I have to admit I'm always a bit torn about the new library. I think it's an amazing space, and definitely has become part of the group of Calgary landmarks (Calgary Tower, Saddledome, "Peace bridge", The Bow, National Music Centre, etc.). I've been there a bunch and have been impressed about how many people are using the library. I can't say if there are less homeless than before, but there definitely seems to be way more non-homeless. That all said, it was pretty expensive and redirecting some of that money to digitize holdings could have also been a worthy endeavor.

[MalcolmTucker]

"That all said, it was pretty expensive and redirecting some of that money to digitize holdings could have also been a worthy endeavor."
This isn't a project for a local library to do, and I'd argue Calgary's digital lending is already pretty good.

Canada's universities are attempting to coordinate a large project on this, and it will be a decades long project. Important to note that the documents to be digitized even today probably average less than one viewer a year in paper form. A lot of them will be less than once a decade items.

I'd be all for more dollar support for projects like this, but it terms of what will actually be done, versus what you think the result will be when you think about it, I think you'll be disappointed. There is no need to duplicate effort that has built up the Google Books database for example.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

... it was pretty expensive and redirecting some of that money to digitize holdings could have also been a worthy endeavor.

It was a good chunk of change, but need to recall that a.) the full amount wasn't from city taxes, and that b.) it has enabled even more on-going funding commitments (that actually help programs such as those you've been advocating).

When we look at projects like this, we'll all have our individual angles and things we'd like, but while we may not get personal value out of some of the additional programs using the library or the incitement the library brings that gets more people in, we also need to accord value to those things. The national and international attention just from the architecture has been impressive, and I'd be curious how Tourism Calgary would valuate that free city marketing.

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Canada's universities are attempting to coordinate a large project on this, and it will be a decades long project. Important to note that the documents to be digitized even today probably average less than one viewer a year in paper form. A lot of them will be less than once a decade items.

I'd be all for more dollar support for projects like this, but it terms of what will actually be done, versus what you think the result will be when you think about it, I think you'll be disappointed. There is no need to duplicate effort that has built up the Google Books database for example.

Hadn't even considered that. Very true.