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  #341  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2013, 12:00 PM
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Paradise Spends Big on Infrastructure

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The Mayor of Paradise says the town is spending a huge amount of money on infrastructure, cost-shared with the provincial and federal governments, but he's not worried that the forecasted provincial deficit will have any real impact on the town. At the Paradise Mayor's luncheon in front of the Mount Pearl-Paradise Chamber of Commerce yesterday, Ralph Wiseman said he remains certain that the town will continue to grow.



He says they're spending about $37.5 million, an enormous amount of money for a town that size. But he says they can afford it with the revenues that they're getting.

Wiseman says the provincial government's current financial problems don't put a damper on the growth of Paradise.



He says the provincial government will find an answer, but he's confident that it won't impact the town. So far, the money from last year's budget is being delivered as promised.
http://www.vocm.com/newsarticle.asp?mn=2&id=32201
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  #342  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2013, 12:08 PM
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A city with literally nothing but single-detached houses, where the residents commute into the city every day, is spending a massive amount of money on infrastructure?

Shocking.
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  #343  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2013, 2:03 PM
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Originally Posted by jeddy1989 View Post
Council Approves Land Rezoning


http://www.vocm.com/newsarticle.asp?mn=2&ID=32215


not so happy about the Kenmount road one though, gotta say

by "these two projects" I know he doesn't mean single detached houses .. he's talking about kenmount hill and Glencrest
Yeah, really. I don't know how 24 single-detached houses are going to have anything but an adverse effect on the City. Certainly won't "revolutionize".

Again, I just am not convince that doc really GETS IT (what sustainable development really is).

And once again, Doc is seemingly taking credit for private industry investment into the region.
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  #344  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2013, 2:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Copes View Post
A city with literally nothing but single-detached houses, where the residents commute into the city every day, is spending a massive amount of money on infrastructure?

Shocking.
I just love how he's presenting this as a good thing, as though it's some luxury investment that good planning and growth enables Paradise to afford. Honey, you don't even have sidewalks on your main street yet. No, this is just how much your urban sprawl costs to service.

The Mayor should have said, "And get used to it. Infrastructure is expensive and we have a hell of a lot of it to build and maintain. And the best part is all we have to pay for it are the petty taxes on single family, detached homes. So, folks, bend over and wait. Your bill is going to come due every few years for the rest of your life..."
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Last edited by SignalHillHiker; Mar 20, 2013 at 2:40 PM.
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  #345  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2013, 3:23 PM
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Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker View Post
I just love how he's presenting this as a good thing, as though it's some luxury investment that good planning and growth enables Paradise to afford. Honey, you don't even have sidewalks on your main street yet. No, this is just how much your urban sprawl costs to service.

The Mayor should have said, "And get used to it. Infrastructure is expensive and we have a hell of a lot of it to build and maintain. And the best part is all we have to pay for it are the petty taxes on single family, detached homes. So, folks, bend over and wait. Your bill is going to come due every few years for the rest of your life..."
Indeed. "We can afford it because the Provincial government gives us money for nothing" is an awful way to justify spending. It's completely unsustainable. Every municipality should be aiming to operate without the provincial government. Grant it, that's next to impossible given how difficult it is for a municipality to raise funds... but still, this was the worst "brag" I've ever seen.

He should be looking at it as a crisis situation, as should anyone in Paradise with half a brain. They really need to figure out how to decrease the cost of infrastructure and create new forms of revenue.

I could begin to tell them how, of course, but I don't think they want to listen to me.
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  #346  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2013, 3:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Copes View Post
I could begin to tell them how, of course, but I don't think they want to listen to me.
Burn it flat? That's the best solution I can think of
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  #347  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2013, 4:41 PM
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GLENCREST!

I'm getting more and more hopeful!! watch this video from the council meeting about Glencrest!!!

http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/Canada...ID/2351937374/

Tom Hann said that 8 hectares will be for higher density, probably condos and apartment buildings.

also the overall plan will be brought in in a few weeks and apparently the developer has brought in some of the best planning experts in North America because they want to do this right

Tilly said that the developer has gone out of the country to find examples to make this development the best it can be.

Hickman said that the road system is impressive and you can access ammenities easily by walking

on another note Doc said that in the kenmount terrace area the city is looking to purchase a large parcel of land and develop it into a park approx the size of Bannerman park connected to the residential areas with trails
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Last edited by jeddy1989; Mar 20, 2013 at 4:54 PM.
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  #348  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2013, 4:44 PM
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If this turns out to be cool, I'm never doubting your optimism/enthusiasm again!
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  #349  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2013, 4:46 PM
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Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker View Post
If this turns out to be cool, I'm never doubting your optimism/enthusiasm again!
watch the video!!!
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  #350  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2013, 5:10 PM
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Great news. I feel such an overwhelming sense of relief. At least we know it's not going to be another Paradise and that it will have some higher density buildings. That's more than I expected.
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  #351  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2013, 5:26 PM
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Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker View Post
Great news. I feel such an overwhelming sense of relief. At least we know it's not going to be another Paradise and that it will have some higher density buildings. That's more than I expected.
Relief is an understatement! I was having night-horrors at one Glencrest could turn into...

O'Leary and Duff also sponsored the development of Glencrest because of the qualities of livability that were addressed.

and "also the overall plan will be brought in in a few weeks and apparently the developer has brought in some of the best planning experts in North America because they want to do this right" - I would take this statement with a grain of salt. Until I know who the planners/designers are, I will take this statement as fluff in order to support the development.

Not to say it's not well-planned (I have no clue, and won't until I see a masterplan) but I highly doubt that any lead-designers are involved, which really kind of annoy me that Hann said it at all.
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  #352  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2013, 5:28 PM
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Originally Posted by jeddy1989 View Post
watch the video!!!
This is a great sign and very innovative for the city too. I can't wait to see the entire plan. Is this suppose to start this spring? I apologize if it was mentioned in the video, I didn't watch all of it
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  #353  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2013, 5:30 PM
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I hope that it is a very livable community out there, however I have seen the development maps and proposals and I'm not entirely convinced it is how they describe it. O'leary and Duff supported it because it can be an easy thing to support (i.e no residents to piss off), but I hope the optimism is true!
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  #354  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2013, 6:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeddy1989 View Post
GLENCREST!

I'm getting more and more hopeful!! watch this video from the council meeting about Glencrest!!!

http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/Canada...ID/2351937374/
I listened to most of that without really watchiing it, but caught some ridiculous camera work, zooming in on council members' pens and notebooks as Councillor O'Leary is speaking around the 12 minute mark. Seems very unprofessional, especially for CBC.

Anyway, thanks for posting this.
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  #355  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2013, 7:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker View Post
I just love how he's presenting this as a good thing, as though it's some luxury investment that good planning and growth enables Paradise to afford. Honey, you don't even have sidewalks on your main street yet. No, this is just how much your urban sprawl costs to service.

The Mayor should have said, "And get used to it. Infrastructure is expensive and we have a hell of a lot of it to build and maintain. And the best part is all we have to pay for it are the petty taxes on single family, detached homes. So, folks, bend over and wait. Your bill is going to come due every few years for the rest of your life..."
Yup and the real bills haven't started to come due yet. Paradise has 20 years to get different revenue streams or anyone who has invested money into real estate there will lose their shirts, as Paradise will be bankrupt.
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  #356  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2013, 7:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeddy1989 View Post
GLENCREST!

I'm getting more and more hopeful!! watch this video from the council meeting about Glencrest!!!

http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/Canada...ID/2351937374/

Tom Hann said that 8 hectares will be for higher density, probably condos and apartment buildings.

also the overall plan will be brought in in a few weeks and apparently the developer has brought in some of the best planning experts in North America because they want to do this right

Tilly said that the developer has gone out of the country to find examples to make this development the best it can be.

Hickman said that the road system is impressive and you can access ammenities easily by walking

on another note Doc said that in the kenmount terrace area the city is looking to purchase a large parcel of land and develop it into a park approx the size of Bannerman park connected to the residential areas with trails
A few of the facts and figures from the video for those without the time to watch:

4 economic zones > So we won't be looking at a monoculture here. Great.
35 Hectares of Industrial Land
39 Hectares of Commercial/Retail Land
8 Hectares of High Density Land
12 Hectares of Single Family Detached

Will also include parks and walking trails. I can't wait to here more details, but it sounds like this will be a nice place to live and to invest.
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  #357  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2013, 8:17 PM
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They seriously were going to initially reject Glencrest?!

https://twitter.com/zachgoudie/statu...380480/photo/1
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  #358  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2013, 8:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ajcoffey View Post
They seriously were going to initially reject Glencrest?!

https://twitter.com/zachgoudie/statu...380480/photo/1
wow! :O
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  #359  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2013, 8:21 PM
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  #360  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2013, 8:28 PM
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Quote:
Draft city staff report said no to Glencrest rezoning

St. John’s planning staff advised this month against rezoning parcels of land for the massive Glencrest development near Southlands, calling it “premature” to do so.

But within 48 hours, those recommendations were changed in the final version of the report. “The rezonings warrant consideration of approval,” that document noted.

CBC News has obtained the initial memos written by city staffers for consideration by the planning committee — and later, council as a whole.

Those memos, dated March 6, are in response to a request to rezone four blocks of land — one commercial area, two nearby residential zones, and an industrial zone.

All together, the blocks of land in question comprise about 10 per cent of Glencrest’s 2,178 acres, owned by former premier Danny Williams.

After considering the final memo, the city’s planning committee recommended approval of the rezoning requests.

And at a public meeting Tuesday night, St. John’s councillors unanimously voted in favour of the proposals.

But what city councillors never saw were the early drafts of the planning department's recommendations — drafts that tell a different story about the development, and come to a different conclusion.

Initial draft memo conclusions
The initial drafts of the memo lay out the rules for development above 190 metres, and without water and sewer systems.

Those drafts dealt with the four rezoning requests separately; they were later collapsed into one final document.

In underlined type, an early draft stresses that “... no development may be permitted ... until such time as the city's department of engineering determines that the area is available for serviced urban development.”

Memos written by city planning staff on requests to rezone parts of the Glencrest development changed significantly over a 48-hour period. (CBC)
Until then, the memo notes, “rezoning to accommodate urban development would be premature.”

Demand for new homes in the St. John's area has never been higher.

The city is rapidly running out of room in areas serviced by the municipal water system.

Developers can get permission to build outside those areas if they have a legal agreement to pay for water and sewer systems themselves.

But staff's initial conclusion stresses that Glencrest doesn't have such an agreement.

“(U)nless the applicant contracts to pay the full cost of construction of the services ... this application is considered premature and cannot presently be recommended for approval," the draft memos note.

Objections changed in later drafts
But those objections never saw the light of day.

Instead, staff went back to the drawing board and, within 24 hours, prepared a second recommendation.

But many important details have changed.

The first section, where staff had underlined concerns about missing services, now simply reads: "Design work for servicing is ongoing. Council's approach is that the water and sewage systems and trunk systems shall be provided at the developer’s cost."

In the first draft, staff said the rezoning couldn't be considered without contracts to pay for the full cost of construction.

In the second draft, those concerns have disappeared.

The new conclusion says, "The rezoning is recommended for consideration by council."

But even that wasn't enough.

Staff wrote one more draft of the recommendation — with an even more enthusiastic conclusion.

Now, instead of being "recommended for consideration," the "rezonings warrant consideration of approval."

That is the final recommendation that went before the city’s planning committee on March 12, and the full meeting of council Tuesday night.

Other concerns downplayed
Other concerns are similarly watered down from one draft to the next.

In the first draft, in a section on the environment, staff write that the applicant should check with the Department of Fisheries and Oceans to determine if a river is salmon bearing.

In the next draft, city staff will do that checking themselves.

With the development backing onto the Trans-Canada Highway, the first draft says that "an appropriate buffer is required."

St. John's Mayor Dennis O'Keefe is declining comment until he sees the memoranda cited in the CBC News story. (CBC)
That was changed to "an appropriate buffer may be required."

It is unclear why planning staff changed their minds, and their recommendations.

The later drafts don't suggest a reason.

But they do suggest that at least some staff members had objections to what was happening.

At the end of the first draft, there are two names — both senior members of the planning department.

But in the second and third drafts, only one name remains.

A spokeswoman for the city said Mayor Dennis O'Keefe was not available for comment until he reviews the documents cited in the CBC News story.

The city instead issued a written statement that noted "there are often many variations as information comes in before a final memorandum is presented to council."

Edit: T'was already posted.. oh well, you can now read the full article here. I don't think the concerns raised in the article were of a great enough magnitude to discard the whole proposal. It seems they just wanted to delay the approval until they had more info. Maybe they decided they can go ahead and approve the four parcels of land proposed for development, as it's only the first phase and gather the info needed at a later date. I say full steam ahead. The sooner the 20 years of construction starts, the better!
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