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  #41  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2009, 10:53 PM
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It's probably enough, but it'll take a few years to catch up. Now, in the third year of our massive spending, I'm starting to see improvement in Manitoba's roads. It took 2 - 3 years to notice it.
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  #42  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2009, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Calgarian View Post
Is Montreal falling apart?
It is not, every city has its problems were not the first city to every have a overpass fall apart remember what happened in Minneapolis.

The government is putting alot of money into infrastructure this year many highway are being redone ex. Turcot and Dorval the new highway 25 bridge.

Its really easy to just point the finger at Montreal and say that city is falling apart well ya it was Canada first major metropolis the 60's was a big boom. If it had been Toronto in the 60's it would have the same problems.
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  #43  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2009, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim View Post
unfriendly concrete weather + corrupt city officials + incompetent union workers + bloated inefficient local and provincial governments =


http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/msnbc/C...hmed_1p.h2.jpg
umm it does not help that these things were designed to last 20 years not 30-40 years l
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  #44  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2009, 12:57 AM
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This is an exit ramp off of a busy autoroute, the scary thing is ....it's been like that for over a year now. (My photo)
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  #45  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2009, 2:05 AM
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thats what we get for under engineering the life span of stuff and not providing proper drainage and maintaining said drainage winnipegs got 1 bridge thats in sad shape but its steel and the city is constantly checking it and is getting ready to rip it down and rebuild
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  #46  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2009, 3:19 AM
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When did that overpass collapse!
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  #47  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2009, 3:22 AM
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umm it does not help that these things were designed to last 20 years not 30-40 years l
I believe this were designed to last 70 years.
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  #48  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2009, 3:24 AM
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When did that overpass collapse!
I think it was two, or three years ago.
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  #49  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2009, 4:17 AM
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I believe this were designed to last 70 years.
out curosity anywhere u could quote that in either official langaudge?
anyhow another factor forgoten is salt the copious amounts of salt used on the roads is realy hard on them speacly when dranes get pluged with sand and crap
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  #50  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2009, 4:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Spoolmak View Post
When did that overpass collapse!
September 30, 2006. I live about 10 minutes from there.
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  #51  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2009, 4:18 AM
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When did that overpass collapse!
Saturday, September 30 2006

edit toxik beat me
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  #52  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2009, 4:23 AM
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Quote:
Its really easy to just point the finger at Montreal and say that city is falling apart well ya it was Canada first major metropolis the 60's was a big boom. If it had been Toronto in the 60's it would have the same problems.
So exactly when did Toronto have its modern era boom? As far as I can tell it was only a couple years behind Montreal's and at a much larger scale.
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  #53  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2009, 5:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Sacamano View Post
So exactly when did Toronto have its modern era boom? As far as I can tell it was only a couple years behind Montreal's and at a much larger scale.
Montréal's boom years were the 60's and 70's (World Fair, Olympics etc). Toronto's began in the late 70's.
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  #54  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2009, 5:48 AM
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Toronto's began in the late 70's.
You mean it was over by the late seventies.
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  #55  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2009, 6:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexcaban View Post
It is not, every city has its problems were not the first city to every have a overpass fall apart remember what happened in Minneapolis.

The government is putting alot of money into infrastructure this year many highway are being redone ex. Turcot and Dorval the new highway 25 bridge.

Its really easy to just point the finger at Montreal and say that city is falling apart well ya it was Canada first major metropolis the 60's was a big boom. If it had been Toronto in the 60's it would have the same problems.
It's unfortunate in that people have been injured or died in 3 of the incidents. Also, bad news in Québec is very thoroughly covered in Canada.

The Gardiner has been falling apart for years, luckily no one has been injured. A giant slab fell off the BMO building, giant sinkholes on Keele this weekend, subway flooding.. don't seem to receive the same blanket coverage, particularly in the blogosphere.
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  #56  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2009, 6:20 AM
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Lets just say the both need replacement
Turcot


New Turcot


source www.themonitor.ca and Montreal Mirror
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  #57  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2009, 6:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacamano View Post
You mean it was over by the late seventies.
I suppose it depends on what type of boom you're talking about. If you mean transportation infrastructure then yes. Other than the subway to nowhere and the Scarborough RT failure, nothing much has happened in the last 30 years.
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  #58  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2009, 6:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexcaban View Post
Lets just say the both need replacement
Gardiner

Turcot


source Wikipedia and Montreal Mirror
It will be traffic chaos for a few years but I can't wait to see the Turcot levelled, even though I don't have a car and I live in the East End!
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  #59  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2009, 7:05 AM
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Originally Posted by sammo View Post
i haven't been to montreal in a while (~five years) but i was surprised to see how bad the roads have deteriorated and how many buildings/streetscapes looked unkempt.
i was just driving thru this weekend (enroute to quebec city) and managed to take a pic in a long tunnel (i forget which, autoroute25/40-?).

^you can see huge chunks of tile(?) missing!!! really 3rd world.
(maybe they were in the process of 'recieving attention' -?)

many of the highways that Ms.B and i were navigating/enduring were currently in the process of being resurfaced/repaired, but others had far too many pot holes or shoddy patches and did not drain well -esp. under the heavy weekend rains (propitious to this example,lol). temporary jersey walls looked badly set up aswell.
of course this/my account of road dilapidation would not necessarily depict the overall phyiscal state of montreal 'at this time' (or the buildings) but it did make me wonder what the good tax paying plebes have come to accept.

in contrast, the road to/from ontario (hwy401 in particular) was straight, smooth and tidy -as a baby's... (poo withstanding!)
The MTQ has to choose between replacing the missing tiles or removing them altogether, both costly solutions. I would think that removing them would be best as the replacements will continue to be damaged.

http://www.journalofcommerce.com/article/20060906600

Montreal tunnels undergo safety inspections
Quebec


A recent tunnel collapse in Boston that killed one person caught the attention of Transport Quebec, which operates several tunnels in the Montreal area.

A driver was killed when 12 tonnes of concrete ceiling panels broke lose and fell on the car as it travelled through one of the tunnels in Boston’s Big Dig transportation system.

The Big Dig, a $14.6 billion (US) highway project by the Massachusetts Turnpike Authority, was the most expensive highway construction project in the US and was credited for using the latest technology and touted to be safe.

Due to the ceiling collapse, sections of the Big Dig were closed, prompting a criminal investigation. A major focus is the epoxy-and-bolt system that secures the heavy concrete slabs to the ceiling.

Transport Quebec operates two major tunnel systems in Montreal - the Ville Marie Viger Tunnel and underground interchange on Highway 720 in downtown Montreal (total length 8.4 kms of underground tubes ranging between one and five lanes, Ville Marie built in 1974 and Viger in 1986) and the underwater Louis Hyppolite-Lafontaine Tunnel (3.6 kms, with two multi-lane traffic tubes, built in 1967).

Alexandre Debs, Transport Quebec’s engineer responsible for coordinating maintenance work for the Montreal area, pointed out that none of the tunnels under his jurisdiction have collapsed.

He noted the section of the Big Dig which collapsed was part of the pre-Big Dig Boston Tunnel that was renovated using suspended ceiling technology.

“This is brand new,” said Debs. “It was used for the first time in North America in Boston. It’s a good idea. The space between the tunnel and the real ceiling can be used for ventilation, electrical systems and so on. The concrete slabs used in Boston were very heavy and they had a problem with metal anchors, which caused the accident.”

The Ville Marie Tunnel was built based on a ‘cut and cover’ process, which had crews dig a channel and cover it as the work progressed. This process was also used for the Viger Tunnel.

For the Louis Hypolite Tunnel, seven pre-fabricated sections of the tunnel were built, sunk into the St. Lawrence River, aligned and opened up. Portions of the Big Dig were built this way.

Each tunnel has ventilation and lighting systems, along with emergency exits.

Transport Quebec has been studying the use of suspended ceiling technology for future tunnels.

“Concerns about the weight of the suspended concrete slabs will be reviewed,” said Debs. “We have to find a better solution to anchor them, knowing we have difficult winter conditions that may corrode the metal system that suspends it.”

The Montreal region accounts for 30 per cent of the province’s highway structures. Every three years, each structure, including the tunnels, receives a thorough structural examination. Each structure is given a visual examination once a year, with immediate repairs undertaken as problems are discovered.

Transport Quebec is the first transportation authority in North America to receive a 9001 (2000) ISO designation for structural inspection.

The sides of the Lafontaine Tunnel tubes are clad with ceramic tiles. In some sections, portions of tiles are missing. This is caused by automobiles that have collided into the walls.

“The tiles are fragile and like glass,” said Debs. “We are studying the possibility of removing the tiles and having concrete walls at the height of cars and trucks. The concrete walls are very nice in the Ville Marie and Viger tunnels, and they can be painted.”

A committee examining the situation is expected to come up with a solution over the next five years. Replacing a tile costs over $50 per tile in the Lafontaine Tunnel. Removing the tiles could cost millions of dollars.

While Transport Quebec has not replaced the structure of its tunnels, it has upgraded lighting, ventilation and electrical systems to allow for more high tech cameras and monitoring systems.

It costs around $3 million to operate and maintain the two tunnels annually, with $1 million reserved for power expenses.

Debs notes the tunnels were well built, which accounts for their safety record.

“They took all the technical knowledge of construction that was available at the time,” he said, “but being well built doesn’t mean we can’t have accidents or fires. For the last 10 years, we have had ongoing research projects with the National Research Council of Canada. “Each year, we conduct two fire simulations in the Ville Marie to verify our ventilation scenarios. We are the first transportation authority in the world to conduct real fire situation tests in real operating highway tunnels.”


A propane burner is used for the tests to simulate a vehicle fire. The principle is to ensure that the smoke remains downstream so that the motorists in front of the fire are in a positive pressure situation.
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  #60  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2009, 1:29 PM
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^thanx habsfan.
i remember the boston tunnel catastrophe from a few years ago.
it was a different type of failure than what i'm seeing/reading about in the montreal tunnel.
in boston the fasteners/epoxy used was a new technology, a (less expensive) 'Powers' brand adhesive i believe (when they probably should have used a tried & true 'Hilti' anchoring system). problem in boston was from inception.
nevertheless, for tiles/conc. to crack or fall off of the side walls in the montreal tunnel can be precarious and looks unbecoming. this type of degeneration appears to be from 'usage' (the occasional crash!) and time.
i like the (economical) idea of the base being left concrete -just removing all the lower tiles altogether.
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