Quote:
Originally Posted by trueviking
My only concern is that these very large projects asking for tens of millions in TIF money will turn government and the public against TIF. The Province in particular hates the optics of these announcements handing huge money to big developers, even if it a good investment. The downtown residential grant program did so much good and got dozens of smaller projects built. These are the key to building neighbourhood downtown and stimulating growth...for a tiny fraction of the cost. If we don't get another program because of the optics of megaprojects killed TIF, that would be a real shame.
If I was in charge the TIF would cap out and be focused on small projects. It would be far more impactful.
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THIS!
Not to sound cynical, but this is a small component of my rants in the political thread (or whenever anything veers off into the political)... This city has a hard time imagining anything getting done without tax dollars while simultaneously always pushing back when tax dollars aid a large private project... the old "putting money in the pockets of developers" mindset creeping up... when success happens in Winnipeg, its often decried.
As a result, the government is apprehensive in helping larger developers, movers and shakers because of a potential voters backlash, whether to programs like the TIF or in the next elections.
Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire
I don't see why it is preferable to provide TIF incentives to smaller developers only... if the Hofers want to renovate another 6 storey Exchange District building, then why should they get preferential TIF treatment while Artis or Longboat get shut out because they want to build 40+ storey buildings? To my mind we're either OK with TIFs or we're not.
I think the argument for doing away with them altogether is a lot stronger than changing up the TIF program to favour smaller developers just because they're smaller.
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You're absolutely correct. But envy creeps up if it appears that "fortunate, well-heeled developers" like TN get a helping hand. The Hofer projects do not make news on the same scale, whereas any larger projects has all those people who watch too much TV crying out for gotham-like corruption. They ask "where's my handout" without understanding a) the massive risk taken on, b) the massive civic/social benefit of these projects, and c) the numbers gotta work... these projects wouldn't have gone ahead without the funding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrskylar
So the city with no money wants to pump $20M into this project in the guise of “amenities”, $3M to the bum's plaza, $17 M for connections and skywalk connections. How about NO!
Like I said before, nothing can be built downtown without the stink of tax dollars!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrskylar
Hey someone noticed!
So earlier in the week we hear Bowman and city council crying poor because we shot the wad with the snow clearing budget (city had to spend money to clear basically the one snowfall we had in the winter of 16-17) but miraculously there is $20M to funnel into the TNSE project. Either the city has money or it doesn't, Bowman and council come across looking like complete idiots if they approve this!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrskylar
I'd be really impressed if TNSE didn't feel the need to take a dime of tax dollars for this project!
Not taking a dime would really stand out because it would be the first project built downtown in 50 years without the stink of govt. money attached to it!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrskylar
Just how close is our downtown to being in a stage where everything built doesn't need govt. funding, are we there yet, are we close, will it ever be the case?
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You and I agree on a number of things, and I share your sentiment in PRINCIPLE...
but as I have said (I'm still waiting on a "Hey someone noticed moment" myself haha!), construction costs are too high here, which is a mostly private sector matter. If our costs were as low as Vancouver's, we would need less government funding in these projects.
That said, when the civic benefit is measurably great, and when the developers jump through umpteen hoops to satisfy the city, some level of assistance is not unreasonable. After all, they're doing something the city cannot.
Still, this program was designed to be tax neutral in the end, and for the time being, was already budgeted in. Any money the city was out of was counted after it was allotted, fairly, to these types of projects.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilwayne
esquire don't bother arguing with these bafoons
the government had huge input and influence on how the public space was going to be developed and used theyshould help fund a portion of it.. not to mention its a public space on a lot being built by a private corporation.. you morons this space is going to generate millions in taxes as opposed to 800,000 dollars the surface lot was generating..
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You're not entirely incorrect but the "public space" you mention is actually on private land. Nonetheless, it serves a civic/social purpose as well.
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