Canadian Border Cities as Suburbs of US Cities?

pj3000 · #1 Posted **Jan 28, 2020, 9:49 PM**

Are Windsor, ON and Niagara Falls-St. Catherines, ON viewed as "suburbs" of Detroit, MI and Buffalo-Niagara Falls, NY respectively?

Steely Dan · #2 Posted **Jan 28, 2020, 9:52 PM**

maybe buffalo is a suburb of toronto?

source: https://giphy.com/gifs/mind-seinfeil...INdQS5YQ/links

iheartthed · #3 Posted **Jan 28, 2020, 9:55 PM**

Canada is a suburb of the U.S.

Windsor is a satellite city of Detroit. I would describe it as similar to Ann Arbor's relationship to Detroit, or Newark's relationship to New York.

Razor · #4 Posted **Jan 28, 2020, 11:31 PM**

Ya suburbs are definitely a wrong description.Windsor can be described as satellite city to Detroit for sure. Just because of the tied in economy and Detroit being the headquarters of the auto industry.. I don't view Niagara Falls Canada or St. Catherines as suburbs or satellite cities to Buffalo at all.

edale · #5 Posted **Jan 28, 2020, 11:49 PM**

Did Windsor exist prior/around the same time as Detroit? If so, then it is not a suburb. If the sole reason Windsor exists is because people wanted to live near Detroit, then yes, it's a suburb. Same logic can be applied to any city or town outside of a major city. Small towns that existed contemporaneously with the larger city in the metro, but which later grew as a result of sprawl or because of proximity to the larger city are a bit of a hybrid, but I'd count them as suburbs.

north 42 · #6 Posted **Jan 29, 2020, 1:03 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by edale

Did Windsor exist prior/around the same time as Detroit? If so, then it is not a suburb. If the sole reason Windsor exists is because people wanted to live near Detroit, then yes, it's a suburb. Same logic can be applied to any city or town outside of a major city. Small towns that existed contemporaneously with the larger city in the metro, but which later grew as a result of sprawl or because of proximity to the larger city are a bit of a hybrid, but I'd count them as suburbs.

Detroit was first settled in 1700, and Windsor in 1749. Windsor is definitely not a suburb of Detroit, more of a sister city as the two cities grew side by side and had a lot of shared industry, but were and are completely separate core cities with their own suburbs and hinterlands.

lio45 · #7 Posted **Jan 29, 2020, 1:48 AM**

Obviously, due to the border, the commuting patterns can't be anywhere near what you'd see for a "real" suburb. (The reason why East Berlin couldn't be labeled "a suburb" of West Berlin during peak Iron Curtain era, despite being cheaper and right next door.)

Nouvellecosse · #8 Posted **Jan 29, 2020, 2:07 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by edale

Did Windsor exist prior/around the same time as Detroit? If so, then it is not a suburb. If the sole reason Windsor exists is because people wanted to live near Detroit, then yes, it's a suburb. Same logic can be applied to any city or town outside of a major city. Small towns that existed contemporaneously with the larger city in the metro, but which later grew as a result of sprawl or because of proximity to the larger city are a bit of a hybrid, but I'd count them as suburbs.

is it really that cut and dried through? There are a lot of examples of places that existed independently before being captured by the orbit of a fast growing peer. In fact, many older cities have suburbs that are peppered with historic town/city centers of places that used to separate before a peer city's growth took off and expanded around it.

iheartthed · #9 Posted **Jan 29, 2020, 2:25 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by edale

Did Windsor exist prior/around the same time as Detroit? If so, then it is not a suburb. If the sole reason Windsor exists is because people wanted to live near Detroit, then yes, it's a suburb. Same logic can be applied to any city or town outside of a major city. Small towns that existed contemporaneously with the larger city in the metro, but which later grew as a result of sprawl or because of proximity to the larger city are a bit of a hybrid, but I'd count them as suburbs.

There are a lot of 300 year old suburbs in the northeast.

Northern Light · #10 Posted **Jan 29, 2020, 6:37 AM**

According to this:

https://windsorstar.com/news/local-n...with-trade-war

There are 6,700 daily commuters from Windsor to Detroit and roughly 600 going the other way.

As at December 2019, the Windsor-Essex Labour force is 180,700.

So 3.7% of Windsor's work force commutes to Detroit.

Needless to say the fraction going the other way is statistically insignificant.

Pretty to low to consider the area a suburb using that typical metric.

Northern Light · #11 Posted **Jan 29, 2020, 6:46 AM**

In looking at the Buffalo question, I can't find a good link on currently daily commuting traffic between Canada and Buffalo.

I was amused to find two articles, one from this month and one from early 2019 in which Cuomo and Schumer are pushing for bi-national commuter rail from NF, NY to Toronto.

https://buffalochronicle.com/2020/01...tern-new-york/

https://buffalochronicle.com/2019/02...erve-new-york/

BnaBreaker · #12 Posted **Jan 29, 2020, 7:15 AM**

North Portal, Saskatchewan is a suburb of Portal, North Dakota. Huge metropolis there.

benp · #13 Posted **Jan 29, 2020, 4:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northern Light

In looking at the Buffalo question, I can't find a good link on currently daily commuting traffic between Canada and Buffalo.

I was amused to find two articles, one from this month and one from early 2019 in which Cuomo and Schumer are pushing for bi-national commuter rail from NF, NY to Toronto.

https://buffalochronicle.com/2020/01...tern-new-york/

https://buffalochronicle.com/2019/02...erve-new-york/

Not sure how many can be counted as commuters, but In 2017 (last year I found data) over 4,000,000 cars, 1,200,000 trucks and 24,000 buses crossed the Peace Bridge between Fort Erie Canada and Buffalo. If you add up all of the Niagara River border crossings (Ft.Erie/Buffalo, Niagara Falls NY/ON, Lewiston/Queenston), it totals over 11,000,000 vehicle crossings per year.

Toronto is expanding its GO train service to St. Catherines and Niagara Falls, so NY is looking at ways to make it easier to access the service from the NY side.

iheartthed · #14 Posted **Jan 29, 2020, 4:45 PM**

Is Windsor the only municipal transit system in the world to operate a route across an international border (or at least North America)? It doesn't look like San Diego/Tijuana or El Paso/Juarez have any cross border public transit routes, according to Google Maps.

Acajack · #15 Posted **Jan 29, 2020, 5:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Is Windsor the only municipal transit system in the world to operate a route across an international border (or at least North America)? It doesn't look like San Diego/Tijuana or El Paso/Juarez have any cross border public transit routes, according to Google Maps.

The German city of Saarbrucken has a tramway line that is part of its municipal transit system that runs across the border into the French town of Sarreguemines.

mrnyc · #16 Posted **Jan 29, 2020, 6:09 PM**

well, look south too for a few switcharoos.

ie., there is laredo and nuevo laredo aka 'los dos laredos.' they shared a minor league baseball team.

and el paso is a very nice suburb of juarez.

and also, in a real switch for the la frontera borderlands, imo matamoros is a much nice looking place than its border twin brownsville. no heavy tourista focused riff raff border bar strip either, which is weird for the mex towns along the us-mex border that all highly cater to us tourists, at least near the border itself.

mrnyc · #17 Posted **Jan 29, 2020, 6:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Is Windsor the only municipal transit system in the world to operate a route across an international border (or at least North America)? It doesn't look like San Diego/Tijuana or El Paso/Juarez have any cross border public transit routes, according to Google Maps.

i don't think so -- i know greyhound is the cross border bus/transit service for los dos laredos. maybe similar for the others.

iheartthed · #18 Posted **Jan 29, 2020, 6:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnyc

i don't think so -- i know greyhound is the cross border bus/transit service for los dos laredos. maybe similar for the others.

Greyhound isn't municipal transit.

Acajack · #19 Posted **Jan 29, 2020, 7:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

The German city of Saarbrucken has a tramway line that is part of its municipal transit system that runs across the border into the French town of Sarreguemines.

There is also a tramway line that runs from Annemasse, France into Geneva, Switzerland.

And Basel, Switzerland has municipal bus and tramway lines that run into neighbouring parts of France and Germany.

Obadno · #20 Posted **Jan 29, 2020, 9:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj3000

Are Windsor, ON and Niagara Falls-St. Catherines, ON viewed as "suburbs" of Detroit, MI and Buffalo-Niagara Falls, NY respectively?

I always thought Niagra was its own city, maybe part of the Buffalo CSA or something.

The only ones I can think of are Windsor (To Detroit) and any other Canadian suburbs in that area. It actually seems to go the other way more with American Suburbs to Vancouver, Sault St. Marie, and some other towns on the border with smaller american towns (supported primarily via border checkpoint and trucking)