Official SSP Denver Transit Plan - Comment on final routes now

[Cirrus]

Major comments below. If you made a comment or asked a question and I didn't respond, I apologize. Feel free to ask it again.

Route comments:

>> Highlands:
What's the advantage of 32nd over 38th? It saves us some cost, but it seems like 38th reaches more potential riders and has more TOD potential. But I can probably count on my fingers and toes the total number of times I've been in Highlands, so I'm happy to change it if that's the consensus.

>> Cherry Creek:
1st Avenue is so wide, it seems like a good opportunity to take a lane. But if the geometrics don't work out then they don't work out. Assuming we switch to 2nd, where do we cut south? Fillmore? With a station in the middle of Fillmore between 1st & 2nd?

>> Cheesman Park:
How do we feel about accessing Josephine/York from Colfax rather than Broadway?

>> 11th Street line:
That's not a bad idea but would it really be our highest next priority? We're leaving a lot out, like MLK, Alameda, and Santa Fe itself. Assuming we wanted to add one more line (which I'm not sure we do, but for the sake of discussion), is that the one we'd add? Also, is that a higher priority than doing streetcar instead of BRT in RiNo and out to Decatur?

>> Broadway to RiNo:
I'm not sure why we'd need to connect RiNo to Civic Center via Broadway when we'll already have the Welton connection. Most people in greater 5 Points are going to be in walking distance to both the Welton and RiNo lines, so if we're going to have them both then it makes sense to me to send them to different places. We have 2 main downtown hubs (Civic Center & DUS), so to me that's a natural: send 1 line to each hub. Am I missing some important reason why they both need to go to Civic Center?

>> Larimer vs Blake
Larimer is closer to existing density and the rest of 5 Points, Blake has more future TOD potential. We also need to consider whether one or the other can accommodate dedicated lanes, because that will affect whether or not BRT is a good alternate. What does everyone else think?

>> Colfax to Decatur:
Still very interested in hearing more about how best to accomplish this connection. I'm far from convinced my proposed BRT line is the best option, but equally far from convinced of any alternatives.

[Cirrus]

Things we need from someone now:

• Budget: We've talked about some funding mechanisms, but it would be nice to have some idea of how much money we can reasonably expect to use. Absent more detailed information, I'm very concerned that going above $1 billion (as we've already done) is going to be too cost prohibitive. Anyone want to work on this? Bunt?

[RyanD]

>> Highlands:
What's the advantage of 32nd over 38th? It saves us some cost, but it seems like 38th reaches more potential riders and has more TOD potential. But I can probably count on my fingers and toes the total number of times I've been in Highlands, so I'm happy to change it if that's the consensus.

I was talking to Bunt the other night about this, so a lot of this was his feed but I agree with the points he made.. I think this might give us the potential for a South Federal streetcar line in the future phases. Maybe run it down to Evans in the future? Along with that, 38th is always a busy corridor so it would make sense to end it there but if compromises need to happen I think 32nd would be just fine quite honestly.

>> Broadway to RiNo:
I'm not sure why we'd need to connect RiNo to Civic Center via Broadway when we'll already have the Welton connection. Most people in greater 5 Points are going to be in walking distance to both the Welton and RiNo lines, so if we're going to have them both then it makes sense to me to send them to different places. We have 2 main downtown hubs (Civic Center & DUS), so to me that's a natural: send 1 line to each hub. Am I missing some important reason why they both need to go to Civic Center?

Bunt can explain the reasoning on this one better. Where are you Bunt? Did you frezze on your mountain?

>> Larimer vs Blake
Larimer is closer to existing density and the rest of 5 Points, Blake has more future TOD potential. We also need to consider whether one or the other can accommodate dedicated lanes, because that will affect whether or not BRT is a good alternate. What does everyone else think?

Once again, I think streetcar would be a better option on this corridor to attract riders in the surrounding neighborhoods to get to Upper Larimer / River North. I just have a feeling BRT wouldn't get used and the common people of Denver would look at it as another 5 points bus aka not take it. The reason why I sugessted Blake was because of Brighton. I would really hate Brighton to get left out in this deal and cutting over at 38th is not acceptable to access the new jazz going in around 28th-33rdish. Namely The Source, Industry, Denargo, etc.

[Wizened Variations]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Things we need from someone now:

• Budget: We've talked about some funding mechanisms, but it would be nice to have some idea of how much money we can reasonably expect to use. Absent more detailed information, I'm very concerned that going above $1 billion (as we've already done) is going to be too cost prohibitive. Anyone want to work on this? Bunt?

I think this is a question of timing.

The last two major rail lines that will serve Denver (and Aurora) are either being extended or being built (I-225 and DIA lines).

The rest of the Fastrack lines, barring the Central Corridor extension, do not serve the City of Denver outside of the urban core.

When the DIA line is complete, and, the I-225 Extension is finished, then, the question of additional steel rail services can be actively brought up.

Regardless of the funding mechanism, at some point the public will have to be included via the ballot box. I suspect that this group will want to be sold on any expansion idea, based upon how well the DIA and I-225 line expansion is doing. I also suspect that the opening of the DUS complex, too, will also raise concerns about the need to serve "the rest of the city of Denver" and, that, too could well be a good sales point.

**********

Cirrus, I also suspect that the unpredictable future of the national and state economies might be the crucial factor in determining the level of available money in 2017 or 2018. If, as I suspect, the federal government will embark on large public work related programs, then getting a billion dollars for a small expansion would be easy and getting larger amounts of money more likely.

Whether the economy contracts due to international competition or to political incompetence on a federal level is immaterial: the economy will contract sooner or later as some form of mark to market adjustment occurs on our trillions of virtual assets.

When this occurs, public works will boom while the social safety net will fray. The cost of ramping up infrastructural improvements is far less than supporting a hugely bloated medical delivery system (with or without Obama care), and, as many governments have found out before, provides highly visible monuments to the government.

So, the ideas you bring up- and I do disagree with some- will be modified and, I believe, will be built.

[DenverInfill]

Regarding 38th vs. 32nd... 38th is an arterial with substantially higher traffic, a truck route, and bordered by mostly automobile-oriented development. 32nd is a minor collector at best and has more fine-grain, walkable development along it.

Regarding Larimer vs. Blake... Blake functions as an arterial with its couplet Market/Walnut and is in effect an extension of Auraria Parkway. It's very congested during rush hour, particularly southwest of Park Avenue. Also, if your goal is to use the streetcar to link to the Auraria Campus, Larimer Street penetrates into the campus, Blake does not.

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by Wizened Variations

If, as I suspect, the federal government will embark on large public work related programs, then getting a billion dollars for a small expansion would be easy and getting larger amounts of money more likely.

This is not a good answer for us right now. If our funding plan is "wait for magical money to fall from the federal government" then our best case scenario is that nothing will happen until that magical money starts falling. The only part anybody will notice is the instruction to "wait". Meanwhile, remember what happened with Obama's high speed rail money. When money did fall from the sky, the places that already had plans and some of their own funding were the ones that got federal dollars. The places that sat around waiting got nothing.

If we can't come up with something, that's not necessarily the end of the world. We still have a useful exercise here, that will get some attention and hopefully make some people excited. But it'll be a lot easier for naysayers to brush off as a fanboy fantasy than if we could point to money we can raise ourselves to get it built, and if it's constrained in some way by a practical (if back of the napkin) budget.

If we really wanted the best transit system, we'd forget about streetcars and draw up a 100-mile subway system. But we know that's not practical so we're trying to work within realistic means. I'd simply like to have something we can point to that says what our realistic means are, other than my vague sense it's somewhere around a billion dollars.

[jimluk]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Major comments below. If you made a comment or asked a question and I didn't respond, I apologize. Feel free to ask it again.

Route comments:

>> Highlands:
What's the advantage of 32nd over 38th? It saves us some cost, but it seems like 38th reaches more potential riders and has more TOD potential. But I can probably count on my fingers and toes the total number of times I've been in Highlands, so I'm happy to change it if that's the consensus.

I didn't check the zoning or what DPS owns but to me the Federal/32nd/Speer corner has a huge potential for redevelopment, everything bounded by say Speer/33rd/Eliot/Grove is disposable and could serve as a great end of the line station given some proper upzoning(not likely/probably illegal)

I think northern highland(along 38th) is better served by a future north line running from 38th/Blake through Gloveville and than west along 38/44th

Originally Posted by Cirrus

>> Cherry Creek:
1st Avenue is so wide, it seems like a good opportunity to take a lane. But if the geometrics don't work out then they don't work out. Assuming we switch to 2nd, where do we cut south? Fillmore? With a station in the middle of Fillmore between 1st & 2nd?

Fillmore is a no go politically I think. I think you slap could a parking garage in whole foods lot and run the trains under it. Problem solved? There are numerous routes through Cherry Creek:
-run South of the mall
---fewer people vs potential bed bath beyond/Elways etc site redevelopment
-run on 1st, turn south at Steele
---difficult intersection here and at 1st/University/york
-run on 2nd, turn south at Steele
-run on 1st or second over to Colorado blvd
---misses CC east residential cluster
-run south on one of the streets between Steel and Colorado(perhaps Madison or Monroe)
---goes through the heart of high rise residential

Also will the mall even bet there in its current form in 10-20 years? Mall life cycles are notoriously short and we have seen many other malls torn up for street grids. CC mall is more successful than others but the site has far more redevelopment pressure than Westminister/Southglenn/Villa Italia etc. How long has the Saks space been vacant now?

Originally Posted by Cirrus

>> Cheesman Park:
How do we feel about accessing Josephine/York from Colfax rather than Broadway?

To me this is a viable option as long as the Broadway line still goes as planned, if cherry creek is a carrot that helps get Broadway over a hurdle than that is more important. Josephine/York have very limited ROW, but I believe they also have street parking that could be sacrificed, either way it is a fight. Whether 6th/8th or Josephine/York these "areas of stability" neighborhoods are going to put up a fight, especially since we have no currently operating streetcars to point at as examples, everyone and their dog will think they are getting Light Rail right in front of their house.

As an Aside I thought about this as an extension of my previous Uptown Line. Prospect/AS/Uptown/St Lukes/City Park/Colfax/Botanic Gardens/Cherry Creek/Glendale/Colorado Blvd sounds nice, if a bit circuitous. Would losing a direct connection from SE neighborhoods to Denver Health be a factor?

Originally Posted by Cirrus

>> Colfax to Decatur:
Still very interested in hearing more about how best to accomplish this connection. I'm far from convinced my proposed BRT line is the best option, but equally far from convinced of any alternatives.

Just occurred to me to extend the Larimer streetcar/BRT along the existing Old South Colfax/Walnut Street underpass. I honestly don't think that completely closing that road to cars would hurt anyone except maybe Broncos fans 8 days a year.(maybe local truck traffic?) Did the quick google street view tour and I it looks like there is plenty of ROW to work with if the section under I25 was either shared with cars/closed to cars.

Added the Old South Colfax Larimer extension and Arapahoe Sq Uptown options to the map. Obviously this map is currently showing many redundant or future lines given our budgetary limitations, the idea was just to see them all in one place and explore some alternatives.
http://goo.gl/maps/iMuid

[Interzen]

Originally Posted by jimluk

Just occurred to me to extend the Larimer streetcar/BRT along the existing Old South Colfax/Walnut Street underpass. I honestly don't think that completely closing that road to cars would hurt anyone except maybe Broncos fans 8 days a year.(maybe local truck traffic?) Did the quick google street view tour and I it looks like there is plenty of ROW to work with if the section under I25 was either shared with cars/closed to cars.

Added the Old South Colfax Larimer extension and Arapahoe Sq Uptown options to the map. Obviously this map is currently showing many redundant or future lines given our budgetary limitations, the idea was just to see them all in one place and explore some alternatives.
http://goo.gl/maps/iMuid

I thought about this route as an extension of a Colfax line that paralleled RTD's tracks from 7th St. to 5th St., then turned north on 5th. The line could either follow Walnut towards the Decatur station or follow the northern branch of walnut and cross under 25 on a new bridge then around the north side of Mile High to Federal.

At first glance these routes seem outrageously expensive to lay track for streetcars.

The Decatur destination would be a hard sell as it directly duplicates the west light rail for two stops. I can't see the expense justified if it's just to avoid one transfer for people coming from and going to the federal line. That's why I started looking at other endpoints but I don't think any will justify the cost for SC under 25 and across the river.

Closing the street to the public and running BRT might be appropriate on that route either as an extension from a Larimer or Colfax line to Decatur. It could be sold as a game day traffic/parking reduction measure too, although I don't know how much Denver residents really care about a bit of traffic downtown on a few Sundays.

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Major comments below. If you made a comment or asked a question and I didn't respond, I apologize. Feel free to ask it again.

Route comments:

>> Highlands:
What's the advantage of 32nd over 38th? It saves us some cost, but it seems like 38th reaches more potential riders and has more TOD potential. But I can probably count on my fingers and toes the total number of times I've been in Highlands, so I'm happy to change it if that's the consensus.

It would be nice to reach the 38th and Tennyson neighborhood eventually. I think that area could feed strong ridership and 38th seems poised for faster densification than areas to the south in my opinion

>> Cherry Creek:
1st Avenue is so wide, it seems like a good opportunity to take a lane. But if the geometrics don't work out then they don't work out. Assuming we switch to 2nd, where do we cut south? Fillmore? With a station in the middle of Fillmore between 1st & 2nd?

I think a train down 2nd might be a harder sell to the Cherry Creek North merchants than on 1st. I can see parking loss, noise, congestion, and through ridership to Colorado of 'Non-CCNorth Patrons' all being brought up, rightfully or not.

>> Cheesman Park:
How do we feel about accessing Josephine/York from Colfax rather than Broadway?

It would be a shame not to access the retail along 6th and collect ridership from south Cap Hill. The trade-off would be a Josaphine/York couplet ranging up to 325ft between directions verses a 6th/8th couplet running 1250 ft apart which seems too far.

If we could get ROW to return on the north side of 6th it would be the best in my opinion but it would be a battle for sure.

>> 11th Street line:
That's not a bad idea but would it really be our highest next priority? We're leaving a lot out, like MLK, Alameda, and Santa Fe itself. Assuming we wanted to add one more line (which I'm not sure we do, but for the sake of discussion), is that the one we'd add? Also, is that a higher priority than doing streetcar instead of BRT in RiNo and out to Decatur?

Probably not, unless we don't get a Decatur connection from CCS. In that case, it's 1.3 miles from the 10th/Osage station to The Decatur station via Osage/13th/Decatur. This offers a second transfer option from the west line to the D,F, and H lines hopefully decreasing the need for a long layover. It would also connect the South Broadway streetcar nicely with all the current light rail lines. If it was the only option from the west accessing CCS I think it would be well utilized. This would obviously be different then the 11th line previously proposed that continued on 11th east of Broadway so I guess this is slightly off point.

13th ave is zoned as an area of change and Sun Valley is being offered up for complete redevelopment. A BRT line through there may seem appropriate eventually if it builds up as hoped.

>> Broadway to RiNo:
I'm not sure why we'd need to connect RiNo to Civic Center via Broadway when we'll already have the Welton connection. Most people in greater 5 Points are going to be in walking distance to both the Welton and RiNo lines, so if we're going to have them both then it makes sense to me to send them to different places. We have 2 main downtown hubs (Civic Center & DUS), so to me that's a natural: send 1 line to each hub. Am I missing some important reason why they both need to go to Civic Center?

Depends where the RINO line runs, but the lines would be either 2400 or 3100 ft apart everywhere south east of 31st. I'm not sure people would walk past one to reach the other. Those in between would likely choose which to use based on destination.

>> Larimer vs Blake
Larimer is closer to existing density and the rest of 5 Points, Blake has more future TOD potential. We also need to consider whether one or the other can accommodate dedicated lanes, because that will affect whether or not BRT is a good alternate. What does everyone else think?

My gut says Blake unless Brighton gets it's own line. I foresee much more density developing between the river and Larimer than I do south of Lawrence, and pedestrian connections at 31st and 35th along with an improved tunnel at 38th could serve Brighton Blvd residences OK, for the near future at least.

>> Colfax to Decatur:
Still very interested in hearing more about how best to accomplish this connection. I'm far from convinced my proposed BRT line is the best option, but equally far from convinced of any alternatives.

I agree, it's hard too see a clean, affordable solution. Separated BRT seems hard from a ROW perspective on Colfax west of CCS.

Mixed traffic streetcar certainly seems feasible on Colfax all the way to Auraria but get's tricky west of there. Also as you pointed out it messes with the concept of multiple lines feeding directly into a high frequency spine unless the West Colfax line is run separately, requiring an additional transfer. For those traveling from east Colfax, is there any advantage over transferring further north and entering the campus via Larimer. I suppose it would be less convenient for Community College of Denver students, but more convenient for CU Denver students.

A combination of a BRT line from Decatur to 10th/Osage via 13th then somehow to Civic Center combined with a BRT or SC from the Auraria West station across the central spine might be sufficient for serving the campus and connecting the Federal line and the west and south RTD lines to each other and to the proposed lines passing CCS. It would probobly be a hard sell to run through the underdeveloped, currently industrial section of 13th, but it's potentially better than running the same distance on a viaduct. At least 13th has potential for adding to ridership with an additional stop or two.

[Wizened Variations]

I think that the Cherry Creek Mall area, either via 1st or 2nd Ave is a definite non-starter. The area extending from approximately Mississippi and University north to the Botanic Gardens is rapidly evolving into Denver's urban Ritz, as measured by scrapes, and medium to high dollar townhomes. The commercial epicenter, between East 1st and East 3rd extending east from University (Josephine) to about S Adams is the center of an area that is rapidly becoming the high dollar, upper middle class to lower upper class enclave in the city of Denver.

Walk the streets sometime. Note that the architecture- in particular on the north side of E 1st across from the mall is directed towards investments, and how 2nd Ave is directed towards luxury.

The area does not want a street car, IMO. Most residents and businesses are very happy as things are. The business community, for example, is more than satisfied with the number of Mercedes and BMWs that park along 2nd.

The City of Denver likes both the steady tax income as well as the amount per capita property taxes the area generates.

I cannot imagine any public transit access anywhere near the epicenter of old money, the Denver Country Club (ok, I'll buy maybe a bus stop without a shelter for hired help, but no steel rail, no BRT, etc.)

North of East 1st and 2nd, I have noticed a large number of new homes that almost completely fill properties that used to have 3 bedroom brick bungalows.

Remember, that the development of the area (the first $1,000,000 condo in Denver was built about 1 block south of Cherry Creek on the east side of University) is marketed, and, promoted, as a well to do enclave, separate from the middle (and, good G*d, the lower) class. The enclave is rather like a small scale West Palm Beach, FL or La Jolla, CA, at least in terms of how residents want to portray themselves to be.

Imagine how well heeled clients would react to the idea that the 30th and Downing Syndrome could happen in their area!

(this is one of the few areas in Denver metro that a couple of hundred residents could afford 3 or 4 hundred thousand dollars in political donations between them. At ~$10/vote for the Denver City Council...)

[duderino]

Long time reader, first time poster. Would hate to see this thread die...so I'll post some thoughts on the Colfax/Decatur to Civic Center question:

The W line is already almost there. The tracks for the W line are basically already connected to the tracks towards Colfax/Auraria (really, it's ridiculous that RTD RIPPED OUT the 100 feet or so of connecting tracks that existed there before). The W line, as any logical person would agree, should interline with the F/H/D into central downtown, sending every other train to the loop. DUS is great and all, but it's not where the jobs are right now (or in the future). Of course, the problem with this is that the loop is clogged already because it runs on the surface.

This will be a problem for the F/H/D lines sooner rather than later too, as they're pretty much maxed out on frequency and getting maxed out on 4-car trains that are filling up (can't do more frequent trains because of the signal timing issues they cause (not RTD's problem but CCD's); can't do more than 4-cars on the surface because of the block length downtown).

The obvious (to me) - and admittedly expensive - solution is to build the downtown underground spine, and at the same time put the loop underground, starting in the Convention Center. Put the spine under 17th, both directions, to the front of Union Station (doesn't have to directly connect to the new bus station). Put the F/H/D/and now W lines in it for a block, or for the whole length, as they make their loop. Make it a bus/LRT spine to get SOME buses off 15th/17th while you're at it. Leave the Mall Shuttle alone, it serves a different purpose, and does it well.

The spine would solve a lot of problems downtown, and should be the first priority. Could see it eventually extend west along 15th to Zuni, and east along Colfax to York. Beyond those points, density is low enough to run on the surface.

The underground loop should be second priority, and solves your Colfax/Decatur problem. (I could see this happening first though actually...it's a smaller scale project that could demonstrate the benefits of going underground...plus, there is a demonstrated near-term need for it (F/H/D capacity)).

[The Dirt]

This thread/plan needs more focus rather than being a comprehensive plan that nobody will agree on. Let's cut the BRT, concentrate on two or three main corridors, and forget about phases 2+ for now. We have yet to agree on the main lines. For example:
- Colfax line: where is the western end of line?
- Broadway: where is the northern end of line?
- Cherry Creek: which route and how does it connect to the other two lines?

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by The Dirt

This thread/plan needs more focus rather than being a comprehensive plan that nobody will agree on. Let's cut the BRT, concentrate on two or three main corridors, and forget about phases 2+ for now. We have yet to agree on the main lines. For example:
- Colfax line: where is the western end of line?
- Broadway: where is the northern end of line?
- Cherry Creek: which route and how does it connect to the other two lines?

I live off of Federal Blvd, why the hell should I support streetcars on these streets? They do nothing for me.

I think the purpose of the comprehensive plan comes from funding/public support perspective. If the funding mechanism is a citywide mill levy increase you want to provide as much service improvements as possible in several corridors city-wide in order to increase public support.

[Cirrus]

January and February are crazy busy months for me at work. I don't have time to work on a big project like this right now, which is why I haven't posted here lately. By all means, keep the discussion going. I'll come back to this when I have the capacity.

It would still be really helpful if we had some ballpark figure of what an achievable budget might be.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Things we need from someone now:

• Budget: We've talked about some funding mechanisms, but it would be nice to have some idea of how much money we can reasonably expect to use. Absent more detailed information, I'm very concerned that going above $1 billion (as we've already done) is going to be too cost prohibitive. Anyone want to work on this? Bunt?

So, let's get back to this. I could put together an order of magnitude capex, but that might not provide enough accuracy to reasonably talk about funding mechanisms. But, I need some sort of cost per mile as a basis.

[RyanD]

And then once that's figured out, let's get this on DenverUrbanism. We all have social media, we can all share it and spread it around. Ken will back us on the posts, I guarantee it, as long as we voice them in a 'moving forward', positive manner, which shouldn't be hard. I have logins, so does Dan. I'm sure, if Dan doesn't do the post, either of us would be fine posting on your behalf.

[bunt_q]

Funny, I actually printed out a handy dandy table of "transportation funding mechanisms" (local, Colorado) that I have, and I've been carrying it around all week for the next time I find myself at the bar with RyanD.

I really really need somebody with easy GIS access... spatial analysis capabilities, too, not just for pretty maps. If I can find that person, I'll get us the assessor database, and then we can do some real bona fide revenue analysis. (The cost estimation is the easy part.)

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

(The cost estimation is the easy part.)

At an order of magnitude level, yes. Which probably all you need for this purpose (Accurate cost estimates for a public project? Bah!).

Now if you want to get down to the +/- 10% capex range with any degree of confidence, it's going to be a bigger challenge. Or maybe we can go the RTD-esque route and just figure out what voters would support and estimate that's how much the project would cost.

[seventwenty]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

I really really need somebody with easy GIS access... spatial analysis capabilities, too, not just for pretty maps. If I can find that person, I'll get us the assessor database, and then we can do some real bona fide revenue analysis. (The cost estimation is the easy part.)

Free GIS for someone who doesn't want to pay for ARCMap: http://grass.osgeo.org/#

No idea how useful.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

I really really need somebody with easy GIS access... spatial analysis capabilities, too, not just for pretty maps. If I can find that person, I'll get us the assessor database, and then we can do some real bona fide revenue analysis. (The cost estimation is the easy part.)

We've got ArcGIS with the Spatial Analyst extension at the office in our Permitting and Technical Services Sections. Now ask me how to use it...

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

I could put together an order of magnitude capex, but that might not provide enough accuracy to reasonably talk about funding mechanisms. But, I need some sort of cost per mile as a basis.

Back on page 4 we set up cost estimates. Basically:

Streetcar in a transitway: 				$50 million / mile.
Streetcar in mixed traffic or a marked transit lane: 	$40 million / mile.
BRT in a full busway: 					$25 million / mile.
Priority bus in mixed traffic or a marked bus lane: 	 $4 million / mile

At those levels, our plan is somewhere around $1.2 billion right now.

For cost information, I think that's about good enough. All we're really shooting for here is a ballpark cost and a way to show that it's within the realm of the possible for the city (or whatever geography we pick) to fund. We don't need to get into the weeds of federal cost categories and inflation factors and whatnot, we just need to be able to say "this is on the scale of something the city could realistically do."

So we need to know what kind of revenue is politically palatable, and at what level. If it's only reasonable to raise $500 million over 30 years then we need to chop our plan in half if we want to say it's practical. On the other hand, if it turns out a palatable tax plan might raise $2 billion then we can beef up some of those bus lines.