vancouver pluses

[racc]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

And no, our roads are not much better than our transit system. Both need upgrades, and currently both are receiving the billions they need.

Well trivially you are right but roads and transit are being improved in different parts of the region. It is not like the Canada Line is doing people in Surrey and Langley much good.

The road network in Surrey and Langley is much better than the transit network, you can't deny that can you? So what is the government doing? Investing billions in roads and very little in transit in that part of the region. It is not like twenty buses over the Port Mann is going to make much of a difference. Oh yeah, and some rapid bus by 2020. Big deal.

Some people are so stuck in the automobile world they don't realize how stuck they are. I suggest travelling a bit. I went all around Europe last spring. We are so far behind in transit and rail and getting further behind all the time. For a region with only 2 million people, we have plenty of roads if we only used them wisely and gave people real transportation choices.

[Vancity]

Originally Posted by racc

From Price Tags, credits in bottom of photo.

That would have been horrible. I'm sooo glad it didn't materialize. It almost looks like any other US city (i.e. Chicago) with that kind of freeway system. Can you say - urban sprawl?

[vansky]

Originally Posted by Vancity

That would have been horrible. I'm sooo glad it didn't materialize. It almost looks like any other US city (i.e. Chicago) with that kind of freeway system. Can you say - urban sprawl?

Well, good highways, good density, i'm sure this city's smart enough to achieve a balance in the end. We got too many genius.

[Metro-One]

Some people are so stuck in the automobile world they don't realize how stuck they are. I suggest traveling a bit. I went all around Europe last spring. We are so far behind in transit and rail and getting further behind all the time. For a region with only 2 million people, we have plenty of roads if we only used them wisely and gave people real transportation choices.

Funny, i have been through Europe and parts of Asia, and i see a good balance or rail and road infrastructure that are both decades ahead of ours, you were only looking at one side, i was looking at both.

And vansky, your highway ideas are to far, that original plan was a bad plan and we ended up with a great alignment of the #1

Thats what i hate here, it is either everything highway nuts or no highway at all nuts. Am i the only pro transportation nut? (good rail, highways and bike networks?)

[Distill3d]

Originally Posted by racc

That would would have been horrible. Take a look at this beauty. The infamous trench down Thurlow Street. Yikes.

From Price Tags, credits in bottom of photo.

Vancouver would have looked like Coquitlam is going to look after the Highway 1 Expansion.

i think i'm going to throw up...

[racc]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Funny, i have been through Europe and parts of Asia, and i see a good balance or rail and road infrastructure that are both decades ahead of ours, you were only looking at one side, i was looking at both.

Sure, maybe the roads are ten years ahead while the rail is 40 years ahead.

But how on earth are we ever going to get balance by building more highways and delaying rail and transit investments by decades in the valley?

[johnjimbc]

I respectfully suggest that if the distilled argument is that False Creek and Coal Harbour should have stayed industrial or been turned into freeways because the current neighborhoods of condos, apartments, and huge swaths of public park green space was a "bad" decision, here's hoping that Vancouver continues to make such devastatingly poor decisions in the future.

And, no, I'm not an "anti-car" kinda guy. I have no illusions cars will - or should - vanish from the universe. I do hope they'll be cleaner and eco-friendly. I also hope cities will continue to be planned so that transit and smart urban design will make car-free living viable.

[Distill3d]

Originally Posted by johnjimbc

I respectfully suggest that if the distilled argument is that False Creek and Coal Harbour should have stayed industrial or been turned into freeways because the current neighborhoods of condos, apartments, and huge swaths of public park green space was a "bad" decision, here's hoping that Vancouver continues to make such devastatingly poor decisions in the future.

And, no, I'm not an "anti-car" kinda guy. I have no illusions cars will - or should - vanish from the universe. I do hope they'll be cleaner and eco-friendly. I also hope cities will continue to be planned so that transit and smart urban design will make car-free living viable.

Having a freeway through downtown would've turned us into Toronto with its Gardiner Expressway, and who really wants that? I mean, its bad enough we have the railway tracks along the north end of downtown. I don't care how much that costs, we should bury them or build more over top of them. I'm not sure who killed the Waterfront Stadium idea, but we should forward that photo on to them and say "does this look like an inviting downtown?"

[SpongeG]

those beaches near burrard bridge would have been useless too as the freeway ran over them

but i understand what jjb is saying about the condos at false creek - it was some of the only industrial lands and was a source for jobs that is gone - mostly to the burbs and thus people need to drive more to get out to the jobs instead of staying close in the city to work

[jlousa]

I can't comment for Asia but I can for Western Europe, their highway system while superior to ours is much much different. Almost all freeways are tolled, no problem there. The biggest difference is for the most part people do not commute via highways like they do here. The highway system skirts most towns/cities and is a way to traverse larger distances and not a way to get to work. Most Europeans do not use their freeways daily, only when traveling to their summer place or to visit relatives. The thought of having to take a highway to get to work would be mind boggling to most Europeans, they would prefer to live closer to work, or work closer to home. Obviously there are some expectations.

[fever]

Metro, you'd love Mike Harcourt. He supports building absolutely everything, and he's honest enough to support taxing absolutely everything to pay for it. It's just not realistic to expect unlimited resources will be made available or the political support will be there to raise taxes.

I agree with jlo on this (and most things it seems).

If the limiting factor on the number of people using freeways is how willing they are to sit in traffic, we can expect congestion to reach a similar steady state as today no matter how many new lanes are built. It just doesn't take that many people accepting a longer commute to clog any investment in freeways. The limiting factor on the number of people commuting on freeways has to be changed to something else, anything else, for congestion to improve. Congestion charging gets right to the point. Raising gas taxes is easy. Hell, making the driving test retard-resistant would take 30% of people off the road. Making transit faster than driving also works, but it takes time, is expensive, and requires development be concentrated around transit.

[Metro-One]

I 100% support distance based freeway tolls. I think its a great idea since the alignment of our highways (including the new SFPR) are perfect for region to region European/Asian driving and people who can live closer to work should. Highways are the easy target when thinking about sprawl, there are many other factors at work, and zoning to me is the largest of them. Only a limited area of land should be reserved for residential. All other areas should be strictly reserved for agriculture, industry, commercial space and parkland. So i do not believe building a highway to take industrial traffic off local roads and properly (and directly) connect traffic coming from the interior to the ferries will cause sprawl if the cities manage the land properly surrounding it.

think about this trip (which i have made many times) from maple Ridge to the ferry - currently one has to go down the Lougheed through Pitt meadows, cross the Pitt River, then go along the Mary Hill bypass, then go on the #1 for a few km, then drive right through downtown New Westminster, then go on the 91, then go on the 99 and then finally go on the 17.

Within a few years the same trip will be less than half the time and kilometers for all on e will have to do is take the Golden Ears bridge and then take the SFPR straight to the #17

That is called building decent highway networks, and again, none of these highways are going through town/city centers back are skirting the boundaries, just like a European network, the only thing we are missing in these improvements are tolls, which i think should be implemented.

think of all the industrial traffic that will not have to roar through New West or the residential streets of Surrey and Delta, the container trucks, cement trucks, delivery trucks, contractors vehicles, buses, fuel trucks, dump trucks etc... are not going to disappear no matter how good transit becomes.

Again i also support a full transit system being built as well, but i personally feel a commuter rail service is best for the Valley right now (akin to the WCE, which should be more frequent) and any trams networks desired should be funded by the cities (such as what Vancouver is doing now) but operated by Translink. This would go great with the expo line extension which i also fully support (i love skytrain, i support all its extensions and hope to see them fast tracked, i feel we should build quality not quantity, and quality is what a fully automatic grade separated metro systems gives an area) The reason why European and Asian cities now can build extensive light rail and tram networks is because while we were sitting around with our thumbs up our bums those countries built their extensive metro, regional rail and high quality freeway systems. So with their foundations done now they can work on the trimmings.

But i also agree with stricter driving tests, there are a lot of people who should not be on the road. This would help make the roads safer fro everyone too.

[giallo]

Vancouver pluses for me:

The weather. Most cities on this planet don't have nice weather, people. There is the odd region that does, but honestly, Vancouver's weather isn't that bad. Try living in Shanghai in the summer. It's hell on earth. The winters are cold and humid too.

The food. Vancouver is one of my favourite cities for food. I've been around this little planet of ours, and Vancouver kicks some serious booty in the culinary department.

Downtown/Kits/Broadway/Commercial areas. I love these spots. They're full of people, shops, patios, parks etc. Just a lovely city to pass the time.


Bah. Now I'm all homesick. At least I've got the Canucks on Team 1040. Canucks 1 - St. Louis 0

[raggedy13]

^Thanks for getting this thread back on track. The next highway related post in this thread will be deleted! Please stay on topic here people.