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  #41  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2009, 8:46 AM
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he's an SSP forumer... what's his username again?
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  #42  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2009, 9:13 AM
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^paradigm4 I believe.

Gangs would have nothing to gain by killing an innocent, concerned citizen. The recent killings have brought more awareness and public uproar than any organized protests could accomplish anyways. Targeting the organizers of such events would if anything effectively turn them into martyrs, rallying even more of the public to the cause.
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  #43  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2009, 1:27 PM
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I agree with raggedy. I dont think he has to be concerned about beocming a target lol. canadianmind and distill are being a bit too paranoid.

good job Paul for organizing an event like that
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  #44  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2009, 1:45 PM
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^there's a difference between being paranoid and stating an obvious fact. Surrey is known for its gang activity
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  #45  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2009, 5:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Distill3d View Post
^there's a difference between being paranoid and stating an obvious fact. Surrey is known for its gang activity
What the gangs have been doing is stupid, but anything seen as a targeted hit on somebody who has been organizing protests, or a member of the police investigating these crimes, or a politician, etc. would likely spur the involvement of the Canadian Forces, no joke. These guys are idiots, but I'm pretty sure they aren't that stupid.

Kudos to Paul and Trevor for organizing this. The only thing that motivates politicians is elections, since we have one in May I think it's everyone's duty to make sure their MLA knows solving this is should be #1 on the agenda (or a close #2 behind the economy).
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  #46  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2009, 5:41 PM
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What the gangs have been doing is stupid, but anything seen as a targeted hit on somebody who has been organizing protests, or a member of the police investigating these crimes, or a politician, etc. would likely spur the involvement of the Canadian Forces, no joke. These guys are idiots, but I'm pretty sure they aren't that stupid.

Kudos to Paul and Trevor for organizing this. The only thing that motivates politicians is elections, since we have one in May I think it's everyone's duty to make sure their MLA knows solving this is should be #1 on the agenda (or a close #2 behind the economy).
the only time the Canadian Forces have had to step in because of gang activitiy is during the October Crisis. and the FLQ had to kill a friend of Pierre Trudeau's before he enacted the War Measures Act. and prior to the WMA being enacted, the FLQ were responsible for 200 bombings, including the Montreal Stock Exchange. the FLQ was also trying to spread the message for Quebecs succession from Canada.

this is apples and oranges.

we're talking about an organized group of street thugs that have somehow ascertained weapons and drugs. now they're going on a shooting spree like this place is the wild west. suffice to say, i highly doubt the Canadian Forces would step in just because a cop, a member of the public speaking out against gang warfare, or a politician was killed by a gang member. thats just ludicrous. this is, and will continue to be a police matter.

and if the military did step in and get involved, they would have to do the same in every Canadian city, coast to coast, in order to eradicate this problem.

now who's being paranoid?
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  #47  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2009, 6:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Distill3d View Post
the only time the Canadian Forces have had to step in because of gang activitiy is during the October Crisis. and the FLQ had to kill a friend of Pierre Trudeau's before he enacted the War Measures Act. and prior to the WMA being enacted, the FLQ were responsible for 200 bombings, including the Montreal Stock Exchange. the FLQ was also trying to spread the message for Quebecs succession from Canada.
Well, things are different now than they were in the 70s with respect to all things security related. I agree that the FLQ crisis was a much bigger deal than the gang shootings here, at least so far. But when public officials start getting targetted I still think all options are on the table. Again, I don't think gangs are that stupid.

If you look back at the FLQ timeline, Trudeau put the army on the streets before enacting the WMA or suspending any civil rights, so those things don't necessarily go hand in hand. There are a few things to consider though

1) Trudeau was a strong federalist and a strong individual leader, so his reaction was strong due to the nature of the problem.

2) Lets face it, the problem was centered around Quebec and Ottawa, places that get more focus than Vancouver.

How far do things have to escalate? I'm not being paranoid, I'm just trying to think of what could happen given further escalations outside criminals shooting each other. A commentator on CKNW mentioned that the premiers of the provinces have the power to call in the Army if they don't think their local police can control the situation. I'm not sure how that works legally.
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  #48  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2009, 6:47 PM
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Last night's shootings were three blocks away from my house - they have been moving steadily closer and closer as the weeks are going on. I would have gone to the protest had I heard about it beforehand. Not really what one wants to think of when they think of Spectacular By Nature.
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  #49  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2009, 2:41 AM
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Originally Posted by raggedy13 View Post
Gangs would have nothing to gain by killing an innocent, concerned citizen. The recent killings have brought more awareness and public uproar than any organized protests could accomplish anyways. Targeting the organizers of such events would if anything effectively turn them into martyrs, rallying even more of the public to the cause.
Shits and giggles. The same Reason I don't go putting my name and face up on a national newspage; Because f the possibility that due to the nature of my job people will use my identity to hunt me or my family down and capture/kill them off, merely for shits and giggles.

I as an individual have little effect on the war overseas, but skinning my family alive in some makeshift habbojula cave would have a major PR effect regardless. Gangs aren't as crazy, so they might just take a pot shot at the organisers, or some kids trying to stir up trouble.



Btw, an interesting comment that one of my bosses made at work today - He is of the opinion that it is the anti-olympic groups making somewhat random killings in order to stir up shit for the olympics, which would make them a terrorist group.
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  #50  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2009, 3:25 AM
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None of these people are stupid, their businessman, only difference is that their rules are different as they dont have a court system to fall back on. In the real world you threaten to sue someone, in their world that isnt a option so a threat of bodily harm or death has to do, and you have to carrry out those threats to make them mean anything.

Dont worry they dont give a crap about what these protesters say or do as their not a threat in the slightest way, hell they might just take out their competition and make the business more profitable + risky, but risk is why its profitable in the first place and why someone can make millions if they have the right attitude and a good head on their shoulders....and big balls.

Anyways someone has to supply the dope right, imagine everyone having to grow their own...sounds like a pain in the ass, imagine everyone having to grow their own vegitables...just doesnt make sense.


I should add that lumping gangs and organized crime in to one pile is stupid. Also the weakenin of the HA's monopoly doesnt help, sometimes people have to be carefull what they wish fore.
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  #51  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2009, 4:40 AM
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The Canadian Forces have been called in to other situations as well, they dealt with prison riots in the past and were also called in Oka during the standoff. But I agree I don't see it happening here nor is there the need at this point.
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  #52  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2009, 5:29 AM
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^nor will there be a need for it. seems the gang violence comes in spurts here. it'll die down and go away soon.
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  #53  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2009, 5:56 AM
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i agree. this guy will be a gang target now. in fact, i would not be surprised, given the location of the event, if there were gang members watching the event.
yea cause they have nothing better to do.

frankly i would be very surprised.
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  #54  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2009, 5:33 AM
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Sledge hammer attack leaves Bacon brothers gang associate in hospital

VANCOUVER — An associate of the Bacon brothers targeted in a shooting last month was critically injured in a sledgehammer beating Sunday night, The Vancouver Sun has learned.

RCMP Cpl. Peter Thiessen said he could not confirm that Tyler Willock was the victim, but did say a young man was attacked at a Langley home at about 7 p.m. Sunday and is in serious condition in hospital. He is expected to survive.

“We are not in a position to confirm the identity publicly because he is the victim,” Thiessen said, adding that the RCMP does not normally confirm the identities of victims. “We are dealing with a file where a man was attacked.”

He said he could not comment on whether there are suspects in the beating or what the motive might be, but said “we are not looking for any public assistance at this time.”

Willock was a passenger in the back seat of a Range Rover that was shot several times Feb. 16 at an intersection near T-Barz strip club on East Whalley Ring Road in Surrey.

Willock was not injured, though police confirmed last week that he was the intended target of the shooting. The vehicle driver was hit by gunfire, but not seriously injured.

Two members of the United Nations gang, including de facto leader Barzan Tilli-Choli, and three UN associates, were charged last week in connection with the shooting.

Tilli-Choli, 26, and associates Aram Ali, 23, and Nicola Cottrell, 26, each face two counts of attempted murder and briefly appeared in Surrey Provincial Court Tuesday.

UN member Karwan Saed, who is facing one count of accessory after the fact, also appeared in court. The case was put over until March 17 to fix a date for a bail hearing. A fifth accused, 28-year-old Sarah Jane Trebble, is facing one count of being in a vehicle with a firearm present. She is out of jail and due back in court March 20.

There were metal detectors and extra sheriffs at Surrey Provincial Court for the appearances in the high-security courtroom 107.

Police say Willock is an associate of the three Bacon brothers, Jonathan, Jarrod and Jamie, who are members of the Red Scorpions gang and have been targets of several attempts on their lives.

For almost a year, there has been a very public war between the UN and the Red Scorpions —leading to several police warnings to steer clear of the Bacon brothers and their associates because they had been targeted for death by rivals.

In fact, the two younger brothers, Jamie and Jarrod, who are out on bail on a series of gun and drug charges, continue to be followed everywhere by Abbotsford police to ensure public safety, Abbotsford Mayor George Peary said this week.

“It is expensive, but public safety is number one. We'll spend whatever it costs to protect our citizens,” Peary said. “There is a palpable fear out there.”

And Jonathan, as well as associate Dennis Karbovanec, are being watched 24 hours a day, seven days a week by Port Moody police to ensure community safety.

The pair face joint fraud charges laid last week. Karbovanec is also out on bail on 11 gun charges laid after he was stopped last October in Abbotsford allegedly with a loaded handgun and silencer hidden in his vehicle.

Vancouver Police Insp. Mike Porteous said last week that the battle between the UN gang and the Red Scorpions started as a turf war.

“In this particular case they’re rival gangs who originally started out [fighting] over drug territory, but the violence is a back and forth that has been going on for some time now, but it is about territory and retribution,” he said.

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Sle...167/story.html
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  #55  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2009, 1:18 AM
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its becoming like a regular feature in the paper

Gun violence this weekend: three shootings in three days

An early morning shooting in Burnaby that sent a 29-year-old man to hospital was the latest in a string of three incidents that kept police busy all weekend.


Burnaby police are looking for a silver-coloured vehicle in connection to the shooting after witnesses reported that the car sped from the scene.


At about 3:15 a.m. Sunday, the man walked into a Shell station at Patterson and Kingsway, bleeding from his chest in what Burnaby RCMP believes is a targeted shooting.


The incident occurred at his home in the 4200-block of Grange St.


He was rushed to hospital, but remains uncooperative with police.


Meanwhile, at about 5:30 p.m. Friday, police were called to a shooting incident the area of 127A Street and 67 Avenue in Surrey, where a man in his mid-20s was injured after a shooting.


Surrey RCMP Insp. Dave Attfield said Saturday the victim was in hospital in stable condition following surgery, and is cooperating with police.


Just 12 hours later in Langley, Saturday morning, the body of a 36-year-old woman was found on the side of the road, the victim of an apparent targeted shooting.


Cpl. Dale Carr of the Integrated Homicide Investigation Team, said the shooting took place at 202A Street and 50th Avenue in Langley around 5 a.m. Saturday.


RCMP have identified the victim as Laura Lynn Lamoureux, 36. Carr said she is known to police for her involvement in the street level drug trade.


The incident appears to be linked to the street level drug trade, Carr said in a press release.

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/v...310/story.html
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