Historical Winnipeg discussion

[bryanscott]

Originally Posted by esquire

...It's the skinny and long U-shaped building in the centre-left that ends right at the old Salter Bridge...

Ah, didn't realize that it was no longer around. Looks like an interesting structure.

So many uncelebrated—and undocumented—industrial buildings that have been lost over the years. Makes me wish I was active with my camera a lot earlier than I was.

[esquire]

^ If I ever get access to a time machine, the first thing I'm going to do is send you and your camera back to Winnipeg circa 1912!

[drew]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ If I ever get access to a time machine, the first thing I'm going to do is send you and your camera back to Winnipeg circa 1912!

If we are going back in time, I would suggest somewhere from around 1925 to 1939. Pre-WW2, with the city having sometime to grow into itself, while all or most of the original buildings still remained from the boom times.

Somebody make it happen!

Or, if nothing else, maybe Andy6 can post his entire collection of historical photographs that he has teased us with small excerpts of...

[esquire]

^ Yes, you engineering and design guys, make it happen!

If you really must know, the time in Winnipeg's visual history that I find most fascinating is that postwar period from the 50s to the 70s. Recent enough that it doesn't feel like ancient history, but still far back enough that many more vestiges of Old Winnipeg were still around.

Also, for whatever reason, photographs from that era (especially the 50s) seem relatively rare. Many photos from the boom periods have been unearthed and published in books or online, and recent years (say, the last 20 years or so) have been well documented too. But there is a stretch there from which we just don't see all that many good photos.

[DavefromSt.Vital]

Empire Hotel - Bought by GWL in the 1970s and demolished as too expensive to repair in 1982:

http://www.mhs.mb.ca/docs/sites/empirehotel.shtml

http://wbi.lib.umanitoba.ca/Winnipeg...ing.jsp?id=369

The York underpass was not expanded from its tiny and decrepit state until the 1990s and to the best of my knowledge had nothing to do with the hotel's demolition. In the meantime, it would be interesting to know if GWL still owned that lot.

Fort Garry Court - Destroyed by fire in early 1976. I still remember as a child riding on the 14 past the "Ice Palace", as the Free Press referred to the ice encrusted remains.

http://www.mhs.mb.ca/docs/sites/fortgarrycourt.shtml

http://wbi.lib.umanitoba.ca/Winnipeg...ing.jsp?id=402

[bomberjet]

The York underpass was a political want in the lead up to the Pan Am games, to allow easy access across into the Forks.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

The York underpass was a political want in the lead up to the Pan Am games, to allow easy access across into the Forks.

As I recall Susan Thompson was really advocating for a new underpass there before the Pan Am Games... the old one was an ugly timber frame structure that was regarded as a bit of an embarrassment considering it was the gateway to one of the city's most significant sites.

The lead up to the PAG was kind of a crazy time... there was this urgent sense that we had to clean up the city, which led to, among other things, the demolition of a big chunk of the old Main Street strip. I guess the city had to be ready in case some Venezuelan shot-put coach decided to take a long stroll...

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by esquire

As I recall Susan Thompson was really advocating for a new underpass there before the Pan Am Games... the old one was an ugly timber frame structure that was regarded as a bit of an embarrassment considering it was the gateway to one of the city's most significant sites.

The lead up to the PAG was kind of a crazy time... there was this urgent sense that we had to clean up the city, which led to, among other things, the demolition of a big chunk of the old Main Street strip. I guess the city had to be ready in case some Venezuelan shot-put coach decided to take a long stroll...

I thought that the York underpass was related to a plan to redirect the traffic from the reconfigured Provencher bridge on to York and St Mary rather than Pioneer and Water.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Yes, you engineering and design guys, make it happen!

If you really must know, the time in Winnipeg's visual history that I find most fascinating is that postwar period from the 50s to the 70s. Recent enough that it doesn't feel like ancient history, but still far back enough that many more vestiges of Old Winnipeg were still around.

Also, for whatever reason, photographs from that era (especially the 50s) seem relatively rare. Many photos from the boom periods have been unearthed and published in books or online, and recent years (say, the last 20 years or so) have been well documented too. But there is a stretch there from which we just don't see all that many good photos.

They're more common in the 1912 period because of the photo postcard craze that was peaking at that time. That's what virtually all of those photos really are. I probably have 500 or more of them showing Winnipeg scenes. After 1913, there are far fewer and I have to rely mostly on finding the odd 7x9 photo for sale on eBay or from antique dealers. They aren't common. I have a couple dozen from c. 1920 to the 1960s, maybe.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Andy6

I thought that the York underpass was related to a plan to redirect the traffic from the reconfigured Provencher bridge on to York and St Mary rather than Pioneer and Water.

That plan was on the books for many years but at some point in the mid 90s they gave up on it... I'm not certain but I thought it was well before the new York underpass was built.

From a traffic standpoint that plan would have made good sense, as York can often be gridlocked at rush hour, especially near The Forks. I don't recall exactly why it was scrapped, although I'd guess that having a busy, moderately high-speed route running through The Forks would have effectively cut off the northern part of the site from the rest of the area.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by esquire

That plan was on the books for many years but at some point in the mid 90s they gave up on it... I'm not certain but I thought it was well before the new York underpass was built.

From a traffic standpoint that plan would have made good sense, as York can often be gridlocked at rush hour, especially near The Forks. I don't recall exactly why it was scrapped, although I'd guess that having a busy, moderately high-speed route running through The Forks would have effectively cut off the northern part of the site from the rest of the area.

Maybe they got funding for it and had obtained the agreement of CN in anticipation of the realigned bridge approach, and went ahead anyway even after the realignment was scrapped. There were certainly other reasons to fix up that rickety little tunnel.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by DavefromSt.Vital

Empire Hotel - Bought by GWL in the 1970s and demolished as too expensive to repair in 1982:

http://www.mhs.mb.ca/docs/sites/empirehotel.shtml

http://wbi.lib.umanitoba.ca/Winnipeg...ing.jsp?id=369

The York underpass was not expanded from its tiny and decrepit state until the 1990s and to the best of my knowledge had nothing to do with the hotel's demolition. In the meantime, it would be interesting to know if GWL still owned that lot.

Fort Garry Court - Destroyed by fire in early 1976. I still remember as a child riding on the 14 past the "Ice Palace", as the Free Press referred to the ice encrusted remains.

It was a macabre sight. I don't think the buses had numbers then ... It was just "Ellice - Ferry Road" ... There was always the odd paradox that "our" bus was named after streets clear across town that we'd never been to.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by drew

If we are going back in time, I would suggest somewhere from around 1925 to 1939. Pre-WW2, with the city having sometime to grow into itself, while all or most of the original buildings still remained from the boom times.

Somebody make it happen!

Or, if nothing else, maybe Andy6 can post his entire collection of historical photographs that he has teased us with small excerpts of...

You'll have to wait for the $49.99 coffee table book. Actually, a lot of that stuff is on Flickr under my secret name wintorbos.

[Bdog]

Originally Posted by trueviking

I wish they had kept those. Very cool.

Can see here where they were.

I always kind of wished those freight sheds had been saved. Maybe one day they would have been converted into restaurants and bars, with the loading docks transformed into patios, a la Yaletown. One can dream...

[bomberjet]

Old Winnipeg was so cool.

[Andy6]

That overview of the Forks looks like it's being taken from inside the Richardson Building, so it's late 60s at the earliest. No sign of the Canada Grains Commission building - that's still a big parking lot on Main Street. So likely date on this is 1969.

[drew]

Looks like that stretch of Main has been experiencing a parking lot "shuffle".

Lost a surface lot for the Grain Exchange, gained two surface lots for the Empire and Fort Garry Court apartments. Lost one surface lot for the Sport Manitoba Building, gained a couple near what is now Earls...

Totally off topic, but what was the cause of the Fort Garry Court apartment fire? It seems very convenient that it happened during the construction of the current Wawanesa building, and providing it with ample cheap surface parking...

[cllew]

^^^ MY dad delivered mail there for years up to his retirement in 1975 and he mentioned after the fire that the building had a lot of garbage chute fires over the years.

I guess people back then would put cigarettes in the garbage that were not out and then eventually empty their apartment garbage in the chute where after some time the dumpster at the bottom would go up in flames. Maybe this was one that was not found in time to be a minor fire. Unfortunately 4 or 5 people died in this fire.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by cllew

^^^ MY dad delivered mail there for years up to his retirement in 1975 and he mentioned after the fire that the building had a lot of garbage chute fires over the years.

I guess people back then would put cigarettes in the garbage that were not out and then eventually empty their apartment garbage in the chute where after some time the dumpster at the bottom would go up in flames. Maybe this was one that was not found in time to be a minor fire. Unfortunately 4 or 5 people died in this fire.

I think it was ten. It was a horrific fire, probably the last of the pre-smoke detector era.

[cllew]

Originally Posted by Andy6

I think it was ten. It was a horrific fire, probably the last of the pre-smoke detector era.

Just checked the WFD museum web site and it said 5 people died and 175 left homeless.

A report by Public Safety Canada Emergency Planning area on the fire said there was a working fire alarm system but it was subject to false alarms. One resident interview for the report said it would go off 2 to 3 times a week and maybe as much again on Saturday and Sunday.

Most of the residents ignored the alarm until they either smelled smoke or had other residents banging on the doors yelling fire.