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  #1  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2019, 3:17 PM
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If Maritime cities were home to millions

What would the layout look like? Would Saint John look like San Francisco and Boston had a baby?

Moncton, a flat city that looks like Calgary?

Would Fredericton be an east coast Ottawa? Where would the skyscrapers be?

Would the peninsula in SJ be covered in Skyscrapers or still historic? Would Fredericton have Skyscrapers going up the hill?

Tell me what you think they would look like!!
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  #2  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2019, 4:00 PM
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Originally Posted by KnoxfordGuy View Post

Moncton, a flat city that looks like Calgary?
Flat like Calgary? Wait what?

If Moncton pop was 1 million, it would look nothing like Calgary. Moncton-Dieppe-Riverview would most likely amalgamate. Skyscrapers would probably line both side of the river. 2 more river crossings would most likely be needed. One of these probably expanding Wheeler blvd over to Riverview at the Dieppe/Moncton Halls Creek boarder. The other probably down river near Chartersville road in Dieppe.

Either the above or, Moncton would sprawl closer to Shediac therefore creating an almost amalgamation between to two, while Riverview remains the same and Dieppe going off on their own wanting to be independent.
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Old Posted Dec 12, 2019, 4:01 PM
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For Fredericton, I suspect the flood plain and the historical district will limit skyscrapers in the downtown core. Maybe out on the west end there might be taller stuff, along with further inland in the railyards/ex grounds. I don't really see towers climbing the hill much; but low rises would probably replace a lot of the housing.
UNB will probably have to build some bigger buildings in the 10+ story range to handle the demand on their campus.

With a population of millions, I suspect Main Street and Union side would be our central commercial district with the towers filling the space from Maple down to the river basically, and extending to the Stone bridge to the east to the Nashwaak River to the west.

Marysville would probably be a solid town/small city cluster at those sizes, similar in size/scale to Woodstock or Sussex, with a Superstore/Sobeys and fast food restaurants and such. (2NC Walmart is close enough to serve it, though maybe one would be built on Route 8)

New Maryland would grow similar to Marysville, with multiple box stores setting up there (but like 2NC for Marysville, Regent Mall/Corbett Centre would probably limit New Maryland's growth a little)

Westmoreland bridge would probably be twinned with a commuter rail/LRT crossing there. We'd probably be up to 4 if not 5 river crossings, one or two being full highway crossing and the others more avenue like crossings with a pedestrian element.

On the southside, growth will probably sprawl in most directions, maybe more so towards Oromocto and towards Silverwood, though Hanwell will see significant growth.

On the northside we'll crawl up the Nashwaak and towards Mactaquac and fill in points in between like McLeod hill, but growth towards Maugerville probably won't be as much (due to flooding)

Route 8 would be twinned for a good distance up river, and have multiple exits into Marysville/Fredericton.

A proper Ring road would be needed on the north side, linking Route 8 to the TCH somewhere up river of the city.

On the southside depending on how the land fills up around Regent and the New Maryland highway, I could see them making a TCH Bypass Bypass; forking the TCH around Mazerolle Settlement and bringing it south of Hanwell/New Maryland and rejoining around Route 7.

Due to the hills, and the flood plain, I don't see much of a subway system on the southside; but I could see an LRT/commuter rail system. The north side I could see getting dense enough that it could get a subway line parallel to Main/union and maybe spreading away from the river, but I doubt we'd have more than 1 or 2 lines. (We'd probably still be talking about tunnelling under the old city centre, but the historical folks would be protesting it I'm sure )
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Old Posted Dec 12, 2019, 4:30 PM
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6 TO 8 LANE HIGHWAYS IN THE METRO AREAS AND MAYBE 6 LANES BETWEEN THE CITIES. Maybe a 4 lane bridge to PEI.
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  #5  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2019, 5:02 PM
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Originally Posted by PEI highway guy View Post
6 TO 8 LANE HIGHWAYS IN THE METRO AREAS
We already have a highway with at least 8 lanes in the Halifax metro area.


Source: Getty Images
https://www.gettyimages.ca/detail/ph...mage/486928832

It even gets jammed with traffic like you see in cities with millions of people:


Last edited by q12; Dec 12, 2019 at 5:14 PM.
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Old Posted Dec 12, 2019, 5:29 PM
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Saint John -----> Freddy super corridor!

Halifax at a million will get an NHL franchise to the ire of Quebec city that still has its current population. Halifax in my mind would be a nice mix of Boston's old world charm and Vancouver.

I too see Moncton as a Calgary (ish) city of a million. Well designed and easy to navigate (in comparison to other cities of a million).
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Old Posted Dec 12, 2019, 6:01 PM
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Looking at the bigger picture, I'd say that would give the Maritime provinces populations like this (rough gut feel)

* PEI: approaching 2M, with 1M in Charlottetown.
* New Brunswick: 5-6M, with 3+M in the Tricities, but the north would probably have a million spread among the other cities. The north would probably be growing again in this situation.
* Nova Scotia: ~8M. Halifax would probably be 2-3M as the Maritime Alphadog, but Sydney is probably close to the 1M point, Cape Breton in total at 1.5-2M, and the rest scattered around Mainland NS.

So 15M in the Maritimes. That's almost inconceivable really. Halifax would certainly have an NHL team, and Moncton and Halifax would have CFL teams. Moncton would probably be seriously considering an NHL team as well at that point.

HFR would be a thing between Moncton and Halifax, and probably between the New Brunswick Tri-cities. HSR might be in development for the Moncton/Halifax corridor, probably a Freddy-Moncton-Halifax corridor. Due to the empty space along the current TCH corridor, a HSR line between Freddy and Moncton would probably be easier to push through than a similar route between Moncton and SJ. (though that would be a nagging ToDo issue as well)

Route 7 would be twinned and probably 3 lanes each way between Freddy and SJ. Route 1 between SJ and Moncton would be 3 or 4 lanes as well, along with the rail routes. The direct Moncton to Freddy route might be upgraded in spots, but maybe not as much with the other routes available. It still goes through the middle of nowhere for most of its routing, but Grand Lake cottage country would make the Freddy side busier.

There would be a full 2-lane divided highway all the way up to Bathurst from Moncton.

Route-8 as I said before, would probably be mostly divided but likely still have some sections not done yet because the Moncton route exists. There would probably be more of a push to fully twin a route from Bathurst to Edmundston in this situation, probably by way of Route 17 and 11.

Route 10 to Minto and Chipman will probably be upgraded to highway standards (but not divided save maybe near Freddy). Those villages would probably grow to full sized towns of a few thousand people each; and shifting more to being more "cottage country" towns to serve tourists and vacationers to Grand lake from Freddy.

There would probably be talk of twinning Route 3 from St Stephen to Freddy, but the St John routing is probably enough for now; but it would likely be on long term plans.

Grand Falls, Woodstock, Sussex, St Stephen, Sackville would probably all be "small city" status, akin to Edmundston or Campbellton now. They're far enough away from the Big Cities to keep their identities for the most part so they should be able to grow to decent sizes before being considered part of another city's zone, like Shediac would have with Moncton.

Now that I look at it, I suspect that Sackville/Amherst will probably be a cross-border twin-city in this scenario.

Truro, Yarmouth, Bridgewater, Wolfville/Kentville, New Glasgow, Antigonish would probably be new cities in Nova Scotia of various sizes. Maybe Port Hawksbury as well, serving as the entrance to Cape Breton.
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Old Posted Dec 12, 2019, 6:46 PM
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Originally Posted by PEI highway guy View Post
6 TO 8 LANE HIGHWAYS IN THE METRO AREAS AND MAYBE 6 LANES BETWEEN THE CITIES. Maybe a 4 lane bridge to PEI.
Oh god, no.
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  #9  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2019, 11:51 PM
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One thing ti cinsider is what would have had to happen historically to make them so big. I'd like to focus on Saint John for this. Imagine that sometime in the 19th Century, two things happen to greatly expand growth along the St John River valley.
  • Rather than joining Canadian Confederation in 1867, New Brunswick and PEI (and maybe Nova Scotia) form their own dominion. Newfoundland may eventually join. While Canada spends the next century acquiring more and more territory to the north and west (the promise of control over Ruperts Land was a huge advantage to Confederation for Upper and Lower Canada, an advantage the Maritimes get none of), Acadia has nowhere left to expand and begins developing its existing territory.
  • With a federal government that cna act freely in its own interest and some already-thriving trade, Acadia experiences the indutrial revolution before central Canada. Factories, urbanization, massive population growth, wage labour etc. all take hold early, giving the dominion a huge head start and ensure that Acadia feels more "european", which will be important for city-building.

The most important infrastructure project, to be undertaken in stages over decades, is what I'm calling the Champlain Seaway. This series of canals, locks and levees will allow ocean-going vessels to travel up the St John and Madawaska Rivers, cutting days off the voyage (in early-20th-Century vessels) from Boston to Montreal. This turns Saint John into an industrial powerhouse, generates tons of revenue and opens both the resources and industries of the rest of the province to new markets. The Seaway's southern terminus is a series of locks connecting the South Bay to the Bay of Fundy, bypassing the hazardous Reversing Falls and keeping the inner harbour for beautiful residential and parkland. Saint John's best analogue would be real-world Philadelphia. The new canal would cause most of the city's industry to relocate to Lancaster, and Carleton to become the CBD. Postwar residential sprawl covers much of the Kingston Peninsula. Historic, working-class neighbourhoods survive in excellent condition to the present day in what is now uptown, the south end and the north end, having traditionally been anchored by the industrial jobs and strong unions along the Courtenay Bay and Red Head. The city's wealthiest residents traditionally live along the Kenebecasis in upper-class neighbourhoods like Millidgeville, until the automobile age when many choose to build spectacular mansions along the Bay of Fundy between Mispec and Saint Martins.

The city becomes famous for its bridges. The inner harbour, no longer needing to be navigable, has five low-level bridges between the reversing falls and the Bay, making sure that both sides of the river are well-connected so that car-dependency is non-existent due to the easy ability to cross the river to go to work, and this culture extends into the far-flung suburbs as well. Even in the car-mad 1960s, 70s and 80s, the majority of Saint John's citizens take public transit to work, echoing the european origins of the city.

Having gone as far as to write all that, I'll just say that Fredericton would be basically Ottawa.
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Old Posted Dec 13, 2019, 3:36 AM
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I'm going to take the opposite tack of Franco401 and try to envision an alternate future greater Saint John of 1 million, with roughly a 70/30 split between the City and surrounding communities, starting from its current state and fast-forwarding 50 years.

A number of factors has led to greatly accelerated growth in cities like Saint John. Significantly increased levels of international immigration bring waves of new Canadians to a wider variety of communities across the country. Meanwhile, the pull of the large North American "superstar cities" has weakened, with remote work enabling more and more skilled labour to avoid these increasingly congested and unaffordable metros and instead pursue meaningful and remunerative careers while achieving a more optimal work-life balance in mid-sized places. The fledgling startup community in the City creates one or two more Radian6-style unicorns, and miraculously, they manage to secure mid-stage capitalization without getting acquired by established Silicon Valley firms - as a result, they are able to create thousands of long-term local jobs. The vertically integrated array of Irving family-owned companies, while still a powerhouse in their own right, becomes less and less central to the overall economy while still managing to grow with the swelling tide of population.

The influx of people and economic activity to greater Saint John blows past even the most optimistic projections in key guiding policy such as PlanSJ. The City finds itself in the opposite situation of a half-century ago (the 1973 Municipal Plan that famously predicted a Saint John of 200k by century's end), with a set of policy tools too modest to deal with the unprecedented rate of growth. Mercifully, the Province's key reforms in the area of municipal governance and taxation have materialized in a timely fashion in the early 2020s, staving off short-term financial ruin and empowering the City to pivot quickly and effectively in its strategic management of growth. The CMA reaches 200k by 2030 and grows by another 200k in each of the next 4 decades to ultimately achieve 1 million at the turn of 2070.

The settlement of over 850k people in 50 years results in the radical transformation of existing neighbourhoods and the creation of entirely new ones. Existing heritage preservation areas on the Central Peninsula withstand the pressure and the bulk of Trinity Royal, along with the Princess Street, King Street East and Orange Street corridors survive as historic streetscapes, while relaxed infill guidelines in these districts have accommodated mid-to-high-rise mixed-use development that has filled in vacant lots. The Peninsula outside these heritage districts is almost unrecognizable, however, having been largely redeveloped to accommodate the increasing preference for the urban lifestyle among newcomers. The non-heritage Peninsula urban fabric begins to resemble Montreal's West End/Shaughnessy Village, where historic rowhouses and walkups coexist with high rise apartment buildings and busy commercial streetscapes.

Development pressures make quick work of waterfront opportunity sites at Fundy Quay, Long Wharf, Smythe Street, Princess Slip, Lower Cove and the Sugar Refinery Site, driving all industrial Port operations out of the east side of the inner harbour to be replaced with high density mixed-use neighbourhoods. (In keeping with the optimistic spin of this story I'm going to make the risky assumption that the impact of sea level rise is either minimal or able to be mitigated). High density development also occurs around Courtenay Forebay, along a re-imagined Main Street/Lansdowne corridor and in both of the major retail districts on the East and West Side.

Peninsula-adjacent neighbourhoods are similarly transformed. The Old North End is rediscovered as a beautiful setting in close proximity to the city centre, and grows and gentrifies rapidly. The Lower West Side, empowered by better cross-harbour connections, also sees major redevelopment. The Port's West Side cargo facilities are ultimately relocated to expanded industrial districts in outer Lorneville and Mispec, opening up the rest of the inner harbour to development. The single family homes and duplexes of the Old East Side are replaced wholesale with higher density forms of housing to take advantage of its location just across the Causeway from the Uptown.

The northern sector of the City, including the lands between Pokiok and Millidgeville, and the area near Ashburn Lake and Drury Cove sees many new neighbourhoods created in the New Urbanist style and existing corridors intensified. The secondary hub of the City, envisioned by PlanSJ and anchored by the Regional Hospital and University, materializes in grand fashion on the plateau and highlands above Sandy Point Road and Kennebecasis Drive, creating a second major skyline.

Despite a predominantly urban character to much of the growth that occurs, the City and surrounding communities grow out as well as up, with significantly more land allocated to residential and commercial development on the fringes. KV, Grand Bay-Westfield, Hampton, Simonds, Musquash and further afield would all see new subdivisions created. Some proper high density, transit-oriented nodes and corridors in the suburbs would also materialize, such as along Hampton Road and Millennium Drive in Rothesay/Quispamsis and Colonel Nase Boulevard in GB-W.

The transportation network would expand and face new challenges. Out of necessity, local walkability and citywide/regional transit are chosen as key strategies to mitigate congestion. Frequent commuter rail extends along the existing corridor from Welsford to Sussex, with a light rail network within the City linking the high density nodes in the north, east and west with the Peninsula. The Saint John Throughway would be expanded to at least 6 lanes along its existing corridor, with an expanded/rebuilt Harbour Bridge offering multimodal connections (including pedestrians/cyclists/light rail) between the Lower West Side and the Central Peninsula. Additionally, a Route 1 Bypass would be constructed from Route 7 near South Bay/Acamac, running across Randolph Island, between the North End/Crescent Valley and Millidgeville, bisecting Rockwood Park and rejoining Route 1 near the existing Rothesay Avenue/Rothesay Road interchange. The Reversing Falls Bridge would be twinned. The controlled access Airport Access Road would be extended from its terminus at Loch Lomond Road past Latimore Lake to connect with expanded industrial and port operations near Red Head/Canaport/Mispec, taking pressure off of Bayside Drive and Loch Lomond Road. Frequent intercity connections by rail/bus to Moncton and Fredericton would be the norm.

Amenities and services available would reflect the improved stature of the metropolitan area. The New Brunswick Museum would have no trouble securing the resources to create an iconic new facility. The Saint John Arts Centre is able to maintain a collection and programming to keep up with the Beaverbrook in Fredericton (which I'm also assuming achieves at least 1M in this scenario). UNBSJ is greatly expanded, and the growing tech sector also gives rise to a dedicated Fundy Institute of Technology located in one of the new central waterfront neighbourhoods. Anchored by the beautifully restored Imperial Theatre and a new, state of the art performing arts complex, an entertainment district develops around King's Square. Harbour Station is replaced with an MTS Centre-sized facility and Canada Games Stadium is upgraded to a full-fledged CFL-ready facility. In addition to the SJRH, there would be another major hospital near the Peninsula, a secondary one in KV, and potentially others as well. The Saint John Airport would likely be approaching or past capacity at its current location and a new site in the region would have to be identified.

Overall, I think this example illustrates the degree to which our expectations must be stretched to contemplate a New Brunswick city at even 1 million (much less millions). Still, a fun topic to consider!
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  #11  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2019, 12:35 PM
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PEI with a million would be very similar in size and population density to Trinidad and Tobago.
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Old Posted Dec 15, 2019, 12:58 AM
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There are some absolutely well thought out examples!!
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Old Posted Dec 15, 2019, 4:08 AM
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Additionally, a Route 1 Bypass would be constructed from Route 7 near South Bay/Acamac, running across Randolph Island, between the North End/Crescent Valley and Millidgeville, bisecting Rockwood Park and rejoining Route 1 near the existing Rothesay Avenue/Rothesay Road interchange.
A route 1 bypass is an idea I've thought about before but given the terrain, I figure it would be difficult without constructing some major bridges over the Saint John and or Kennebacasic river. There's a trend going on in North America to remove major roadways that run through neighborhoods so it would be interesting to see if Saint John would embrace that idea but I'd hope the Harbour bridge would somehow be incorporated in the plans. I travel across it almost every day and every time it feels like I'm crossing it for the first time.
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Old Posted Dec 15, 2019, 4:33 AM
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Also, don’t forget that we will need to revert the roundabout at Route 8 & Smythe Street back to an interchange. Also, in general, we shouldn’t consider a freeway bypass of another freeway unless and until even 8 lanes (2 of which are HOV’s) won’t do.

In reality, I’m curious how Maritime cities can grow to such size though.
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Old Posted Dec 16, 2019, 5:01 AM
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I'm going to play off of some things other people have been saying. Let's suppose that after the Treaty of Paris was signed in 1783, it became the catalyst for a Maritime Union under the name Nova Scotia (since the whole region had been called Nova Scotia at different points before 1783)
The Province of Nova Scotia - Capital Halifax
The Province of New Brunswick - Capital Fredericton
The Province of Prince Edward Island - Charlottetown
The Province of Cape Breton Island - Capital Sydney

So the foundations of a union between the new provinces are put into place and in 1814, after the end of the War of 1812, the 4 provinces unite to form the Federation of Nova Scotia. The province of Nova Scotia becomes the Province of Acadia with the Capital moving to Truro. The new federal capital would be in Halifax.

Due to being their own nation, they have their own currency. Today they would have 5 major banks; BrunswickBank, Farmers Bank, Scotiabank, Union Bank, and Merchants Bank. They were all located in Halifax with the exception of BrunswickBank being located in Saint John and Farmers Bank being located in Charlottetown.

Let's assume that military bases were still built in WWII. Today they would exist in Chatham (Airforce & Military), Greenwood (Airforce), Halifax (Navy & Military), Summerside (Airforce, Navy).

Chatham would have a small amount of Air Force units but be the primary location of what is now CFB Gagetown. Greenwood would basically be as is. Maybe slightly smaller. Halifax would basically be as is, Sheerwater wouldn't exist. Summerside would have a Navy unit next to the Air Force base, as it is right on the water. This would allow for patrolling of the Gulf of St. Lawrence while the Navy base in Halifax would patrol the Atlantic.

In place of NB Power, NS Power & Maritime Electric would have been a new crown corporation called Nova Scotia Electric. Let's assume all of the same generating facilities still get built. Let's also assume that the Macquac Dam is built properly and that they don't need to replace it so early.

Saint John's economy is still very much industrial based, but it is a bit diversified. For starts, by the time the Irving refinery is built, that area had already been developed. There is a bridge from St. John St. to Broad Street and then from Broad St. to Bayside Dr. Most of the Cities industrial ports were built in the Red Head/Anthonys Cove area. The Irving refinery and Pulp Mill and Paper Mil all end up getting built in the Lorneville area near the Coulson Cover Generating Station. The Lancaster side of the harbour becomes more modern. There is a very good subway system serving Lancaster, uptown and the core area of Saint John. A light commuter rail system is also built to help connect the suburbs. There is giant office towers for Irving Oil, JDI, and NBTel on the Lancaster side. The population of Greater Saint John at this point would be around 1.2 Million, with around 300,000 living in Lancaster, which as almost been completely rebuilt. Uptown Saint John has around 200,000 living there, largely in upscale condo buildings built along the waterfront. The Saint John Regional Hospital and UNBSJ remain where they are today. However, UNBSJ becomes its own medical school, The University of Saint John, it has a much bigger campus as well.

The highway through the city has never been built, instead a northern by bypass is built from Dury Cove, north of Rockwood Park before going south, through Milledgeville and crossing the Saint John River in the Milford area. Instead of the route used on the Moncton-Fredericton Route 2 highway, a new route would continue west from Sussex, south of Bellisle Creek, before crossing the Saint John River in Hampstead. From there it would continue north to the village of Gagetown before heading west to Fredericton. To replace the route 7 highway to Fredericton, a highway would be built from Milledgeville north crossing the river to Summerville, before crossing the river again, connecting to the new Route 2 highway. The 119 through Quispamsis would also connect to this highway via another bridge.

Oromocto essentially wouldn't exist due to the military base being in Chatham instead. This would increase the population of the city by around 9000 people. This would be a big boost to the Miramichi area. The proposed northern bypass of the city would be built. Route 8 from Fredericton to Miramichi would be 4 lanes. Route 11 from Miramichi to Moncton would be four lanes as well. The population would be around 50,000.

Greater Moncton now has a population of around 1.3 Million. It is a hub for high tech industry jobs, call centres, insurance, and telecommunications. It has multiple head office towers of software companies, telecommunications companies, and insurance companies. Moncton is a very clean city, with lots of parks, and a well planned out subway system, with lines going through Dieppe, to the airport, up Moutain Road to the Trinity Drive retail hub etc. There would also be two high end shopping malls, the Shops at Champlain and Highfield Square. The NHL also has a team in Moncton that plays in an arena located at the Highfield Square Complex, which is a 3 story shopping complex, with an IMAX theatre, convention centre, and a 17,500 seat arena. The city also has a very big tourism sector. The so-called Magnetic Hill strip has 4 Casinos, 3 amusement parks, 20 hotels, and a golf course, not to mention the actual magnetic hill attraction. There is multiple new river crossings, including Wheeler Blvd, Bridgedale Blvd. and Lower Coverdale. The Petitcodiac Causeway was never built, however, a bridge was built alongside the power transmission lines that also cross the river nearby. Before the big expansion of the George Dumont hospital in the 1970's the hospital was actually relocated to what would be the site of NBCC, in Dieppe. Here a massive hospital campus was constructed in the french city of Dieppe. In the 1950's the CN shops in Moncton were removed due to the lack of usable space in the city itself. The site on the corner of Vaughan Harvey Blvd. & Millennium Blvd. would become the site of the future Moncton Hospital. The biggest hospital campus outside of the Halifax area.

Summerside is another city that would benefit from the increased military presence. The population would be around 70,000. Summerside would also benefit from the increased cost of living in Charlottetown. There would be 1 four-lane highway between the two cities, with a connection to the confederation bridge, which would have been built in the 1970s or 1980s as a four-lane bridge connecting PEI to NB. Charlottetown's population at this point would be around 375,000 with Stratford having around 90,000 and Cornwall having filled in its rural area, now having reached 110,000.

Halifax's population has reached 2 Million people. It has a huge financial district. The NHL has a team play in the 18300 seat Union Bank Forum, built on the site of the former Cogswell interchange. There is an extensive subway system and an above-ground commuter rail system to help make the transit in the city more efficient. There is 4 new crossings, one being an 8 lane tunnel from Dartmouth to downtown, the other being a 6 lane tunnel to replace the MacDonald Bridge. The other 2 are two different crossings of the Northwest Arm. Highway 113 has finally been completed, as well as the Burnside Connector highway. There is also an 8 lane highway from Halifax all the way to the provincial capital in Truro, which now has a population of around 75,000.

This was a lot of fun. What are people's thoughts on some of my ideas?
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  #16  
Old Posted Dec 24, 2019, 2:00 PM
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Since I'm back up in Woodstock for the holidays, I'll touch on Woodstock as well.

Now I'm not saying Woodstock would hit millions; but if Freddy is at millions, then Woodstock will probably be 85k to 100k; which actually puts it near Freddy's current size.

For the most part, the city will still be bounded between the Saint John River and the TCH. There will be spillover over the TCH at the Old Houlton Road and Jacksonville. (and a little at Connell Street but not much more than it currently is due to the valley it dips into).

On the river side, Grafton will be a lot more developed, mainly suburbs and residential, but it will have a small commercial sector around the bridge. The 105 would be a major road, the Main Street for Grafton. The Woodstock Airport would be up above Grafton over the top of the valley. It's mainly for commuter/personal aircraft, but might have service to Montreal and Halifax. But most of Woodstock's air traffic would go through YFC.

The Meduxnekeag would be the real divider between the parts of the town; the south side of the creek would probably be more akin to Nashwaaksis in Fredericton; it will probably have its own Sobeys and maybe a second Superstore down towards the Beardsley Road area, with a lot of residential development in between those areas. A second High School would be built in this area. There would probably also be a second river crossing around the Beardsley Road, to link to Grafton.

The Woodstock First Nation will have grown a lot and serve as the southern edge of the City of Woodstock. It will have its own commercial sector likely around Eagles Nest which will as big and popular as SMEC is now. (And as an aside, if Freddy is at millions, SMEC would be a full scale casino in that situation and not just a gaming hall).

Pinned by the river, the TCH and the First Nation, Woodstock's main growth direction will tend to be northward, into Jacksonville. Jacksonville would be a major suburb and fully integrated into the city, with multiple links between Connell Street and 560. This is one area where the city would sprawl on the west side of the TCH easily due to the flat farmland that exists there.

Richmond Corner would be a small suburban village basically; a lot of suburbs around where the current new elementary school is (Bull Road). The Old Houlton Road would probably have a few apartment buildings near the TCH and a few more full suburbs all the way out to Richmond Corner, with the farmland pushed back. The square between Beardsley Road, Bedell Settlement Road and the Old Houlton Road would be steadily filling in; not full yet but densifying.

Belleville/Red Bridge would probably be a full satellite village as well, not quite big enough to be a town yet but with a few hundred people living out there and some basic services (gas station, restaurants, a small grocer, etc...) sort've like New Maryland is to Freddy.

Carleton Mall in this situation will be a regional mall; probably similar in size to Regent Mall, complete with a food court. The big box district would be on Connell Road, centred on where Walmart is currently, and probably stretching along the TCH towards Jacksonville.

Downtown will have a number of legacy buildings preserved, but also has lots of room for fillin buildings. 5-8 stories would line Main Street and fill in on the east side (towards the river where there's currently a lot of empty/parking space). Connell Street would be a major boulevard, with a historical house district between the downtown area and the commercial area (that would start just past the golf club and go all the way to the TCH). There would be a few small towers on the south side of the Creek as well, going along Route 103 along the river.

The Ayr Motor Centre would be a proper events centre, like Harbour Station or Avenir Centre. Connell Park Road would be split in two; one route going around the Ayr Centre at fully (50km) speeds, and one going to the park at school speeds.

There would probably be 3 crossings to Grafton planned, but one wouldn't quite be in progress yet; the current crossing and Beardsley road would be most likely. A Jacksonville area crossing would be long talked about but not quite ready to go.

The train bridge would be repaired and either be a pedestrian walking bridge (like Billy Thorpe); or it may still be used for actual rail traffic. Actually it will probably remain a train bridge, serving a link for a passenger rail line up the river. Freddy would be a small hub (with a train routes to Moncton, SJ, up to Woodstock and up to Bathurst), so Woodstock would just have the two directions; maybe a 3rd rail line towards Houlton. The Train Station would be where it was; on the river south of the Creek and would have a number of developments around it, including a hotel and some more restaurants.

Woodstock's main industries would still be farming, regional support and services, and transportation, serving as a hub to shipping into the States.
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  #17  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2020, 12:08 AM
Nathan2280 Nathan2280 is offline
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Wouldn't have to travel far to see major league sporting event if we had millions n millions of people.
I would switch my allegiance of Toronto teams to something in maritimes
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  #18  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2020, 12:24 AM
Nathan2280 Nathan2280 is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: New Brunswick
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News tv stations in our city's with local stories and not covering the whole Maritimes on one channel ctv atlantic

Underground highways through each province or subway train in each city
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