Winnipeg James Armstrong Richardson International Airport

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Biff

...yes, no, yes.

- stay on transborder side
- no to repurpose
- would be as far as it can go east. They want to follow the flow and roof of the existing terminal. I believe they will be building 2 bridges and then using the MARS jetway system. So essentially a flexible jetway that can service larger planes with 2 jetways each or swing one arm around and service 2 smaller jets at the same bridge/gate (like a Y).

So 2 of these bridges will serve the 4 new gates? Interesting. I wonder why they're opting for this system designed to handle widebodies given that the transborder side seldom sees anything bigger than an A321? I am hard pressed to even think of an instance where there has ever been a widebody pulling up to transborder.

[Biff]

I guess my example might have led to the assumption that they might planning for widebody jets down there. It was just an example of how the MARS system works. I think it has more to do with building only 2 bridges and having 4 jetways. They are looking for flexibility.

[esquire]

^ OK, thanks for clarifying. That approach makes sense... instead of two long jetbridges to serve mainly regional jets and 737s in the transborder area, just have one long one with two branches at either end.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by esquire

Anytime you have more than 2 regional jets or 1 737/320 type narrowbody boarding, it gets really choked in there. I was disappointed by how tiny it was the first time I set foot in there... hopefully this expansion will improve the situation.?

Even worse is when you have a transborder flight using one of the swing gates but within the hour before that flight it is also servicing a domestic flight. That means the whole gate area for a flight is not available forcing people into the already limited space. Worse I have seen in happen with some of the 737 transborder routes.

The new Y bridge seems great on paper but I wonder how they are going to work things at the Y so that people are getting on the correct plane. Perhaps lockable doors at the fork in the bridge so that only the correct door is open at the time?

Also the wide body gates could be a preparation more for offloading to Canadian customs rather than a US bound wide body service. It seems the most likely wide body service at YWG would not be going to the USA even if you include Hawaii.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by CoryB

The new Y bridge seems great on paper but I wonder how they are going to work things at the Y so that people are getting on the correct plane. Perhaps lockable doors at the fork in the bridge so that only the correct door is open at the time?

I suspect they'll avoid boarding two flights using the same bridge too closely together... otherwise the potential for Home Alone 2-type screwups is real. Barriers must also be part of the plan.

Also the wide body gates could be a preparation more for offloading to Canadian customs rather than a US bound wide body service. It seems the most likely wide body service at YWG would not be going to the USA even if you include Hawaii.

I was wondering about that. I've never flown international into the new terminal, just the old one... doesn't the middle part of the terminal (domestic/international, including the one gate that can handle really big widebodies like 747/777s) have a separate corridor that can be used to channel people into Canada Customs as is the case in the transborder area? Or do all international flights just pull up to the transborder area and channel people into Customs from there?

[Biff]

For those that are interested.

http://www.design-with-confidence.co...eroturnpro.pdf

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by esquire

doesn't the middle part of the terminal (domestic/international, including the one gate that can handle really big widebodies like 747/777s) have a separate corridor that can be used to channel people into Canada Customs

The wide body gate is 6. Everything lower has a double door in the airport coming off a plane. For domestic flights you proceed into the departures area. For non-domestic flight the second door is closed and you are contained to the hallway which takes you to customs. The challenge is all gates lower than the one you land at cannot board while passengers are clearing into customs.

Fairly sure the new airport needed to be designed to allow wide body international arrivals even though they are not currently scheduled. YWG does occasionally get emergency diversions and if they needed to unload a wide body and replane people the next day they need a way to handle that.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by CoryB

The wide body gate is 6. Everything lower has a double door in the airport coming off a plane. For domestic flights you proceed into the departures area. For non-domestic flight the second door is closed and you are contained to the hallway which takes you to customs. The challenge is all gates lower than the one you land at cannot board while passengers are clearing into customs.

Fairly sure the new airport needed to be designed to allow wide body international arrivals even though they are not currently scheduled. YWG does occasionally get emergency diversions and if they needed to unload a wide body and replane people the next day they need a way to handle that.

Thanks for shedding light on that. On the second paragraph, the terminal definitely had to be prepared to handle widebody international arrivals as there has been that type of service over the years. Air Transat's widebody service to sun destinations come to mind, along with the occasional overseas service like WestJet to Gatwick and Iceland Express to Reykjavik.

[CoryB]

^^ YWG is also an emergency diversion point for wide body routes that would never stop here otherwise.

Not sure there have been any instances other than 9/11 that they needed to deplane and then later depart an entire wide body passenger load. That said a significant failure on a wide body plane could see it at YWG and not being able to continue.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by CoryB

^^ YWG is also an emergency diversion point for wide body routes that would never stop here otherwise.

Not sure there have been any instances other than 9/11 that they needed to deplane and then later depart an entire wide body passenger load. That said a significant failure on a wide body plane could see it at YWG and not being able to continue.

There's was an Air China flight a few years back that had to wait for Westjet's 767 to move.

[YWG-RO]

Great news to hear of the expansion. Two (4) gates is enough. Normally 2-4 are trans border with 5 & 6 as swing gates. Big issue is common space and this will help a lot.

I don’t find the present set up that bad. Yes, it can get busy, but nothing compared to J & K in the old terminal with the snack bar and tiny restrooms. That space was 1/4 of the present space.

[Dominion301]

I’m reposting this from the Canadian Aviation thread:

Hi everyone. The Time Air Society of Lethbridge are trying to save one of the F-28s at YXE that have been parked there for over 15 years.

They are about $3,250 shy of their goal, but only have until the end of January to succeed (otherwise it will join all the other YXE F-28s and head off to the scrapper). If you can donate even as little as $20, it would go a long way to preserving a piece of Canadian (and Dutch) aviation history.

Here’s the link to their GoFundMe page: https://www.gofundme.com/f/saving-cf...281000-sn11106

Even if you can’t afford to donate, spread the word.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Hi everyone. The Time Air Society of Lethbridge are trying to save one of the F-28s at YXE that have been parked there for over 15 years.

You may want to try to get the Winnipeg Aviation Museum folks at least aware of this. Not sure they have funds or their goals would align with the plans but I know their old exhibition space had a similar plane in it. And while commercial passenger jets isn't their primary focus Canadian aviation history is a secondary focus.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by CoryB

You may want to try to get the Winnipeg Aviation Museum folks at least aware of this. Not sure they have funds or their goals would align with the plans but I know their old exhibition space had a similar plane in it. And while commercial passenger jets isn't their primary focus Canadian aviation history is a secondary focus.

That's a good idea. Maybe the Canada Air & Space Museum or the museum in Hamilton might be able to help.

[plrh]

Originally Posted by esquire

So 2 of these bridges will serve the 4 new gates? Interesting. I wonder why they're opting for this system designed to handle widebodies given that the transborder side seldom sees anything bigger than an A321? I am hard pressed to even think of an instance where there has ever been a widebody pulling up to transborder.

A 787-8 spent the night last night from Gatwick to Cabo. Unruly passenger. I don't know why they couldn't just drop them and fly off.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...gers-1.5446902

[CoryB]

^^Sounds like one passenger caused the initial diversion then as the plane was getting ready to continue on a second and unrelated passenger caused a new disturbance and also needed to be removed.

Just a guess but the added ground time for the second disturbance plus refueling and deicing times likely pushed the crew to the be out of hours needed to complete the flight. Even worse if they had started the deicing process and needed to return to the terminal to offload the second passenger.

[bomberjet]

I've seen some posts about Flair offering unlimited flight packages within Canada. Such as something like 499 for 3 months with restrictions on dates. or 699 without restrictions on dates. Can't remember the exact numbers. I'm not sure what fees taxes or whatever might be applied.

And although I know flair could fold up at any moment, this is the type of thing that could open up the country to air travel to a much greater degree. Right now 500 or 700 will get you a couple flights, maybe one flight. If the large carriers start offering this, which I doubt they will anytime soon, it could really open up travel opportunities, or even work commuting. And this may be something that draws people more to these discount airlines.

Any opinions on that type of set-up. Such as, what if they cancel your flight and you need o sue AC or WJ to get there.

[esquire]

As I understand it, you still have to pay taxes and fees on each flight even though the base fare is covered.

This kind of gimmick makes me a little suspicious, it's like in the old days, when gyms would start blowing out lifetime memberships just before they shut the place down.

[bomberjet]

Ya. That's kind of what I meant by Flair could just shut'r down at any time.

But the overall theory seems decent to me. I'd be interested in looking at that for 3 months over the summer and make it out to various locations rather easily. you'd have to fly enough to make it worthwhile.

It could also evolve into other situations if the idea takes off and makes airlines more efficient. Flights are fuller, dollars are coming in. Type of thing.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I've seen some posts about Flair offering unlimited flight packages within Canada. Such as something like 499 for 3 months with restrictions on dates. or 699 without restrictions on dates. Can't remember the exact numbers. I'm not sure what fees taxes or whatever might be applied.

And although I know flair could fold up at any moment, this is the type of thing that could open up the country to air travel to a much greater degree. Right now 500 or 700 will get you a couple flights, maybe one flight. If the large carriers start offering this, which I doubt they will anytime soon, it could really open up travel opportunities, or even work commuting. And this may be something that draws people more to these discount airlines.

Any opinions on that type of set-up. Such as, what if they cancel your flight and you need o sue AC or WJ to get there.

The $699 pass has no date restrictions and includes a checked bag. The $499 pass excludes Fridays and Sundays and does not include a checked bag; I believe Flair charges about $30 plus tax for a checked bag per flight leg.

It's a good deal if you get a lot of use out of it, and there are 13 weeks to do so. Problem is they only serve Abbotsford, Calgary and Toronto non-stop from Winnipeg. If Swoop offered this same deal, with their full route network, it would be amazing.