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  #2561  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2018, 1:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy6 View Post

I wonder if Charlotte, Nena and Margaretta were changed all at once and why it went no further.
There's this this map of the city from 1881, which shows the alphabetized street name pattern ending at "P" - Penelope (now Pearl St.), then giving up and going to Emily St. I guess the McDermots and Bannatynes (whose estates these streets were created on) didn't have any female family members with names starting with "Q" and that was that.

(This reminds of that persistent urban legend that Winnipeg's old feminine street names were named after various mayor's and aldermen's favourite prostitutes. Which is a little insulting to the women of the Logan, Ross, Bannatyne, and McDermot families for whom these streets were actually named after.)
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  #2562  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2018, 10:01 PM
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South of Notre Dame was Hudson's Bay Reserve land and the streets (except the two major trails, Main and Portage) were named by the HBC. North of Notre Dame the streets were named prior to Winnipeg's incorporation or after 1873 by the city. No street crossed Notre Dame keeping the same name. The streets were all planned and named by the early 1880s boom, even if there were few to no buildings on some of them. The area was not developed as far as Nena (Sherbrook) until the late 1890s. The General Hospital used to sit out all by itself on the prairie. After the boom Winnipeg's population dropped and then stagnated for awhile, it took until 1890-91 for the population to recover to the 25,000 figure it had achieved in 1883-84, so that's almost certainly the reason why the streets only go as far as "P".

North of Notre Dame the boundaries of the river lots assume a northwesterly orientation. Notre Dame was the base street for Winnipeg's system of numbered streets and avenues in the early 1890s. It was called Central Avenue. So for example, Albert Street was 1st Street N. and Garry was 2nd Street S. Bannatyne was 2nd Avenue N. while Ellice was 4th Avenue S.

The streets were not all renamed at once, it happened haphazardly and for different reasons.

Sherbrook south of Notre Dame was originally named Mulligan,then later renamed Sherbrook when the streetcar line was installed in 1897. A remarkably tacky move by city council since Mulligan was the original landowner, resided on the property for over 40 years and even ran the ferry where the Maryland Bridge now stands. He died in 1891. I wonder how much the anti-Irish sentiments of the time had to do with that. North of Notre Dame it was Nena and then the current portion north of Alexander to Henry it was called Quelch. That was an offset intersection and the current street bends to join what was two separate streets, much like Isabel bends to join what was once Isabel and Prairie Streets. The street now called Quelch further west was named later. Nena assumed Quelch in the 1890s then Nena itself was changed to Sherbrook around 1910 most likely to reduce confusion about streetcar routing as there was at least one route using both Sherbrook and Nena.

Furby always ended at Notre Dame and Margaretta ran through to William. Margaretta was changed to Furby in the 1930s likely to avoid confusion (esp. for taxi services) with Margaret Ave. in West Kildonan which had quite a number of residents by then, or perhaps the residents were just tired of writing out such a long street name.

Charlotte was renamed Hargrave in the 50s in preparation of the adoption of the one way street system downtown and as Charlotte was also going to be made one way northbound. Carlton and Ellen did not connect at all until at least the late 50s, the extension was added to facilitate traffic flow in the area and to take some pressure off of the Princess/Donald bottleneck.
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  #2563  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2018, 10:41 PM
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Winnipeg has renamed so many streets over the years that it can make research difficult.

Amongst many, Osborne Street south of Stadbrook (part of which was once called Spadina) was called Pembina St. and Pembina Hwy. was Pembina Rd. Henderson up to Harbison was Kelvin and Sturgeon was Victoria. Also many streets that didn't align were connected and given one name, ie. Ellice and Nellie, Corydon and Jackson, Grosvenor and Haskins. The greatest number of renamings occurred in the early 60s to avoid all of duplication between Winnipeg and the suburban municipalities or between different suburbs, ie. Oxford St. (one is now Day St.) Melrose Ave. (one is now Kimberly Ave.), Whittier (one is now Bedson St.) or all of the various Ferry Roads (incl. Rouge Rd. and Whellams Lane). Some residents fought hard to keep their street names but were unsuccessful, like Montrose Ave., which was renamed Larsen, while others were vociferous enough and kept their name like Notre Dame in St. Boniface or the two Yale Avenues.
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  #2564  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2018, 12:28 PM
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College Street in St. James was renamed Collegate at about the same time.
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  #2565  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2018, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Winnipeg has renamed so many streets over the years that it can make research difficult.

Amongst many, Osborne Street south of Stadbrook (part of which was once called Spadina) was called Pembina St. and Pembina Hwy. was Pembina Rd. Henderson up to Harbison was Kelvin and Sturgeon was Victoria. Also many streets that didn't align were connected and given one name, ie. Ellice and Nellie, Corydon and Jackson, Grosvenor and Haskins. The greatest number of renamings occurred in the early 60s to avoid all of duplication between Winnipeg and the suburban municipalities or between different suburbs, ie. Oxford St. (one is now Day St.) Melrose Ave. (one is now Kimberly Ave.), Whittier (one is now Bedson St.) or all of the various Ferry Roads (incl. Rouge Rd. and Whellams Lane). Some residents fought hard to keep their street names but were unsuccessful, like Montrose Ave., which was renamed Larsen, while others were vociferous enough and kept their name like Notre Dame in St. Boniface or the two Yale Avenues.
I lived on Evanson St. in Wolseley for a while. It was originally called Horne St, but mail kept getting mixed up between Horne and Home streets. Apparently the last straw came when liquor was mistakenly delivered to the home of a prominent member of the temperance movement. Evanson was a city comptroller.
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  #2566  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2018, 2:02 PM
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Thanks for all of this information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Sherbrook south of Notre Dame was originally named Mulligan,then later renamed Sherbrook when the streetcar line was installed in 1897. A remarkably tacky move by city council since Mulligan was the original landowner, resided on the property for over 40 years and even ran the ferry where the Maryland Bridge now stands. He died in 1891. I wonder how much the anti-Irish sentiments of the time had to do with that.
I don't know if this would have been anti-Irish sentiment as much as it would have been part of an attempt at British Canadian-izing the city's street names, and make Winnipeg less particular and more world- (or Empire-) class. Similar to how Fonseca Street lost its name and became a part of Higgins Avenue. William Fonseca was quite well known as an important city father at the time, and the oldest resident of Point Douglas, but his name was odd-sounding and lost out to Higgins... I don't think that was anti-Portuguese as much as it was pro-homogeneity.
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  #2567  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2018, 2:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wardlow View Post
Thanks for all of this information.



I don't know if this would have been anti-Irish sentiment as much as it would have been part of an attempt at British Canadian-izing the city's street names, and make Winnipeg less particular and more world- (or Empire-) class. Similar to how Fonseca Street lost its name and became a part of Higgins Avenue. William Fonseca was quite well known as an important city father at the time, and the oldest resident of Point Douglas, but his name was odd-sounding and lost out to Higgins... I don't think that was anti-Portuguese as much as it was pro-homogeneity.
William Fonseca was from the West Indies of Creole descent, not Portuguese.

http://www.mhs.mb.ca/docs/people/fonseca_wg.shtml
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  #2568  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2018, 3:38 PM
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William Fonseca was from the West Indies of Creole descent, not Portuguese.

http://www.mhs.mb.ca/docs/people/fonseca_wg.shtml
Yes, but the name surname Fonseca is Portuguese in origin.

Anyway, it's a little interesting and totally flies in the face of the oversimplified two-dimensional understanding of Winnipeg's history that a Creole man named Don Derigo Nojada Gomez da Silva Fonseca was one of the city's earliest leading citizens.
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  #2569  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2018, 6:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wardlow View Post
Thanks for all of this information.



I don't know if this would have been anti-Irish sentiment as much as it would have been part of an attempt at British Canadian-izing the city's street names, and make Winnipeg less particular and more world- (or Empire-) class. Similar to how Fonseca Street lost its name and became a part of Higgins Avenue. William Fonseca was quite well known as an important city father at the time, and the oldest resident of Point Douglas, but his name was odd-sounding and lost out to Higgins... I don't think that was anti-Portuguese as much as it was pro-homogeneity.
Armstrong's Point had seen a few homes built in the 1880s and early 90s but it wasn't until Portage streetcars were extended to Sherbrook and Cornish that construction in the toney neighbourhood really took off (and streets like Furby and Langside south of Portage were fully developed). Somehow, Mulligan Street just didn't sound right, just too Irish in the years when there was a lot of troubles and religious strife in Ireland over Home Rule. Sherbrooke, named after Montreal's famous commercial street, was much more suitable. Montreal was still by far the dominant city in Canada at the time. Sherbrooke kept the final "e" until the late 1930s at least on streetcar route placards and signs and on the earliest motor buses.

Some streets changed their names due to negative associations, like John Street, which was renamed Daly Street as the word "John" started to assume another definition as well, in an era when moralizers were in the ascendancy. Apparently, the word originates as customers would almost always give their name as John, esp. on the early phones, as I suppose one never knew who was listening.

Another funny one was Athole Avenue, today's Luxton. While the correct pronunciation is "Ath-ull" it increasingly came to be mispronounced as it is spelled, "Ath-ole". No one wanted to live on "Ath-ole" Avenue.
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  #2570  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2018, 8:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

Another funny one was Athole Avenue, today's Luxton. While the correct pronunciation is "Ath-ull" it increasingly came to be mispronounced as it is spelled, "Ath-ole". No one wanted to live on "Ath-ole" Avenue.
If I'm not mistaken the apartment block on Hargrave at Broadway is also called Athole.
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  #2571  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2018, 8:26 PM
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Development of density in the west Osborne / Wellington Crescent area.

1948


1959


1968


1993
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  #2572  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2018, 8:37 PM
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I wonder if there are any restrictions protecting that last standing SFH neighbourhood of Roslyn Cres from big developers wanting to build apartment/condo towers? I love that area of houses, but it just seems like it is holding on for dear life as it is like a no brainer to fill that area in with towers.
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  #2573  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2018, 8:42 PM
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If I'm not mistaken the apartment block on Hargrave at Broadway is also called Athole.
Atholl, which is a far more common spelling of the name.
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  #2574  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2018, 10:30 PM
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I wonder if there are any restrictions protecting that last standing SFH neighbourhood of Roslyn Cres from big developers wanting to build apartment/condo towers? I love that area of houses, but it just seems like it is holding on for dear life as it is like a no brainer to fill that area in with towers.
Seems like a no-brainer to create more density here, if not more towers, but I believe there are all kinds of caveats on a number of those properties that prevent much more than single-family from being built. I may be wrong on that. Plus many of the residents here are pretty savvy and the same people who held up the condo project going up on the south side of Roslyn.
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  #2575  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2018, 10:33 PM
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Looks like the Nanton estate and other large lots on the north side of Roslyn Road were already carved up into Roslyn Crescent by 1948. Would be interesting to see aerial photos or property maps showing the area before this happened.
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  #2576  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2018, 1:59 AM
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(This reminds of that persistent urban legend that Winnipeg's old feminine street names were named after various mayor's and aldermen's favourite prostitutes. Which is a little insulting to the women of the Logan, Ross, Bannatyne, and McDermot families for whom these streets were actually named after.)
I had heard that over 20 years ago, and always assumed the story of the street names in that area were in fact named after the mistresses/escorts of City Councilors and officials, and never questioned it.
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  #2577  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2018, 3:30 AM
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MLA James Allum speaks on the "deplorable condition" of the city archives. The date on the Youtube video is Oct. 23, 2018. I don't know if this is the original date or not.

I agree, there needs to be an ASAP plan to fix whatever space is needed for our beloved archives and put them back for public access.

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  #2578  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2018, 2:09 PM
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Looks like the Nanton estate and other large lots on the north side of Roslyn Road were already carved up into Roslyn Crescent by 1948. Would be interesting to see aerial photos or property maps showing the area before this happened.
The mansion was torn down and the lot subdivided in 1935.
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  #2579  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2018, 4:01 PM
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The mansion was torn down and the lot subdivided in 1935.
Ah, thank you.

The estate had quite the staff in 1911, according to the Census. Like, almost Downton Abbey levels.

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  #2580  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2018, 6:01 PM
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Either Augustus had a previous wife or he liked to marry young as it appears his 36 year old wife has a 23 year old daughter. Common at the time?

Also, what does a Lodger do and why would a 9 year old be doing it (unless those numbers mean something else).
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