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  #14441  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2019, 5:06 PM
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First of all, I'm a sucker for shiny renderings and grand architecture, so I'm sold on both of these designs and want them built.

I am leaning toward the NAVWAR project. I think it could be better to spur development in the Midway district. There's more land to work with there, and with the approval of the recent community plan update, it is primed to blow up. Also, I kind of like the idea of a large grand transit hub making its way back to where the City started back in the 1700s.
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  #14442  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2019, 6:40 PM
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Both look great and seem to have similar designs on the surface.

Is anyone else troubled though by the airport rail link in the 2nd proposal? It appears that it just shleps passengers off at the edge of the station rather than going deep into the transportation center and providing easy access to other modes of transit.
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  #14443  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2019, 1:16 AM
Will O' Wisp Will O' Wisp is offline
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@Spoon and Stream: You're both touching on the benefits of NAVWAR... and the downsides.

The extra land at NAVWAR lets you spread the layout around for a much nicer user experience. For instance look at what it would be like arriving as a trolley passenger. At NAVWAR you'll arrive in a wide, open area directly underneath the main structure. Above, a large portal allows natural light from within the great hall to stream down into the station.




You ascend the escalators up through that portal to the grand hall, with the APM station directly above you (or alternately, with another set of escalators going back down to the APM tunnel laying in front of you).



At ITC, you arrive in a much narrower station. Although you are at ground level, with the mass of structure curved above you it feels like an underground subway station. You take an escalator up onto the first floor through a narrow portal. Around you masses of cars, buses, and taxis are disgorging their passengers.

[No rendering because it looks really boring]

The new entrants join you on a second set of escalators to rise up into the great hall which, admittedly, is just as grand as the one at NAVWAR would be. The APM station lies a fair distance away near the entrance to the hall, on the other side of a roadway (alternatively, raised on a platform just above the entrance).



For COASTER riders the dichotomy is even larger. The NAVWAR experience is virtually the same as a trolley rider, but with the ITC you arrive at Old Town Station. You know, the current station, which looks more or less the same it does today. Nearby is an APM platform. You step on and the doors close. You travel up and over the freeway before stopping in front of the great hall. It looms large in the window, so you admire it a bit before the doors close again and you continue on your way. (@spoon: connecting to the Old Town station is why the APM station is where it is instead of just to the right of the great hall. It's too much curve to send the tracks behind the ITC and back around to the ROW of PCH).

Both of these options accomplish the same mission. The time it takes the average rider to get from their chosen mode of transport to the airport is roughly the same*. The statistics are going to tell you the ridership will be roughly the same because of that. You can't quantify how many more people will use public transit if a station "feels" better, if indeed any at all do. So, is the better experience worth spending $2-3 billion extra? Or to put it another way, is it worth building the absolute best possible Grand Central instead of, say, a trolley line from downtown to SDSU via North park? I won't pretend to know the answer to that.

And then there's the outside development aspect. NAWAR blows ITC out of the water on this, with near double the potential impact area it could potentially be a second downtown. But greater development brings its own issues. That little park you see on the plans for NAVWAR, on the over side of the 5? That's from the 11 houses that have to be eminent domained because the great hall is going to block all their sunlight. One of them has already been designated a historic resource, and this is literally down the street from the HQ of Save Our Heritage Organization (SOHO), San Diego's primary historic preservation group. And with the community plan update, the Midway-Pacific Community Planning Group who made it is already angry things have progressed this far without them being consulted. They're saying the plan they so carefully crafted can't handle the central nexus of San Diego transit being plopped down right in the middle of it. Can SANDAG navigate an ardent NIMBY opposition while sticking to the Navy's tight schedule timelines? Well... there's a reason they haven't stopped studying alternatives to NAVWAR yet.

*The extra time taken by walking through the ITC's great hall is offset by it being physically closer to the airport, reducing the travel time on the APM. Similarly, the extra time taken by COASTER passengers on the APM is outweighed by the far larger number of trolley/car/taxi/bus passengers saving 2-3 minutes each because the ITC is closer to the terminals.

Last edited by Will O' Wisp; Oct 9, 2019 at 6:30 PM.
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  #14444  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2019, 5:26 AM
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Uh Oh...

Macy's sues to stop the Horton Plaza conversion

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...-office-campus
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  #14445  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2019, 1:52 PM
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Uh Oh...

Macy's sues to stop the Horton Plaza conversion

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...-office-campus
I don’t really blame Macy’s for trying to get their payday. Looks like amateur hour for Stockdale. Seems nothing can get done in this city without lawsuits, or at least with quasi government sponsored projects like NBC, 7th&Market, and HP.
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  #14446  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2019, 6:23 PM
CrookedRecords CrookedRecords is offline
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Originally Posted by mello View Post
First of all Pinnacle needs to focus on actually building its current project that is "under construction". Has anyone else noticed that its site at 11th/E has been stalled for the last 2 or 3 months. It is completely unchanged, i drive uber so i see ot 2 or 3 times a week and it hasn't budged.

Spoon: the location im referring to is their other twin tower project. Then they have multiple other approvals around town but of course no ground breakings.

Mello,

You are very observant my friend. That situation is actually much worse than it seems. There has been some slight forward progress and if things aren't actually up and running yet then they may be very soon but this current shutdown was just a symptom of some of the companies larger issues which seem to pop up on every single project they have been involved in recently. Every time I hear that they are attempting another one I am surprised.
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  #14447  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2019, 9:31 PM
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Originally Posted by spoonman View Post
I don’t really blame Macy’s for trying to get their payday. Looks like amateur hour for Stockdale. Seems nothing can get done in this city without lawsuits, or at least with quasi government sponsored projects like NBC, 7th&Market, and HP.
Hopefully the project gets scraped. Horton Plaza is an architectural treasure from the Post-Modernism era and the new Tech campus looks like any other new shopping mall or tech campus proposal.
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  #14448  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2019, 3:19 AM
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1970s footage of driving over the Coronado bridge

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB5S...ature=youtu.be
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  #14449  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2019, 10:47 PM
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It's not transoceanic, and only seasonal for now, but still nice:

San Diego gets its first nonstop flight to Montreal
San Diego gets its first nonstop flight to Montreal
Union-Tribune
October 15, 2019



Quote:
Starting next summer, San Diego International Airport will get its first nonstop flight to Montreal, Canadian airline Air Transat announced Tuesday.

Starting off as a seasonal service, the flights will be available three days a week — Mondays, Wednesdays and Sundays — between June 15 and Oct. 28.

....

“The volume of traffic between Quebec and the United States has been growing strongly, at a rate of 6 percent on an annual weighted average since 2013,” said airline spokeswoman Debbie Cabana. “The volume in California is growing just as strongly, with an average of 7 percent per year. We believe that traffic between Quebec and San Diego will be stimulated with the addition of a direct service.”

In San Diego, Montreal is considered the top unserved Canadian market, with nearly 70 passenger per day traveling there, including those passengers who currently drive to Los Angeles International Airport to take a nonstop flight, said airport spokeswoman Rebecca Gilbert. Historically, some 32 percent of those traveling between the two cities have been passengers originating in San Diego, and 67 percent were departing out of Montreal.

Cabana said it is too soon to say whether the San Diego-Montreal service could eventually become more frequent or convert to year-round service.
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  #14450  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2019, 2:05 AM
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The facade of the first Manchester Gateway building is almost to the top floor, rised pretty fast!

I'll see if I can get a good picture soon
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  #14451  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2019, 4:50 AM
Will O' Wisp Will O' Wisp is offline
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Originally Posted by HurricaneHugo View Post
The facade of the first Manchester Gateway building is almost to the top floor, rised pretty fast!

I'll see if I can get a good picture soon
Funny you should mention that, I just happened to be in downtown today







From the other side of the street you could tell something was going on beyond the footprint of the navy office. Unfortunately Harbor Dr was too busy to cross in the daytime, but after nightfall I returned.



That's the clearest picture my crappy iphone camera was able to take, but by sight you could see work starting on the foundations of the other buildings. Much of the site's back half has been excavated, from the corner of Pacific Hwy and Harbor almost to E St, with retaining walls slowly edging its way behind the old navy building. At the center the underground parking structure lies exposed, the new navy office sticking oddly out the top. It looks for the most part complete, just waiting for the other buildings to be placed atop it. I spotted what looked to be foundation piles being laid alongside, presumably because the parking structure can take the entire weight by itself. The outer sidewalks are already paved, with even a few lampposts being put in, and the streetside utilities look mostly in place.

Last edited by Will O' Wisp; Oct 22, 2019 at 8:11 AM.
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  #14452  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2019, 2:08 AM
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Bridge Lighting Project Moves Forward, Port of San Diego Gets Permit to Temporarily Illuminate a Portion of the Bridge

https://www.portofsandiego.org/press...yUz5PW1xVxHtMA
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  #14453  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2019, 7:36 PM
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Construction Notes

Just spoke with a huge homeless advocate guy and he said the Fathers Joe's 16 floor light bluish glass building that was approved and supposed to start back in 2017 is finally breaking ground in a month or two. I forgot exact intersection something like 16th and commercial. It had been forgotten about on the forum but it is finally coming to fruition.

1000 Apartments to be built in Grantville on old funky warehouse and towyard area near the SD River. Grading beginning in April/May of next year and first apartments expected to be move in ready by mid 2023 seems kind of slow for opening but oh well. Lots of units, 3 to 6 floor structures. Project is on 49 acres.

Pinnacles 11th and E project still stalled out, anyone have any idea what the hell is going on This sucker ain't rising
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  #14454  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2019, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by mello View Post

1000 Apartments to be built in Grantville on old funky warehouse and towyard area near the SD River. Grading beginning in April/May of next year and first apartments expected to be move in ready by mid 2023 seems kind of slow for opening but oh well. Lots of units, 3 to 6 floor structures. Project is on 49 acres.
Glad to see more being done in Grantville. I know people were hoping it would mimic a more urban vibe, so I hope this works. Unfortunately, the street grid there is more conducive to large complexes than smaller infill, so it'll probably just look like an extension of Mission Valley.
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  #14455  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 6:28 AM
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Possible Gaslamp Promenade to replace 5th avenue.

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loc...564135301.html

I'm all up for it, make it safer for the pedestrians
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  #14456  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2019, 3:17 AM
JerellO JerellO is offline
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Originally Posted by HurricaneHugo View Post
Possible Gaslamp Promenade to replace 5th avenue.

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loc...564135301.html

I'm all up for it, make it safer for the pedestrians
Omgggg yessssss!!! I love that California cities are closing streets to cars and catering to pedestrians San Francisco is planning on closing a huge chunk of Market street also! If they can close one of their main thoroughfares to cars.. idk why we can’t do it with 5th Avenue. There are talks as well to close a section of Hollywood Boulevard in Los Angeles to cars, permanently, since they already do it during CicLAvia and the Grammy Awards
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  #14457  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2019, 8:38 PM
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Totally disagree. This would completely kill the vibe of the area and slowly turn 5th avenue into a mall full of kiosks. Look what happened to Fremont Street in Vegas. There are now some efforts to turn it back into a street. Times Square was also wrecked this way. If anyone thinks that a 5th Avenue Mall/Promenade won't be the new home for the homeless, think again.
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  #14458  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2019, 9:51 PM
Boatguy619 Boatguy619 is offline
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Totally disagree. This would completely kill the vibe of the area and slowly turn 5th avenue into a mall full of kiosks. Look what happened to Fremont Street in Vegas. There are now some efforts to turn it back into a street. Times Square was also wrecked this way. If anyone thinks that a 5th Avenue Mall/Promenade won't be the new home for the homeless, think again.
Have you ever visited Santa Monica 3rd street Promenade? It revitalized that area. I dont see bars and restaurants being replaced with shops. If anything they could expand their outdoor areas to the street similar to Santa Monica. And a few kiosks don't seem like an issue. Homeless/ panhandlers on the promonade can be removed.
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  #14459  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2019, 5:55 AM
Will O' Wisp Will O' Wisp is offline
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Originally Posted by HurricaneHugo View Post
Possible Gaslamp Promenade to replace 5th avenue.

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loc...564135301.html

I'm all up for it, make it safer for the pedestrians
Hot damn this would be amazing. During the past two Comi-cons they'd made 5th pedestrian only and it was an incredible experience.

The only issue might be blocking off E/W transit across so much of downtown. I'd go with maintaining through traffic on J St, Market St, F St, and Broadway. I'd close K St, Island Ave, G St, and E St between 4th and 6th. At the intersection of each of those streets and 5th, you could have these beautiful gathering spaces where one could wander in any direction to shop or dine or just explore. And with just one pedestrian bridge over Harbor Dr, we could connect it up with the Embarcadero for a continuous destination experience stretching from the county admin building park, down to the Midway and the MPG, past the soon to be redone Seaport Village and through the renovated convention center in a massive 2.3 mile promenade connecting nearly all of downtown's tourist destinations.
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  #14460  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2019, 4:10 AM
mt_climber13 mt_climber13 is offline
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What is the huge building being built next to Grocery Outlet downtown?
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