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  #35781  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2016, 8:27 AM
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emathias emathias is offline
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This is interesting:
http://chicago.curbed.com/2016/12/16...ments-approved
Quote:
This year’s final meeting of the Chicago Plan Commission green-lit a number of developments yesterday. One proposal would replace Old Town’s Noble Horse Theatre and a stable facility used by downtown Chicago’s horse carriage operators with 252 new apartments. Developed by LG and designed by NORR, the seven-story transit-oriented project at 1415 N. Sedgwick Street contains just 89 parking spaces thanks to a CTA station less than two blocks to the north.
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  #35782  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2016, 3:06 PM
Ryanrule Ryanrule is offline
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They should zone goose island into a high rise cluster.
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  #35783  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2016, 3:31 PM
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^Because it has such superb transit access?
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  #35784  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2016, 11:31 PM
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ardecila ardecila is offline
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^ A "cluster", I think, is an exaggeration. But highrises =/= density. You can have a handful of highrises along the North Branch where developers can take advantage of views over the city, coupled with the open space that neighborhood advocates seem to want. The overall density would not be higher than that of the adjacent lowrise neighborhoods. Sort of a smarter version of "towers in a park", with parks along the riverbank, then a few highrises, then some midrise buildings stepping down towards and connecting the urban fabric to the neighborhood edge on Clybourn.

Plus, putting highrises here alleviates much of the concern about shadows or parking, since the neighbors are (right now) all industrial.

As far as transit access goes, there is good bus service on all the streets intersecting the river corridor (Damen, Fullerton, Ashland, Armitage/Cortland, North, Division, Halsted, Chicago). A Clybourn bus would be a welcome addition as well to link new residents with shopping and entertainment options, as well as a Red Line transfer. Also, the Clybourn Metra station would qualify at least part of the Finkl site for TOD.
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  #35785  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2016, 8:05 PM
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bcp bcp is offline
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And come on..we all know that seeing w small island sprout high rises would be cool as hell
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  #35786  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2016, 8:21 PM
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^ It would be pretty dope to see Goose Island become Chicago's version of Roosevelt Island

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  #35787  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2016, 9:17 PM
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^ That would rock, although RI has 2 subway stops as well as a cable car running into Manhattan.
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  #35788  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2016, 11:51 PM
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But what would be the point?

For a generation, Goose Island has been held out of the North Side frenzy, so it can provide affordable locations for warehousing and—theoretically—light manufacturing. It hasn't met all expectations, to be sure, but why now reward landowners who went against public policy by buying land in the hopes they'd eventually get the PMD rescinded? After two decades of working to make Goose Island accessible to truck traffic, why now abandon that and beef up transit to support residential towers?

Why should predictability in planning and land use be sacrificed just to get more highrises? Who thinks that is good for the city?
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  #35789  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2016, 1:47 AM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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The industrial nature of Goose Island already started to be abandoned a few years ago, if you didn't get the memo already. It has been transforming into a digital manufacturing/design innovation and high tech hub with places like DMDII, UI Labs, etc. Uber also has an office right outside of Goose Island on the NW end on North Avenue which is a Greenlight Hub (support center of sorts). A little north of there is a big site for redevelopment that used to be the city's fleet management center and of course who could forget the Finkl Steel site a little north of that.

I don't know if high rises are the answer, but suffice to say the types of people being employed at DMDII and UI Labs are not much different than your average tech worker downtown. If they had the choice of living nearby to their work if there was enough housing/things to do, they would do it. Guaranteed there is some demand on Goose Island now for higher density residential. If Goose Island gets more tenants like DMDII and UI Labs, and those other two big sites manage to attract some business then don't expect this to not have more residential.

Besides the fact, most of the new industrial/warehousing stuff in town is either along I-55 or further north along I-90/I-94 - not at Goose Island. It's been transforming for the last few years into something else and frankly it would be great to see it going as a high tech hub, but with residential, some restaurants, bars, etc too.
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  #35790  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2016, 1:56 AM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Downtown View Post
But what would be the point?

For a generation, Goose Island has been held out of the North Side frenzy, so it can provide affordable locations for warehousing and—theoretically—light manufacturing. It hasn't met all expectations, to be sure, but why now reward landowners who went against public policy by buying land in the hopes they'd eventually get the PMD rescinded? After two decades of working to make Goose Island accessible to truck traffic, why now abandon that and beef up transit to support residential towers?

Why should predictability in planning and land use be sacrificed just to get more highrises? Who thinks that is good for the city?
If there are jobs there, why not some residential nearby so people can walk to their jobs? It's not like there's a coal plant there
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  #35791  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2016, 5:15 AM
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^Because the possibility of developing residential will always push land values to the point that it's unaffordable for warehousing or manufacturing, as we're letting happen in Fulton Market and Pilsen, as already happened in River North and the West Loop and Canal-Roosevelt and the Ravenswood Corridor. The stuff in Bolingbrook is for distribution to the region; downtown needs a place nearby that support facilities—printers, records storage, delivery fleets, elevator repair, commercial laundries and food prep—can afford to locate.
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  #35792  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2016, 8:17 AM
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I don't see the point of dreaming about a gentrified Goose Island for a long time. There is tons of other space where clean / high-tech industrial, r&d, and of course residential can occur for the time being, such as about an entire 1 mile of the opposite bank of the river from North Ave down to Division and curving around to Halsted (tons of vacant lots, and Morton Salt is about to sell too) as well as the sprawling Freedom Center area. Then slightly north there's Finkl City or whatever it'll end up being dubbed. Plus, access to Goose Island rather sucks; you'd need to add lanes to both Division bridges (though admittedly some kind of reconstruction is planned anyway) and augment with other transport infrastructure.

I would definitely support evicting Waste Management and that rancid smelling garbage depot across the canal from Whole Foods. But, on the other hand, as Mr Downtown suggests, there likely doesn't exist another location it could be moved to that meets trash logistics requirements, which rather cements the case for keeping Goose Island as it is. The downtown area also benefits from FedEx's mega facility on Goose Island, as do the growing number of Amazon Prime Now app users drooling for drone deliveries of Ben & Jerry pints.
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  #35793  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2016, 2:48 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr Downtown View Post
^Because the possibility of developing residential will always push land values to the point that it's unaffordable for warehousing or manufacturing, as we're letting happen in Fulton Market and Pilsen, as already happened in River North and the West Loop and Canal-Roosevelt and the Ravenswood Corridor. The stuff in Bolingbrook is for distribution to the region; downtown needs a place nearby that support facilities—printers, records storage, delivery fleets, elevator repair, commercial laundries and food prep—can afford to locate.
1) You're confusing I-55 with the suburbs. There are places that have been popping up in Lower West Side (south of Pilsen) again, Brighton Park, etc. These are not much further, or sometimes any further, away from downtown than Goose Island is to downtown. Also, why does it need to be close to downtown? Being close to transportation hubs is more important for some of these companies than being close to a bunch of corporate offices. Even for something like Amazon Prime, to support a big city like Chicago they need multiple warehouses set up strategically around the area, not just on the north side.


2) According to my permit map, there was a new $31M freezer storage warehouse facility granted a permit in late April as well as a new $10M warehouse granted at the end of September both on Wood st just south of Blue Island. There were also another two warehouses granted permits (one in mid 2015 and the other in January 2016) just south of the train tracks around 33rd St between Pulaski and Cicero with a new trade school in between those. Also new cold storage in mid 2015 at 51st and Millard and 3 new heavy industry/warehousing buildings down in South Deering issued permits in September/October 2016. Also a warehouse issued a permit near Fort Knox Studios in September in Irving Park. Also I believe Nestle Professional Beverages got issued a permit for a big addition to their plant at 18th and Kilbourn either this year or last year.

That's basically 7 new warehouse permits issued in September/October for Chicago and none of them chose anywhere close to Goose Island - not to mention the ones from last year that were in the same boat.

Here's the scene from October for those two sites on Wood just south of Blue Island gearing up for 2 big new warehouses to be built on vacant land:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8474...7i13312!8i6656

3) The days of Goose Island being some wonderland of industrial/warehousing is most likely over or in 10-15 or 20 years will be. Maybe you missed the memo about DMDII and UI Labs, and Uber being a few hundred feet west of the island now. They're going to turn it into a digital "manufacturing" hub and high tech hub - and that doesn't mean what you probably think it does when they say "manufacturing hub." It already started a few years ago and there's no reason to believe it's all of a sudden going to attract a bunch of heavy industrial again, especially granted where a bunch of the warehouses from above have been permitted.

IF big parcels like Finkl Steel are going to change and residential put in there and what not, then we can probably expect Goose Island to be more susceptible to change.

Last edited by marothisu; Dec 19, 2016 at 3:11 PM.
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  #35794  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2016, 2:55 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Yeah I also don't see the point of developing Goose Island when it is surrounded on all sides by much more accessible development sites like the remains of Cabrini Green or the Elston Corridor.

Speaking of the NW side diagonal streets, can we all just reflect for a moment on how quickly the Kennedy is getting boxed in with urban development from Armitage to downtown? Between the Audi Dealership, apartment development next door, Midtown's bizarre expansion, and the Bully and Andrews office building, that corridor is really transforming. These are areas I never thought would ever progress beyond North/Clybornesque auto oriented crap (though Audi is obviously car oriented). I can actually see a day where driving into Chicago is an experience of driving through endless blocks of 3-5 floor buildings that come right up to the freeway. Like the city has healed around the wounds left by urban renewal with very little scare tissue remaining.
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  #35795  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2016, 6:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Downtown View Post
After two decades of working to make Goose Island accessible to truck traffic, why now abandon that and beef up transit to support residential towers?
What work was done to make Goose Island accessible to trucks? Division St bridges are still narrow and crumbling. New Halsted bridge was planned around bike lanes. North Ave bridge was replaced and widened, but it doesn't connect to Goose Island.
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  #35796  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2016, 7:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
What work was done to make Goose Island accessible to trucks? Division St bridges are still narrow and crumbling. New Halsted bridge was planned around bike lanes. North Ave bridge was replaced and widened, but it doesn't connect to Goose Island.
Speaking of which, has CDOT ever figured out what will happen with Divison Street? I remember seeing a plan to have 4 lanes. This might have been 5 years ago. I was in favor of a 3 lane (with center turn lane) configuration and buffered bike lanes. The center lane would be extra-wide for trucks. I figured it was the bridges holding everything up at the moment.
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  #35797  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2016, 7:31 PM
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I'm with Mr. Downtown here as well. Not only does it not make a modicum of economic or logistical sense, it also just doesn't seem at all likely that any kind of demand for high rises/skyscrapers in and around GI will occur for a few more cycles. We'll talk again in 2035 if manufacturing is dead, until then you use places for their intended purpose, especially(as Louis pointed out) other parts of town are already ready, willing, zoned, and able to be used for residential.
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  #35798  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2016, 7:45 PM
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Speaking of which, has CDOT ever figured out what will happen with Divison Street? I remember seeing a plan to have 4 lanes. This might have been 5 years ago. I was in favor of a 3 lane (with center turn lane) configuration and buffered bike lanes. The center lane would be extra-wide for trucks. I figured it was the bridges holding everything up at the moment.
Yeah, we haven't heard much from CDOT lately. Damen/Elston/Fullerton and the Western viaduct are wrapping up, I'm waiting to see what the next North Side project will be.

The temp bridge on Division bought them some time.

I would agree that 3 lanes should be enough. The bridges should be three lanes as well, with two lanes approaching the intersection at Halsted (and the reverse at Elston) and one lane leading away from those intersections. Make all the lanes wide enough for trucks, and provide barrier protection for bike lanes.
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  #35799  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2016, 7:46 PM
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it also just doesn't seem at all likely that any kind of demand for high rises/skyscrapers in and around GI will occur for a few more cycles.
Well sure, if we completely ignore the 3 nearby high rises built since 2012 (SoNo and New City).
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  #35800  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2016, 1:20 AM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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Originally Posted by Kumdogmillionaire View Post
I'm with Mr. Downtown here as well. Not only does it not make a modicum of economic or logistical sense, it also just doesn't seem at all likely that any kind of demand for high rises/skyscrapers in and around GI will occur for a few more cycles. We'll talk again in 2035 if manufacturing is dead, until then you use places for their intended purpose, especially(as Louis pointed out) other parts of town are already ready, willing, zoned, and able to be used for residential.
Manufacturers on average are not moving to Goose Island. The people looking at Goose Island and have moved there or are planning on it are really more of the local retail distribution like Amazon who is buying these properties strategically in the area because they need to be able to get goods from the warehouse to the consumer quickly. A company who might manufacture something on a more national scale is going to be close to either an airport or a rail yard. There are more strategic options available both in the city and suburbs for this that can save companies a lot of money but cutting down the number of miles per year they need to transport goods between the factory/warehouse and airport.

There have been companies like R2 who have been buying up buildings on Goose Island and some are slated for warehousing, but they also plan on turning some buildings into offices - like has already been done for places like UI Labs and nearby Uber. There has been something like 7 new constriction building permits for warehouses in the 2nd half of 2016 for Chicago and none are near Goose Island. The land elsewhere is cheap and depending on who the company is, it could be a lot more strategic to go elsewhere than Goose Island.

Here is an article from May 2015 though talking about what R2 is planning on GI about 1200 N North Branch:

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/reale...adds-to-gaggle
Quote:
Eventually, R2 plans to redevelop the warehouse structure into loft offices or warehouse space for a tenant needing close proximity to surrounding neighborhoods such as Lincoln Park and Bucktown, he said. For either use, the structure could be expanded or rebuilt to have about 375,000 square feet, Garrison said.

In recent deals elsewhere on the island, e-commerce giant Amazon.com recently leased a 51,970-square-foot warehouse at 1111 N. Cherry Ave., and men's clothing startup Trunk Club leased 170,000 square feet of distribution space at 930 W. Evergreen Ave. In the latter building, UI Labs also recently opened a federally funded digital manufacturing lab.

“There's been a great track record on Goose Island lately, and we're trying to figure out how to optimize that,” Garrison said.

R2 plans office developments on neighboring properties it bought at 934 N. Branch St. and 909 W. Bliss St. in separate 2014 deals for about $14.7 million combined.

Last edited by marothisu; Dec 20, 2016 at 3:44 AM.
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