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  #21  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2007, 3:57 AM
Plokoon11 Plokoon11 is offline
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600 feet i'm guessing.
     
     
  #22  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2007, 4:22 AM
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very nice AC- looking forward to looking at all this grand development. ah NJ is turning around quite nicely
     
     
  #23  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2007, 5:24 AM
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Atlantic City is on a roll. Here's an earlier thread for this one:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=137153
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  #24  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2007, 3:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Plokoon11 View Post
600 feet i'm guessing.
You guessed low. Each of the 710-foot towers will have 1,936 hotel rooms.
     
     
  #25  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2007, 8:05 PM
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Looks great. Good for Atlantic City if they continue to make cash off the ever-aging Baby Boomer population.
     
     
  #26  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2007, 9:47 PM
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When are the mgm project and this project going to begin construction?
     
     
  #27  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2007, 5:32 PM
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are they going to do something with museum pier?..the pier right in front of it.
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  #28  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2007, 5:42 PM
twicedead twicedead is offline
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When are the mgm project and this project going to begin construction?
Well Revel is starting construction later this month. It was recently approved so it's a go. MGM needs to go through the approvals process which moves pretty quickly ( I think Revel took 2-3 months), but never had a project like this. Once approved their timeline is up to them.

As far as the baby boomer comment. That's been the cash cow for AC for years and that's not going to change but the demo is skewing younger. Slots are down and table games are up. Al Martino and David Brenner have been replaced by Foo Fighters and Chris Rock at the venues.

Construction is next to tourism as the area's biggest industry. The amount of growth in the surrounding communities has been impressive. The labor is there.

I'll get some pictures soon as they start up. I have to go to the next door at the House of Blues for work a couple times a month.
     
     
  #29  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2007, 5:45 PM
Plokoon11 Plokoon11 is offline
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Amazing, can't wait to see Atlantic City next summer and see its skyline.
     
     
  #30  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2007, 7:53 PM
newboldphilly newboldphilly is offline
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Exit 166 now that's bennyland if i've ever heard of it.
Exit 100 here 'cept now i'm a benny too.

I love AC - and I don't even gamble.

AC had (and still has) an opporunity to integrate the casinos into the urban fabric much better than they have been. As it stands, the Borgata is the only casino you can't walk to.

To me, the future of AC is about being a casino town, a beach town, and a walkable, urban place all in one. It seems like, and i don't know if this is already the case but now is the time to focus on Atlantic Ave. in terms of shoring up the retail/restaurant and residential environment. It just screams at you from the Marina to Ventnor "condos, lofts, apartments, shops!" I think "the Walk" really dropped the ball there by not even leaving the option to build up.

And they keep dropping the ball with things like light rail. Instead of agreening to inter-island light rail they keep wanting to study light rail to the airport when all they have to do is build a new station for the commuter rail line they already have and run more frequent service between AC and Egg Harbor City. Or they talk about ridiculous, aerial tram BS. Or the jitney operators go nuts.

(OTOH, by one very conservative estimate, in 30-35 years the island should be completely inundated 2-3 times a year during major storms and it should be breached in 50 years. so i'm not sure how smart any major investments are. I'm in the planning field and no one ever wants to talk about global warming or energy insecurity)
     
     
  #31  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2007, 8:02 AM
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They are bussed into the city from parking areas out on the Atlantic City Expressway.
That's terrible. People should live close to where they work. Besides being more environmentally friendly, it cuts down on commuting times.

There are so many vacant lots inland just within a stone's throw from those casinos, they should build housing on them.
     
     
  #32  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2007, 2:26 PM
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That's terrible. People should live close to where they work. Besides being more environmentally friendly, it cuts down on commuting times.

There are so many vacant lots inland just within a stone's throw from those casinos, they should build housing on them.

Its actually more environmentally friendly the way they have it set up now.

Yes, they could build houses, but most of the employees don't want to live in AC. AC has alot of crime, the schools suck, and its a tourist spot. I would not want to live there, even if I did work there. Why live on a "residentially" crappy island when the mainland is so much nicer?

So instead of having everyone drive in and conjest the highways (only 2 major ones going into AC), they have them park and mass-commute on in.
     
     
  #33  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2007, 3:28 PM
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Originally Posted by newboldphilly View Post
Exit 166 now that's bennyland if i've ever heard of it.
Exit 100 here 'cept now i'm a benny too.

I love AC - and I don't even gamble.

AC had (and still has) an opporunity to integrate the casinos into the urban fabric much better than they have been. As it stands, the Borgata is the only casino you can't walk to.

To me, the future of AC is about being a casino town, a beach town, and a walkable, urban place all in one. It seems like, and i don't know if this is already the case but now is the time to focus on Atlantic Ave. in terms of shoring up the retail/restaurant and residential environment. It just screams at you from the Marina to Ventnor "condos, lofts, apartments, shops!" I think "the Walk" really dropped the ball there by not even leaving the option to build up.
Exit 100 here myself.

Well said about AC.
     
     
  #34  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2007, 3:32 PM
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Originally Posted by twicedead View Post
As far as the baby boomer comment. That's been the cash cow for AC for years and that's not going to change but the demo is skewing younger. Slots are down and table games are up. Al Martino and David Brenner have been replaced by Foo Fighters and Chris Rock at the venues.

Construction is next to tourism as the area's biggest industry. The amount of growth in the surrounding communities has been impressive. The labor is there.
More and more younger skewing bands are doing AC. There are enough venues around that the bands can find dates, and the mid-size venues can be filled easily by out of towners and the younger generation living in Ocean, Atlantic, and Cape May counties. Vegas skewed as a family destination for a while, and then found out it wasn't working. AC might be finding it's niche in the 17+ crowd. Only time will tell.
     
     
  #35  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2007, 3:46 PM
newboldphilly newboldphilly is offline
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Originally Posted by Thefigman View Post
Exit 100 here myself.

Well said about AC.
Really? To be fair i lived in a few places between Point Pleasant and Oceanport but Bradley Beach and Allenhurst were two of them.
     
     
  #36  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2007, 7:45 PM
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http://www.nj.com/business/times/ind...940.xml&coll=5

A.C. revels in plans for casino
New site's preliminary approval gets company closer to winning deal


November 08, 2007
BY JUDY DeHAVEN


It seems casino companies are always touting multibillion-dollar plans for Atlantic City.

But Revel Entertainment is the one putting the shovel in the ground. And it's doing so without the usual fanfare.

Yesterday, the company, headed by former Penn National chief operating officer Kevin DeSanctis and backed by Wall Street firm Morgan Stanley, gave the public its first peak at what Atlantic City's 12th and newest resort will look like as it went before the city's planning board for preliminary site approval of its project.

The drawings show two thin silver towers that will be the tallest in A.C., with an elevated podium in between, landscaped with greenery and lots of water. Atlantic City is, after all, a beach town, and Revel hopes to capitalize on that with cabanas, an indoor and outdoor pool and nightclubs overlooking and facing the beach. It also will have a private beach heated with fire pits during the winter.

City and state officials hope Revel's project will be the start of a $10 billion building boom that will include a $2 billion casino from Pinnacle Entertainment on the former Sands casino site and a $5 billion resort from MGM Mirage next to Borgata. A fourth, from Wally Barr, former Park Place Entertainment CEO, and Curtis Bashaw, former executive director of the Casino Reinvestment Development Authority, also is in the works next to Hilton.

"This is very significant for the city," A.C.'s Planning Director William Crane said in an interview after the meeting. "It's the next step up from Borgata. And it should be something that sets the bar a little higher in helping the city develop as a destination resort."

Borgata was the last new Atlantic City casino to open -- in July 2003.

The preliminary site plan approval allows Revel to start work on piles and foundations and was the first in a series it needs before it starts major construction. The company also expects to receive final approval of its redevelopment agreement with the city today.

But crews, which have already done prep work on the site, will start major construction without the usual dog-and-pony groundbreaking ceremony.


"We're very excited that we can start our foundations and footings, but at the same time, we have a long road ahead of us," DeSanctis said. "And there will be an appropriate milestone in which to really celebrate."

To be sure, some details are still being hammered out. Like the price tag. In recent months, DeSanctis said the casino would be in the $2 billion range. Yesterday, he said it was going to cost less than MGM Mirage's proposal but more than Pinnacle's.

Revel also needs project financing. Currently, the company is operating from interim financing provided by Morgan Stanley, although the privately held company has not divulged details. DeSanctis said he expects to go out for full project financing during the first quarter of 2008. He did not seem worried the turmoil of the credit markets would hurt his chances. And he said the resort's opening has been pushed up, to late 2010, from 2011.

The 20-acre site -- one of the largest contiguous plots in Atlantic City -- is next to Showboat along the Boardwalk. Crane, the planning director, said he was pleased to see Revel incorporated the beach into its Boardwalk entrance -- the opposite of what Boardwalk casinos did when they opened more than 20 years ago and designed the casinos to keep people inside gambling. Revel's resort will have 1,000 feet of beach frontage.

The casino -- a total of 150,000 square feet, smaller only than Bally's -- will have 40-foot ceilings with a mezzanine level. And while two towers with roughly 1,900 rooms each are planned, DeSanctis said the second may not be built initially but could come later.

As Atlantic City is trying to differentiate itself from slot parlors in neighboring states, Revel's plans also include a lot of non-gambling items, like shops, a 5,500-seat theater and a spa. DeSanctis said it was designed to be more of a resort with a casino than a traditional casino with a few restaurants and bars.

He said while conceptualizing the project, he thought of it as a big party room. Hence the company name, Revel.

"What are we trying to accomplish?" he asked. "The whole concept of having a party. And that's what revel means. (We wanted) to created a really great experience to make people say, 'Oh man, this is going to be fun.'"


More here:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=140941
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  #37  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2007, 3:53 PM
newboldphilly newboldphilly is offline
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For a city/metro if its size AC does have really high transit ridership.

I def. think AC has enough cachet now that it's ready to start doing a little more as far as residential construction is concerned. I think having light rail or at least some form of BRT connecting Brigantine with AC, Ventnor, Margate, and possibly Ocean City and definitely back to park'n'rides on the mainland - would get that kick-started.

As far as the schools go, most big cities have relatively shitty school systems (compared to the suburbs that surround them) and for the most part it's not people with kids that are filling up most downtowns - it's the bookend demographic. One of them, the baby-boomers, is the fastest growing segment of the population.

Anyway - a few pics from Atlantic Ave. and "the Walk" along Michigan Ave. (it connects the train station/convention center with the Boardwalk). It's not like it's some bombed out shell of a city and I think most people can see the potential.













the Walk outlet shops.
     
     
  #38  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2007, 7:12 PM
twicedead twicedead is offline
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[QUOTE=newboldphilly;3166624]For a city/metro if its size AC does have really high transit ridership.

I def. think AC has enough cachet now that it's ready to start doing a little more as far as residential construction is concerned. I think having light rail or at least some form of BRT connecting Brigantine with AC, Ventnor, Margate, and possibly Ocean City and definitely back to park'n'rides on the mainland - would get that kick-started.

As far as the schools go, most big cities have relatively shitty school systems (compared to the suburbs that surround them) and for the most part it's not people with kids that are filling up most downtowns - it's the bookend demographic. One of them, the baby-boomers, is the fastest growing segment of the population.

Anyway - a few pics from Atlantic Ave. and "the Walk" along Michigan Ave. (it connects the train station/convention center with the Boardwalk). It's not like it's some bombed out shell of a city and I think most people can see the potential.

QUOTE]


I have a house on the island and they used to have rail (trolly)service that went downbeach to Margate, Ventnor and Longport along Atlantic Ave and got rid of itback in the 70s I belive. I don't think you'll ever see that again. None of the mentioned towns even allow weekly rentals of the homes (which they did back then) only Seasonal so most of the people either live all year or are summer residents. Also there's no way Margate or Longport would allow it, it's just not in their nature. They don't even let the Jitney's which have to do a U-Turn in Ventnor. There is ample parking at the casinos and revel, MGM and Pinnacle will have designated lots for employees. Not to mention the bad blood between the two towns which are fighting over a bulkhead being built that's gotten really ugly.

NJ transit has a good bus program on the Island though that goes to the Casinos to Longport.

That being said there's no way any light rail will go to Ocean City just for the expense and the unwilliness the town is to spend public money. Getting them to agree to redoing the bridge was a tough process.

Did you snap any pics of the new Taj tower. That's going up quite fast.
     
     
  #39  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2007, 7:32 PM
twicedead twicedead is offline
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Originally Posted by LittleMike View Post
Its actually more environmentally friendly the way they have it set up now.

Yes, they could build houses, but most of the employees don't want to live in AC. AC has alot of crime, the schools suck, and its a tourist spot. I would not want to live there, even if I did work there. Why live on a "residentially" crappy island when the mainland is so much nicer?

So instead of having everyone drive in and conjest the highways (only 2 major ones going into AC), they have them park and mass-commute on in.
People don't want to live in AC and most people can't afford to live in Margate, Ventnor and Longport. The AC High School isn't even on the island anymore.

AC is working on their traffic patterns and will have the new traffic senstive lights being installed soon. The traffic on the AC expressway, Black Horse Pike and WHite Horse Pike is no where near as bad as it is on GSP once you get pass exit 7. Also there are discussing making Pacific Avenue one way to keep the traffic flowing (although the Jitney Assoc is strongly against this and they have political pull crazy enough)

AC still has tons of buildable land a few blocks inland in Ducktown and the Back Bay and I would disagree and say that the Walk is in the perfect location since that is where the train & bus terminals are and where the Convention Center is. Last week with the Teacher convention the stores along the Walk where mobbed. People walk from convention center to the casinos and AC would rather have them walk pass stores than residences. This isn't a chicken vs egg. You need to give people other reasons to come other than slot machines before you build more residences and that's what the plan is.

Some places like Bella Condos have had a tough time filling and if beach front condos can't sell why would anyone want to live at the AC Expressway exit where the walk is instead. Once the light rail comes in from the AC airport and NYC it'll be an even better location. People now take the train from Philly, Cherry Hill and Lindenwold just to shop.

You can't argue with the success of the Walk. Phase III is underway with more parking and more stores. Since it's opened two years ago only one store, London Fog, and one restaurant IHOP have closed and neither were good fits anway.
     
     
  #40  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2007, 5:35 AM
newboldphilly newboldphilly is offline
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Originally Posted by twicedead View Post
I have a house on the island and they used to have rail (trolly)service that went downbeach to Margate, Ventnor and Longport along Atlantic Ave and got rid of itback in the 70s I belive. I don't think you'll ever see that again. None of the mentioned towns even allow weekly rentals of the homes (which they did back then) only Seasonal so most of the people either live all year or are summer residents. Also there's no way Margate or Longport would allow it, it's just not in their nature. They don't even let the Jitney's which have to do a U-Turn in Ventnor. There is ample parking at the casinos and revel, MGM and Pinnacle will have designated lots for employees. Not to mention the bad blood between the two towns which are fighting over a bulkhead being built that's gotten really ugly . . .
municipalities in NJ don't pay for transit or for new transit services. The state vis-a-vis NJTransit picks up half the tab and the federal gov't usually picks up the other half. There are rare exceptions to the 50/50 split, one being the RiverLINE in Burlington Co.

As far as condos go . . . the condo market is bad right now pretty much every where. It's also that luxury anything in AC is fairly new, these things tend to snowball. AC's cachet is also relatively new (post-Borgata). The market right now is $200k to sub $500k. That's what should be on the market in AC right now not $750k and up units - but when you look in AC that's all you find. The top of the market and the bottom of the market and hardly anything between. The fact that AC is doing much better than Philly or anywhere else in NJ shows the strength of the market there.

People in Egg Harbor Township might not want to live in AC. People in Voorhees aren't deserting that town for Philly. The same goes with any city. They're not the target market.
     
     
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